Israel launches attack on Iran

[PurpleTree]

32 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

👍

[Twentyfirst]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Those places where they kill you and your family if you try to scape, or where the women have prohibited go in the street, etc 

Where the hell are these places except in your programmed colonialist mind?

Stop being obsessed with other countries way of doing things. Why do you care?

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

Where the hell are these places except in your programmed colonialist mind?

Stop being obsessed with other countries way of doing things. Why do you care?

They are humans, it's like my neighborg rape their kids, if I can I would stop him. If I could i would stop the Taliban abusing women, or Kim jong un enjailing a whole country 

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Where the hell are these places except in your programmed colonialist mind?

Stop being obsessed with other countries way of doing things. Why do you care?

For example, I care about this, it's absolutely shit

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJ4hxJkqTyJ/?igsh=Njdtc29yZmpqY2J6

[saif2]

@Breakingthewall How do you free people from their oppressive governments? The united states does not do that well. Iraq for instance was sent back a hundred years after the west intervened in their affairs. Oppressed women in the middle east, for the most part do not know an alternative life style, any positive change can be brought about gently bit by bit, not by bombing the shit out of oppressive regimes, this move is oppressive in itself.

 

[PurpleTree]

It’s Maga civil war out here because of Israel/Iran/US

Dave Smith vs Ben Shapiro and Trump

Trump vs Tucker and Tulsi

Tucker vs Ted Cruz

Candace and Bannon also involved 

and so on.

 

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, saif2 said:

@Breakingthewall How do you free people from their oppressive governments? The united states does not do that well. Iraq for instance was sent back a hundred years after the west intervened in their affairs. Oppressed women in the middle east, for the most part do not know an alternative life style, any positive change can be brought about gently bit by bit, not by bombing the shit out of oppressive regimes, this move is oppressive in itself.

 

They don't, they bomb them until they are broken because they don't consider black and brown people as equals.

I used to be under the assumption you are, but its not about a dumb misguided gesture, its about control. 

The drive is no different to Russia, no different to China. Always control. Cue someone telling me all the reasons for the control from X below.

Edited June 19 by BlueOak

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

They are humans, it's like my neighborg rape their kids, if I can I would stop him. If I could i would stop the Taliban abusing women, or Kim jong un enjailing a whole country 

The issue is that this whole policing the world thing has already proven to fail so many times. America needs to evolve into a new system that focuses on America first and America only. If Ted Cruz doesn't even know the population of Iran what makes him think he can do a better job governing them that the actual leadership there?

Edited June 19 by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Wilhelm44]

 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

Tbh, Israel is more and more acting like a loose cannon, heavily destabilising the whole region. Before it was the Palestinian Genocide, then it attacked Lebanon, now it's attacking Iran. Textbook example of toxic Blue, ultranationalist ideology and collective madness affecting the whole society. It's appalling that nothing is done against it.

Also, good point from Bad Empanada on why Iran must have nukes:

 

 

 

[PurpleTree]

5 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

 

I guess we’ll see how China will react when Japan, S.Korea, Philippines, Taiwan get nukes.

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I guess we’ll see how China will react when Japan, S.Korea, Philippines, Taiwan get nukes.

Hopefully they don't get involved in this one though.

[zazen]

10 hours ago, saif2 said:

@Breakingthewall How do you free people from their oppressive governments? The united states does not do that well. Iraq for instance was sent back a hundred years after the west intervened in their affairs. Oppressed women in the middle east, for the most part do not know an alternative life style, any positive change can be brought about gently bit by bit, not by bombing the shit out of oppressive regimes, this move is oppressive in itself.

 

Like you said, change happens slowly and needs to happen organically on a peoples own timeline and according to their own customs and culture. Last year Pezeshkian was voted in who is a moderate reformist if I'm not mistaken. And we can see the change on the streets:

The West should have let Iran integrate into the global economy instead of strangling it for decades. That wealth and development would speed up change by itself. War, economic strangulation and instability aren't the conditions for social progress to happen - but in fact the opposite.

Groups with hard line stances take up and hold power during hard times. Like that whole hard times creates strong men cycle - they are in charge during conditions of survival. Hard times gets your hard liners.

The West think they can bomb change into place through a shock and awe campaign - which isn't even about change on a social level but is a moral cover for the interests of power. Otherwise they wouldn't be supporting Saudi Arabia all these decades. They act like their freedom bombs are going to blow the hijabs off or some bullshit.

A longer video showing Tehran (ignore the clickbait thumbnail) :

It looks cleaner and safer than most ''wealthy'' capitals (NYC, London, Paris).

Edited June 19 by zazen

[saif2]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

They don't, they bomb them until they are broken because they don't consider black and brown people as equals.

I used to be under the assumption you are, but its not about a dumb misguided gesture, its about control. 

The drive is no different to Russia, no different to China. Always control. Cue someone telling me all the reasons for the control from X below.

