Is Charisma and Game all just faking status?

[Onecirrus]

I’ve been contemplating what essentially charisma, pickup, and game actually are. Why do they work? Why does a woman’s brain respond to certain behaviors and dispositions but not others? Why do women even care about personality, what does personality have to do with genetics and reproduction? 
 

The conclusion I came to was that a woman needs some way to calculate a man’s social standing in the tribe. This capacity probably developed before verbal language, so it was more about emotions and vibes.

Why would a prehistoric man have low confidence or introversion? Probably because he is low status, he is weaker than the other men, he fears for his safety. He acts this way to protect himself so he isn’t killed or exiled. These behaviors convey to the woman that this man is not valuable to her survival, his own survival is uncertain. That could be bad for offspring so she ignores him, not that differently from how mares completely ignore all other males except the stallion in horses.

A man in high social standing is extroverted, confident, playful, because he is in good standing with the tribe, life is good, he has allies, resources, maybe even other women. These very explicit behaviors convey successful survival, and immediately trigger attraction.

Survival is absolutely guaranteed in modern societies, but this ancient mechanism is still in play. Women’s psychology is still analyzing men’s standing in the tribe, mostly ignoring them until one occasionally conveys behaviors associated with successful survival.

With all this in mind, all game and charisma is deception in a sense. Pretty much all men guarantee survival and successful offspring these days, but her ancient psychology doesn’t know that. If you don’t have looks, taking advantage of this is your only option to trigger attraction 

[Leo Gura]

The feminine likes to be lead and to follow playful energy and to feel strong emotions.

With pickup you are leading her to feel emotions, which most men cannot do. That's why it works. It also just works because you are actually talking to hundreds of women, which gives them a chance to know you even exist.

80% of game is just putting yourself in front of a woman so she knows you exist.

If you just talked to 100,000 women, 100 would sleep with you for no reason at all other than they were lonely, bored, horny -- and you happened to be the closest guy around.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[Onecirrus]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The feminine likes to be lead and to follow playful energy and to feel strong emotions.

With pickup you are leading her to feel emotions, which most men cannot do. That's why it works. It also just works because you are actually talking to hundreds of women, which gives them a chance to know you even exist.

80% of game is just putting yourself in front of a woman so she knows you exist.

If you just talked to 100,000 women, 100 would sleep with you for no reason at all other than they were lonely, bored, horny -- and you happened to be the closest guy around.

I was curious of the evolutionary reasons this would be the case. For whatever reason, strong emotions and playful feelings trigger reproductive drives in women, and I’d figured men of low genetic or social quality just aren’t capable of this, but good quality men are, or should be. Modernity is sort of collectively sabotaging modern men, inhibiting their ability to behave in ways that elicit strong emotions and arousal in women. And putting yourself out there with repulsive awkward qualities won’t attract any women, even in a pool of 100,000. 

[Leo Gura]

@Onecirrus Women are lead by their emotions because that's what's needed to raise healthy children. Women are attracted to leadership because without male leadership women and their children have no chance of surviving.

A woman is designed to follow a strong man. So their emotions reflect that.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[RawJudah]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The feminine likes to be lead and to follow playful energy and to feel strong emotions.

With pickup you are leading her to feel emotions, which most men cannot do. That's why it works. It also just works because you are actually talking to hundreds of women, which gives them a chance to know you even exist.

80% of game is just putting yourself in front of a woman so she knows you exist.

If you just talked to 100,000 women, 100 would sleep with you for no reason at all other than they were lonely, bored, horny -- and you happened to be the closest guy around.

Right… so who is going to approach 100,000 women? 
It seems like the whole pick-up and game stuff is purely for successful entrepreneurs who have the time to actually do that. 
Or can a normal dude go all out and do it? 

[Onecirrus]

@Leo Gura That’s sort of why I titled this post the way I did. Imagine your old pickup buddies and Jocko Willink in a club doing game, I think the PUA’s would outperform him. Jocko is objectively the stronger man, but women’s psychology would be convinced your pua buddies are the stronger man. That is what I mean when I say game “fakes” strength, or exaggerates it to a woman’s mind. Women easily fall for the appearance or illusion of strength. But I’m not trying to argue pickup isn’t valid.

It’s Kinda like how humans can trick mares into thinking they are the stallion of the herd, the mare can’t actually recognize the stallion objectively, it can only recognize behavior of it.

Edited June 19 by Onecirrus

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, RawJudah said:

Right… so who is going to approach 100,000 women?

Who needs to have sex with 100s of women?

I approached something like 4,000 women across about 3 years of total game. Got dozens of girls interested in me.

Quote

It seems like the whole pick-up and game stuff is purely for successful entrepreneurs who have the time to actually do that. 
Or can a normal dude go all out and do it? 

I met many friends in pickup who had normal 9-5 jobs.

I had friends who worked in project management, dentistry, sports medicine doctor, sales, marketing, engineering, accounting, commercial pilot, consulting.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Onecirrus said:

but women’s psychology would be convinced your pua buddies are the stronger man.

It's not that they would think a PUA is a stronger man. It's simply that the PUA creates hundreds more opportunities and has the skill needed to close those opportunities.

