Atheist to New Age to Jesus

[Spiral Wizard]

Very different perspective to what I’m used to. I’ve seen a few people here and there, people with a lot of experiance in new age spirituality, psychedelics, eastern philosophy, etc. realize it’s twisted or unfulfilling and turn to Christianity / Jesus as a more pure spirituality (the first guy is responsible for making Dr Joe Dispenza famous and has been deep into the whole industry for 13 years).

I’m taking this seriously because it is so opposed to my epistemic convictions. Even if it’s not true, such an opposed perspective can shine light on my shadows/blind spots as it looks at me from ‘the opposite side’. 

What do you think?
Without dismissing it, genuinely consider, could it be true that Jesus is legit and a truer path through this 3 dimensional reality? 
Then once you’ve genuinely considered this, from an as unbiased perspective as possible, what deeper dynamics do you see at play here? 

 

Edited June 9 by Spiral Wizard

[Schizophonia]

I also know several person in this position. 

[kbone]

45 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Very different perspective to what I’m used to. I’ve seen a few people here and there, people with a lot of experiance in new age spirituality, psychedelics, eastern philosophy, etc. realize it’s twisted or unfulfilling and turn to Christianity / Jesus as a more pure spirituality (the first guy is responsible for making Dr Joe Dispenza famous and has been deep into the whole industry for 13 years).

I’m taking this seriously because it is so opposed to my epistemic convictions. Even if it’s not true, such an opposed perspective can shine light on my shadows/blind spots as it looks at me from ‘the opposite side’. 

What do you think?
Without dismissing it, genuinely consider, could it be true that Jesus is legit and a truer path through this 3 dimensional reality? 
Then once you’ve genuinely considered this, from an as unbiased perspective as possible, what deeper dynamics do you see at play here? 

 

Don't have time (or maybe even the patience, hehe, we'll see) to listen to even the whole first one, but enough to hear the first few misconceptions. 

If Jesus the person did exist around 2000 years ago, one will never actually know, much less whether or not he was god-realized. So, in essence, what does it matter? But yeah, I getcha, given what one gnossises, it may sound quite self-serving or dubious. 

In how this mind is informed, the story of Jesus is not so much about that historical figure or person, but more about YOU. Can you die psychologically before the body dies? The key to the story is the crucifixion, which basically is the surrender of the self into Wholeness. Because mind/ego want to exist as separate volitional entity, it is the honest, persistent inquiry that draws the mind and its illusory master kicking and screaming (i.e., suffering), closer and closer to its own psychological death. With grace, the death as a separate volitional entity brings about the 'rebirth' into Life as Wholeness..... THIS, right Here, right NOW. The previous master, aka self/mind, are seen for what they are: senses of existence, a shapeshifting mask to be worn in the various contexts of the drama of life playing out, and a tool to be used effectively in the world as it is appearing. I'll leave it at that for now.

 

"Be still, and know that I Am God" ~ Psalm 46:10 (usually preached as a dualistic world view in which one must bow down to a skydaddy, which might be useful for a while, when the ego is full on delusional)

"Most assuredly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I AM." ~Jesus in John 8:58 (preached in much the same way as above)

"I and the Father are one" ~Jesus in John 10:30 (getting the hint yet?)

 

wave/ocean  --- a metaphor

Movement (Consciousness) within Stillness (Awareness)    --- as simplification that can be realized, not just 'believed'

The mind as a movement within Mind. -----An idealist take

The movement of Life is God's dream   ----another metaphor

 

Much of the wording in the Bible was eventually either unintentionally mischaracterized/misunderstood/mis-translated and/or intentionally distorted to flush Truth. After all, SELF Realization and/or TRUTH Realization are so rare, who is going to make a concerted effort to bring down a massive church empire? Many have tried, but there are many MANY more seekers and believers wielding all kinds of ignorance to water down and obfuscate the simplicity.

Taking a look at the first 2-300 years of Christianity might reveal a whole story of how the Bible/Church came to be (empire needs a belief to rally around, and to possibly control the masses after a long, intense period of upheaval), or even the practices that were prevalent at the time (hint: there was likely a lot of drugs being used by many of 'religious practitioners' of the time --> a la Eleusinian Mysteries, Bes Cult, Bronze Age cults of Dionysus, etc). It was a wild world around the Mediterranean, into the Levant, and even out in the lands of the Persians, Buddhists, Hindus, and Taoists.... Silk Road. Fact is, even the greatest Biblical scholars can't find a whole lot of common ground, so the historicity tends to have some devils in the details, to be sure. It is interesting, though. Bart Ehrman comes to mind.