Yes, it might be a desire to control others, but I don't think it has to do with race. The west seems to me largely at the modernist stage of development. I am thinking that at this stage there is little reflection on societal norms and constructs, so they become absolute, so when they see a country like Iran they are appalled by it and they don't understand it, so out of this misunderstanding, demonization happens and the rest follows. This explains why western countries are serious supporters of Israel, they can relate to their views of reality.

 

[PurpleTree]

27 minutes ago, saif2 said:

This explains why western countries are serious supporters of Israel, they can relate to their views of reality.

 

I think it’s a mix.

The holocaust which there’s a lot of footage from and people feel bad for.

Many Israelis have European roots and history.

Israel is “democratic” with free press lgbt rights and so on.

Israel has good tech and science.

Often the goals of US, UK, Israel align. In terms of western dominance.

and the west in some ways has been in conflict for a long time with let’s say Islam. Ottoman empire, Jerusalem. Even the Greeks and the Persians already went at it bc.

and so on.

But i think it’s slowly changing.

Bibi and his bois went too far. The people had enough of it. 
At some point they are just a liability because of terrorism, bad relations with many countries, refugees and so on. It’s diminishing returns.

Some countries like Germany will probably never change their tune because of the holocaust.

But others do, Spain, Ireland etc.

I think now even many republicans will turn their backs on Israel because they feel “betrayed” in a way for the forever wars and so on. And in a way Israel becomes a scapegoat for US conflicts which the US can blame itself honestly.

Edited June 19 by PurpleTree

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

The issue is that this whole policing the world thing has already proven to fail so many times. America needs to evolve into a new system that focuses on America first and America only. If Ted Cruz doesn't even know the population of Iran what makes him think he can do a better job governing them that the actual leadership there?

It's obvious that the US's motivation for expanding democracy and justice is simply an excuse to expand its sphere of influence, but perhaps you agree that regimes like Korea, Afghanistan, or Iran restrict freedom to intolerable levels.

Now, everyone thinks Israel is an abusive aggressor, and in great part, that's true. But on the other hand, Iran has been advocating for decades the disappearance of the state of Israel and hatred of the US as an essential principle. Perhaps this is justified for you, but then there's no need to be surprised when there's war if your rhetoric is violent at its core.

[Twentyfirst]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's obvious that the US's motivation for expanding democracy and justice is simply an excuse to expand its sphere of influence, but perhaps you agree that regimes like Korea, Afghanistan, or Iran restrict freedom to intolerable levels.

I just think freedom is a higher value for some than it is for others. Maybe for others family is most important and freedom comes secondary. Another thing would be the definition of freedom. Is it freedom to be able to drink until you get alcohol poisoning? Or is it freedom to be protected from that by not being able to drink at all so you can be free to do other things in life?

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Now, everyone thinks Israel is an abusive aggressor, and in great part, that's true. But on the other hand, Iran has been advocating for decades the disappearance of the state of Israel and hatred of the US as an essential principle. Perhaps this is justified for you, but then there's no need to be surprised when there's war if your rhetoric is violent at its core.

They were negotiating terms and then Israel attacked. Who is really the one who wants to see the other disappear? It doesn't hurt anybody if Iran has bad things to say about the US (hatred that didn't come out of anywhere but because they support Israel). Stick n stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me. But this war will hurt everybody on both sides

I just thought Americans were ready to take care of their own and get out of debt since they elected Trump because he campaigned on no wars but it seems they are as eager as before

[Puer Aeternus]

36 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's obvious that the US's motivation for expanding democracy and justice is simply an excuse to expand its sphere of influence, but perhaps you agree that regimes like Korea, Afghanistan, or Iran restrict freedom to intolerable levels.

Mate

Come on.

You're partly right but also partly drinking the kool aid.

It's true the U.S. is trying to expand its sphere of influence. No favors are without strings!

But they're expanding democracy and justice? 

Yikes. You know how many dictators and authoritarians that they've propped up? Rulers robbing their country blind and doing NOTHING for their people, that they've put cash in the hands of.

Maybe Iran wouldn't have quote on quote intolerable levels of freedom if the U.S. hadn't overthrown their democracy back in the day.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Mate

Come on.

You're partly right but also partly drinking the kool aid.

It's true the U.S. is trying to expand its sphere of influence. No favors are without strings!

But they're expanding democracy and justice? 

Yikes. You know how many dictators and authoritarians that they've propped up? Rulers robbing their country blind and doing NOTHING for their people, that they've put cash in the hands of.

Maybe Iran wouldn't have quote on quote intolerable levels of freedom if the U.S. hadn't overthrown their democracy back in the day.

Yea the US supported many right wing dictatorships and they support the Saudis and so on. It’s just the either you’re with us or against us thing. Which makes sense the US has interests to protect and so on. But then others have different interests.