You can have dozens of girls interested in you but not have the skill to close. The skill to close is really what PUA is about. You have to know how to handle all the logistical problem. 90% of girls are lost simply from not handling logistics properly. The most jacked macho man can get girls talking to him, but he has no idea how to pull the girl to a bedroom.

PUA teaches you how to handle women, pragmatically. How to jiu-jitsu all their nonsense obstacles and excuses.

Unless you have years of experience, you cannot know how to pull girls consistently. It's like war. Unless you've been in combat you don't know how to handle war.

Edited June 19 by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

@Onecirrus They cant be bored or they mentally go insane. The woman literally needs a man or the woman would lose it. You dont see hermit woman because they are formed around society and need social interaction to fend off insanity. Nothing worse to a woman than a boring man even if he is super ultra hot because they can't survive there. They need a man to pay attention to them.

If you are abusive to your woman but you make her emotions go up and down they actually like that way more than someone who just sits there and does nothing.

This is why if all men ignored women women would have to change their gameplan because they need to be stimulated by their emotions way more than a man does.

Men are conned into these games because other men can't wait. 

The woman will come to you as a man, she has to by how her body is built. Men going to women is dead wrong and thats why men are sad and alone. They don't know how to play the game women want them to play, and they don't have to, but they are tricked into thinking they are the ones that need it more.

 

A woman would rather you abuse her then bore her. This is important.

If a woman says hunny I'm getting bored in this relationship, you are better off calling them a retard and starting a fight , then to say I don't know what to do and don't care of you want to keep them.

Edited June 19 by Hojo

[Natasha Tori Maru]

11 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You dont see hermit woman 

Hello, greetings, I am here to destroy your paradigm.

 

[Keryo Koffa]

22 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You dont see hermit woman because they are formed around society and need social interaction to fend off insanity.

8 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Hello, greetings, I am here to destroy your paradigm.

How well are you "fending off insanity"? 

[Hojo]

@Natasha Tori Maru A hermit talking in social media taking 100 selfies a day. New age hermit. Not real made up definition of a hermit.

 

A hermit would not paint its body for art thats purely social. Imagine a hermit painting its body and then sitting there. It would say why did I just do that.

A hermit dosent want to talk to people, a hermit stays away from people you are in your room reaching out at people right now.

Your paradigm is shattered now my is put back together.

Edited June 19 by Hojo

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Natasha Tori Maru A hermit talking in social media taking 100 selfies a day. New age hermit. Not real made up definition of a hermit.

 

A hermit would not paint its body for art thats purely social. Imagine a hermit painting its body and then sitting there. It would say why did I just do that.

A hermit dosent want to talk to people, a hermit stays away from people you are in your room reaching out at people right now.

Your paradigm is shattered now my is put back together.

That conversation got you really bent out of shape, didn't it?

Sometimes I apply body paint and just boot around in my apartment and don't leave. No images needed.

But here I am breaking your brain again... 

[Hojo]

@Natasha Tori Maru I'm just stating facts if you get offended then its true. Nothing i said was malicious I am just pointing out that what you said is like an AI prompter saying they are doing art. Its insulting to the word art. An AI artist can't do anything an artist can do and being a hermit is not easy.

You try to disprove what I say and shatter my paradigm I am saying its wrong. And another gaslight, I am not bent out of shape I am saying words calmly. I am picking at your ego thats why you read it as bent out of shape.

If you want to be a new age hermit then do it so am I but I would never claim I am a Hermit thats super dishonest to what the word means.

You know if someone threw your communication away you would go into society and try to meet people because without it is insanity.

Edited June 19 by Hojo

[Onecirrus]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not that they would think a PUA is a stronger man. It's simply that the PUA creates hundreds more opportunities and has the skill needed to close those opportunities.

You can have dozens of girls interested in you but not have the skill to close. The skill to close is really what PUA is about. You have to know how to handle all the logistical problem. 90% of girls are lost simply from not handling logistics properly. The most jacked macho man can get girls talking to him, but he has no idea how to pull the girl to a bedroom.

PUA teaches you how to handle women, pragmatically. How to jiu-jitsu all their nonsense obstacles and excuses.

Unless you have years of experience, you cannot know how to pull girls consistently. It's like war. Unless you've been in combat you don't know how to handle war.

Okay, that makes sense, closing is its own skill set. I wish I could afford to move to Vegas and practice pickup, but maybe it’s best I can’t because I would absolutely start a cult, I think I have a lot of red impulses

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Hojo

Just reminding you I was making a joke - it was you who escalated into serious territory.

Which is why I know it kicked the feet out from under you. 

[CARDOZZO]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Hello, greetings, I am here to destroy your paradigm.

Women who are here on the forum are 0.00001% 

They are not the average woman. 

How do you feel out there as you are? Knowing what you know as a woman is like a total shift.

You know about male psychology, spirituality, self-development, enlightenment, dating, PUA. 

I'm genuinely curious. 

@Emerald @Natasha Tori Maru @Princess Arabia

[Puer Aeternus]

5 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Women who are here on the forum are 0.00001%

Damn sir, thems a lotta zeros! 