And here we are, still hanging out in the named 21st Century, carrying on the same discussions on the internet, the new and improved Silk Road. Far out. Some are still waiting for their chosen saviour. Some others are piddling with psychedelics to meet god 'him/herself', maybe get some cool insight, or perhaps think they are tapping into 'more Consciousness', and all the rest. Yet others, having gotten a glimpse, believe they are the chosen one to deliver humankind to god's greener pasture for the chosen few who have chosen to believe the new self-ordained priest. While far fewer others will settle for nothing but Truth itself (I know, the word gets bandied around a lot, as in my truth, more truth, other truths, etc etc ... no problem, but I only use it for somenothing specific).

Gotta go. 

[Hojo]

The sheer amount of people that say Jesus saved them should be put into consideration on wether or not the spirit actually exists. I have seen many people say things about Jesus saving them from new age or witchcraft. But none of them explain what happens or say anything intelligent about their experiences. And all the experiences involve other people and money. They are all people who went way super far into new age and were reiki healing and doing psychic stuff and then somehow Jesus comes, but how do you know its Jesus? Like the woman said she was meditating with a buddha statue and then she felt something in front her that was giving her infinite unconditional love, somehow shes not losing it and she automatically assumes its Jesus for no reason. If its your first time encountering Jesus how do you know the qualia is that of Jesus? Maybe its a demon, maybe its Buddha, maybe its some other diety. And if you were to receive infinite unconditional love from a being you wouldn't be able to just sit there, you would be rolling around screaming.

When I awaken it felt like the same thing with no person there but it felt like a being was telling me something to unlock karma. I wouldnt automatically say it was Jesus and it gave no idea to me that it was Jesus. The woman gave no evidence in her interview about meeting Jesus, that the being gave any indication that it was Jesus. She just said it was Jesus.

I could make a video about my awakening and say Jesus saved me in the exact same way,even when I was given no indication it was Jesus, I could just say it was Jesus for no reason, but that would make me a liar. Leo or anyone else that awaken could say it was Jesus who awakened them for no reason.

Maybe all Christians are being awakened by Buddha and they are just calling it Jesus. even tho it never actually says it is?

Maybe all their reiki healing is paying off and something happens, and they fuck it up by randomly making up that it was Jesus and not their own energy. They dont ask these questions to themselves and it makes me not totally believe them. These are basic questions.

Like you take time to learn working with body energy to make special things happen, and then something special happens ,and you just ignore everything you just did and stop?

If you never do new age stuff and then get into it, and that makes you experience Jesus, why would you stop doing it and assume it was evil? Whats Jesus saving you from looking behind your eyeballs? How do they know the new age stuff didnt make Jesus come to them?

Here's their logical thought process

I never saw Jesus I didnt believe, I was doing drugs, I saw Jesus on drugs, he is real I believe, The drugs are evil.

Where did Jesus come from, the evil?

Edited June 9 by Hojo

[integral]

This is the trap of not being able to think for yourself.

I watched through both of them and in both cases they are heavily relying on teachings they learn externally that they strongly have a deep memorization of, memorizing everything in the new age community but unfortunately they never discovered the next level because they were never exposed to it.

Because they're so reliance on memorization of what externally people have told them and no self discovery on their own of course the natural progression outside of new age will then be religion.

They are seeking to fill the spiritual hole that can't be filled with new age or achievement and unfortunately religion was what they found.

You have to go back to first principles when you hit the wall NOT look for more external sources.

The second girl hit the limits of new age and then just replaced her beliefs with religion ideology. It's so absurd.

She was seduced by the vibe of the church and the energy.. omfg man... 

"The devil will do anything to keep you from knowing the truth"... if only she understood what she was saying, its so painful... She interprets literally.

Her biggest criticism is that the new age was too independent " master of your own reality, you are god" when really it wasn't independent enough she had to go all the way and unlock the full degree of ridiculous self deception keeping her from truth. 

Edited June 9 by integral

[Princess Arabia]

For me, it was religion, then nothing then spirituality, then me, now shooting for nothing again but with an edge of spirituality and me, so that pretty much boils down to the spirituality of nothing. Capeesh!!

[Spiral Wizard]

28 minutes ago, integral said:

This is the trap of not being able to think for yourself.

I watched through both of them and in both cases they are heavily relying on teachings they learn externally that they strongly have a deep memorization of, memorizing everything in the new age community but unfortunately they never discovered the next level because they were never exposed to it.

Because they're so reliance on memorization of what externally people have told them and no self discovery on their own of course the natural progression outside of new age will then be religion.

They are seeking to fill the spiritual hole that can't be filled with new age or achievement and unfortunately religion was what they found.

You have to go back to first principles when you hit the wall NOT look for more external sources.

The second girl hit the limits of new age and then just replaced her beliefs with religion ideology. It's so absurd.

She was seduced by the vibe of the church and the energy.. omfg man... 

"The devil will do anything to keep you from knowing the truth"... if only she understood what she was saying, its so painful... She interprets literally.

Interesting! Appreciate you watching those videos. I watched a few more videos from the guy and he said he had a genuine Kundalini awakening. Would that count as self discovery? 

I will say though that if he couldn’t find the genuineness in new age, then he definitely wasn’t serious enough or lucky enough to find a guide who can lead him deep enough. 

I agree that they are not being super rigorous in their questioning and epistemology. That being said, the guy makes some points worth considering. 

Here he talks about one of the worlds most famous satanist basically saying that new age originated out of satanism (minute 28). He also makes the greater point that the essential difference between new age and following Jesus is that new age is a rebellion against God just like the devil is a rebellion/the first sin because it wants to be God by themselves rather than serving Him. Not oneness with God but service. He says new ages want to be God, whereas following Jesus means submitting oneself to God & becoming Godlike but not God Himself. I myself had a recent experiance of waking up as God/consciousness but I still find this interesting to consider as there is room for conclusions and deceptions to sneak in. Could he be right and aiming to realizes oneself as God is satanic? Almost true but just twisted enough to not be the truth? 
I can see all the arguments for oneness with God, and that’s all I’ve been perusing for the last 5+ years but still, very interesting to genuinely consider this:

Here he talks about kundalini: 

 

[kbone]

New Age mind stuff is neither new, nor will it last an age.

Hopefully it is slick enough to slip on, stumble, and drop it all, giving one a taste of infinite potentiality, but you won't be there if it is authentically apprehended. 

[integral]

@Spiral Wizard Anton Wisbiski transitioned from red to blue. Thats about it.

He was reciting all of this green new age stuff from the position of red/orange - achievement/power seeking.

There's a lot of red surrounding spiritual communities and engaging with it and reciting all the new age stuff.

The level of development needed to figure out new age insights independently (not through rote memorization) is at least green.

If you take someone at green and isolate them they will eventually figure out all of the new age on their own, independently.

Anton Wisbiski now generates blue insights.

45 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

He says new ages want to be God, whereas following Jesus means submitting oneself to God & becoming Godlike but not God Himself. I myself had a recent experiance of waking up as God/consciousness but I still find this interesting to consider as there is room for conclusions and deceptions to sneak in.

It depends on how developed you are to make sense of spiritual experiences.

Anyone even my dog can have a spiritual experience they then interpret it from their level of development.

A blue person interprets every spiritual experience as Jesus.

45 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

new age originated out of satanism (minute 28)

He transitioned from red to blue, all his insights are now gonna be blue.

He's crying hysterically because he's realizing the ridiculous degree of selfish bullshit and devilry he was committing, then he condemns and judges his past self through the lens of blue.

As you become more conscious you just stop judging the past version of yourself, but if he develops this ability while still in blue, which is possible, it's gonna be one kind of convoluted coping mechanism and deeply rooted into some kind of religious emotion

Edited June 9 by integral

[integral]

48 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Could he be right and aiming to realizes oneself as God is satanic?

No this guy has no idea what's going on... lol

What is satanic?

The deception of the devil is that you are deceiving yourself, the devil is a metaphor for YOU, its the veil pulled over your eyes prevents you from seeing the truth.