Edited June 20 by Puer Aeternus

[Emerald]

24 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Women who are here on the forum are 0.00001% 

They are not the average woman. 

How do you feel out there as you are? Knowing what you know as a woman is like a total shift.

You know about male psychology, spirituality, self-development, enlightenment, dating, PUA. 

I'm genuinely curious. 

@Emerald @Natasha Tori Maru @Princess Arabia

Thank you for the compliment. But it's definitely not 0.00001%.

I have my own YouTube channel where I share topics that relate to psychology, spirituality, and conscious-related topics. 

And my audience is about 60% men and 40% women and spans over all adult age groups. (and some of this gender skew can be accounted for in that YouTube is a platform that has a larger male audience)

But I know plenty of highly conscious women and men of all ages who are interested in plumbing the depths of human consciousness... as my channel attracts them in. And I have made hundreds of connections with people over the past decade, since I've had my channel.

And I don't like this narrative around women on the forum here being such outliers, such that you believe that we function very differently from other women... especially in terms of dating/relationships/sexuality.

Similarly to how a man who's into these topics (like Leo) is going to have similar preferences to other men... we will have similar preferences to other women.

The main difference is that women who are interested in deep work might be able to articulate these preferences and feelings in more detail than most, as those that do inner work are usually better at describing their subjective experiences compared to those who don't do inner work.

But it would be hard for me to explain what it is to have a female perspective and engaging in these sorts of deeper processes and inquiries in such a short blurb. Much of it is identical to what men who are doing these processes experience as there is just the way that humans function while on the path.

But other things diverge pretty significantly with the more Feminine path... as it functions differently. And that's where it becomes difficult to describe, as that path is dark and mysterious.

And because the species-wide repression of the Feminine is a very deep human pattern that's gradually unraveling itself in unpredictable ways, doing inner work that pertains to the Masculine and Feminine is a bit like swimming the bottom of a murky salty lake with lots of little infected wounds and cuts all over your body.

So, the conscious re-integration of the Feminine as a Feminine being is a raw and sensitive experience... but the cultural tendency is to be constantly throwing jabs and arrows at you because everyone is trying to strip themselves of their Feminine side on some level because of many millennia of Feminine repression.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@CARDOZZO

Man it's just... it's deflating. I dunno how the other girls feel, but its like a knife to my heart when I see what men go through. 

The divide in understanding is like an ocean between continents. I lot of the issues with men being pilled can be dealt with by socialisation - which is essentially approaching as per Leo's advice. But my take is focused on boundaries and how you handle this as a man. How it relates to attraction.

I have some controversial opinions (come at me with the pitchforks) but I feel like the fracture of the family system and parents divorcing really messes up men (women too). Typically, young boys end up with just the mother as a parent. This can go sideways as mothers can teach boys to tip-toe around women's feelings. The masculine parent is there to show the children boundaries. What they should and shouldn't tolerate. When to take action. That they need to not fear women, to know their boundaries and call it when women behave poorly (and they do, they can emotionally savage a guy, leading to the guy pretzelling himself into what they want, betraying his boundaries). If you add in a nice dash of scarcity mindset - that fear of losing a women is further inhibiting men, now your fucken TERRIFIED of calling out anything with women. You self cuck. Modern feminism is also to blame - the backlash is a lot of men feel like their dicks are in a vice. Fearing to stand up for themselves in a healthy, holistic and self sovereign & respectful way. Feminism has been great, we all benefit from it, but the fallout is men losing their traditional identities (women too, another topic). Men and women are still working out this new identity shitfight. 

Back to boundaries.

So you, as a man, give EVERYTHING to a women. You violate your own boundaries. And the women senses this imbalance. She senses some power over you - there is a loss of respect. Out the door with respect, in comes disrespect leading to contempt. Then any sort of connection goes down the toilet. She wants to know you are someone not to be messed with, that she can't smash your boundaries down. Its not about controlling her, its about teaching others what you will and won't tolerate. This communicates POWER. This is attractive. Lovely female moths to a flame.

You can have charisma and game. That's the fun attraction phase. But you have to drop that when you show a person your truth.

As a woman to a man, my advice is: know yourself. Know your boundaries - TEACH others how to treat you. Unfortunately, you have to school others in what you will tolerate and what you won't. This is a healthy structure of truth in a relationship that can open the doorway to intimacy, trust, and prolonged sexual attraction. Your boundaries are your personal truth. If you don't do this, some dick is gonna come along and walk all over you.

This rap on boundaries and how they are about YOU, is where people get messed up. They think they need to be a jerk to attract women. No. Its being kind, but firm. Not nice, kind. Big difference. No fear. You know who you are and what you want. That's admirable. That's why, again, Leo raps on life purpose and focusing on that. Attraction is the by-product. You aren't going to approach women - LIFE - even, with a scarcity mindset, if you get this right.

I like to help men (my whole reason for being on this forum is to help), but you are correct @CARDOZZO in that I feel I am limited in assistance due to being too a-typical. As a women, that is.

I don't think I addressed the OP so well, but this is my take on the patterns I see. There are tons more but I have to go back to work now ... lol 

Edited June 20 by Natasha Tori Maru