It is all of your own corruption, your perspective is deeply corrupt and when you lift this corruption you see truth and you see God everywhere.

But you have to reach at least construct awareness and deconstruction to start figuring this stuff out and Anton is nowhere near that level.

He thinks good and bad are laws of the universe are real he doesn't even understand relativity.

Edited June 9 by integral

[Grateful Dead]

I haven't watched the videos, but I guess I'm one of those people. Before I was caught up in it myself, I thought, like most people here, that anyone on such a path was simply deluded. But then the teachings of Jesus spoke to me and touched me like nothing else. So I trusted the path and followed Jesus, and through that, I was able to correct and transform my mind.

[Jodistrict]

The New Age is shallow.  That also includes most of the non duality stuff.  Many have dumped neo advaita because when the shit hits the fan trite phrases like “waking up from the dream” and “I am God” prove laughably useless.  Real religion addresses the core of one’s being and provides support in the toughest of times.  It’s not intellectual bullshit.

Edited June 9 by Jodistrict

[Spiral Wizard]

16 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

I haven't watched the videos, but I guess I'm one of those people. Before I was caught up in it myself, I thought, like most people here, that anyone on such a path was simply deluded. But then the teachings of Jesus spoke to me and touched me like nothing else. So I trusted the path and followed Jesus, and through that, I was able to correct and transform my mind.

I’m curious to hear more if you’d like to share!

[Spiral Wizard]

12 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

The New Age is shallow.  That also includes most of the non duality stuff.  Many have dumped neo advaita because when the shit hits the fan trite phrases like “waking up from the dream” and “I am God” prove laughably useless.  Real religion addresses the core of one’s being and provides support in the toughest of times.  It’s not intellectual bullshit.

Also interesting point! Do you mind sharing examples of how religion offers this depth of stability?  

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

Real religion addresses the core of one’s being and provides support in the toughest of times.  It’s not intellectual bullshit.

Religion provides beliefs while presenting them as direct knowledge, which creates a confidence that discourages questioning those beliefs. It doesn't understand that beliefs are not direct.

If, by "real", you mean that those religions awaken you or make you have direct realizations, then it's correct to say that they, or the people who follow them, will all be deluded forever.

Edited June 9 by Nemra

[Jodistrict]

42 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Religion provides beliefs while presenting them as direct knowledge, which creates a confidence that discourages questioning those beliefs. It doesn't understand that beliefs are not direct.

If, by "real", you mean that those religions awaken you or make you have direct realizations, then it's correct to say that they, or the people who follow them, will all be deluded forever.

The beliefs are a method to focus the mind and abandon delusion.  The Hindus understand this with Bakhti yoga.  

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Grateful Dead said:

I haven't watched the videos, but I guess I'm one of those people. Before I was caught up in it myself, I thought, like most people here, that anyone on such a path was simply deluded. But then the teachings of Jesus spoke to me and touched me like nothing else. So I trusted the path and followed Jesus, and through that, I was able to correct and transform my mind.

How does your view differ from non-duality?

Edited June 9 by zurew

[Nemra]

27 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

The beliefs are a method to focus the mind and abandon delusion.  The Hindus understand this with Bakhti yoga.  

Belief as a method for realizing truth is one of the most delicious delusions.

People don't understand that beliefs are not direct and cannot lead to truth.

Beliefs are assumptions about reality, and they make you convinced that you are correct. If there is an assumption, there will be a question for that assumption. Not questioning that assumption is what makes beliefs unsuitable and delusional for realizing truth.

Edited June 9 by Nemra

[Jodistrict]

17 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Belief as a method for realizing truth is one of the most delicious delusions.

People don't understand that beliefs are not direct and cannot lead to truth.

Beliefs are assumptions about reality, and they make you convinced that you are correct. If there is an assumption, there will be a question for that assumption. Not questioning that assumption is what makes beliefs unsuitable and delusional for realizing truth.

And those are your beliefs.   The beliefs that are delusional are the ones that you actually think are true.  

 

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Also interesting point! Do you mind sharing examples of how religion offers this depth of stability?  

I found a pdf copy of Swami Vivekananda's Bhakti yoga.   This may help.  

https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Bhakti-Yoga-by-Swami-Vivekananda.pdf