Why Women Prefer Betas

[RendHeaven]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

my daughter would be the hottest girl possible

[Schizophonia]

43 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Miguel1 If I ever had a daughter (I won't, but fun hypothetical) 

Why not.

Edited June 10 by Schizophonia

[RendHeaven]

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Why not.

@Schizophonia The world we're headed for is not very daughter-friendly.

I'm particularly concerned about the rapid evolution of social media and AI integration into culture. We haven't seen anything yet - and we take for granted that we've witnessed a pre-iphone lifestyle.

Parenting a healthy daughter (or son) in 2030+ will be an all-out war over her mind. You will have to shield her from the manipulations of modern technology 24/7 as if her life depends on it, without making her feel oppressed or mistrusted. Raising her to have a healthy relationship to her phone (or AI companion glasses or whatever) will be a non-trivial task and a full-time commitment.

It will NOT be sufficient to be a classic "good father" with "present energy" while you still try to go out and earn money on your own time.

You have no idea the parasitic tendrils her personal device will implant in her while you're not on guard.

If you restrict her, she will rebel and find a way around your embargo. If you lecture her, she will grow afraid and crippled. If you isolate her, she will hate you. If you're completely hands-off or leave her to her own devices, she will be molded into a frivolous, hollow addict. If you nail everything right and guide her gracefully through the onslaught of technologic parasites, she will still be alone amongst her peers in her preserved humanity. It will be nearly impossible for her to find genuine friends her age outside of the digital matrix (unless you go out of your way to network with like-minded parents before even bringing her into this world)

This is already our present situation in 2025, PRIOR to the oncoming AI hyperreality vortex which will make the internet with all of its dopamine traps indistinguishable from 3D life (coming VERY fast).

Parenting healthy kids will never get easier. The difficulty and commitment curve is about to spike indefinitely. I'm not saying it's totally hopeless - just that you have to be very sober about assessing what you're signing up for.

Of course, some people will still continue to pop kids (albeit at a declining rate). But the masses are not concerned about the health or sovereignty of their children, so we should not model our behavior after them. A lot of my intelligent spiritual friends today still have vague naive fantasies of "having kids one day," but respectfully, they have no idea the monsters they're up against. If they have kids at this rate, those kids will be swallowed by the system, like all other kids, as they will most likely fail to bulletproof their walled garden.

By "bulletproofing your walled garden," I mean:

• finding an attractive partner with significant values-alignment and longevity vows (good luck lol)
• having the sexual confidence and experience to keep or replace that partner
• having enough money to retire on the spot if you must (constantly working will be incompatible with raising sovereign kids in the age of AI)
• moving to a strategic country/city or town that min-maxes good inputs and bad inputs
• having a strong LOCAL community/network of like-minded parents in that strategic location
• both partners must purge 99% of their neuroses, traumas, shadows, control impulses, etc. You want to build the exterior shell of the walled garden with grueling, uncompromising containment - but you want to be completely hands-off for the play and learning and growth that happens within the garden
• be prepared to homeschool or hire designated tutors
• know that this garden is training wheels and will not last
• be emotionally prepared to lose your kids despite your best efforts. You are burning a LOT of time, energy, and material resources for a temporary container which may or may not work.

There's probably so much more that I'm forgetting. This is just a quick list.

After many months of brutal contemplation, I've come to peace with never having any kids. In some sense you could accuse me of fleeing in the face of a difficult challenge (which I won't deny), but you have to do a personalized cost-benefit analysis. Or, you could accuse me of overthinking (i.e. "it's not that big of a deal bro"), but if that's your argument, you're simply wrong and your kids born in 2030+ will be utterly fucked and enslaved by ChatGPT-69omni

If I'm going to be a father, I refuse to half-ass it. For me to be a father, so many prerequisites would have to be in place to maximize the odds of not unwittingly messing up my kids and feeding them to the system like sacrificial fodder. For the foreseeable future, I've got my hands full with building a raft big enough for myself. I myself am not totally immune to the hypnotic vortex of hyperreality - what chance does my vulnerable tiny daughter have?

This dilemma is unique to 2025+. I would not have had these concerns back in the 2010s.

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

To be fair each man is different but I’ll speak about myself on this one. I am an ambitious intellectual who wants to explore the world and build a strong community across it that withstands the pressure of the world. I’ve spent my 20s working on this and throughout it I’ve connected with plenty of women along that time but since I was not who I am meant to be yet there was fundamentally not much for me to offer them beyond temporary companionship and for me to entertain them with interesting ideas that haven’t materialized yet. 

I’ve also met a lot of women that live in their feminine and want to flow in life and not be constrained by the drudgery of our system and it’s something I can offer them but not in my current form. 

I also don’t think you understand the concept of transactionality in relationships. In its lowest form it’s about people using eachother shallowly but in its evolved form it’s about people being able to share their deepest gifts and existence with eachother. 

Being an alpha man is partly about being sexually attractive but it’s mostly about finding freedom and purpose for yourself and that is not an easy process. To link it back to the Aubrey Marcus thread the reason those women are into him is not so much because he’s a stud physically but because he’s built a life of freedom, adventure and purpose for himself and is not like 99% of men who clock in clock out go home to enjoy the few hours of freedom they buy for themselves each week. 

This is exactly the issue Emerald and many others have been pointing out.

The problem with the “high-value man” narrative is that once you finally do reach that dream life full of adventure and freedom, these spaces don’t teach you how to commit to and care for a woman. Instead, they encourage you to leverage your success, charm, and influence to take advantage of her, because now you “deserve it,” right? You’ve made it, so why not indulge?

That mindset destroys any chance of a real connection or mutual trust. It creates a cycle where women become distrustful, guarded, or disconnected from intimacy. So they either:

• Opt out of dating altogether,
• Become transactional, gold-digger, sugar babies (“what lifestyle can he offer me? I only care about his money and looks”),
• Or stay in relationships where they’re devalued or cheated on, and eventually become bitter, nagging, less feminine, receptive, vulnerable, sweet, more avoidant, ruining the marriage/relationship for both him and her.

That bitterness feeds right back into male resentment, and the cycle continues. Nobody wins.

People like Aubrey Marcus represent this exact contradiction. They're like the ultra-rich who, instead of sharing knowledge or investing well-earned money to create better systems that would help future generations escape poverty more easily, choose to exploit others through grifting (creating cheap, low-quality courses, cryptocurrency, and NFT scams) and continue extracting resources from the most desperate and vulnerable people. In the same way, "high-value" men exploit their status, fame, charisma, and money to lure women into infatuation and love, only to cheat on them, use them for sex, status boosts, or free domestic labor.

This is the fundamental issue that gets missed. As long as power is seen as a tool to exploit the weaker or less desirable, nothing will change. You can’t criticize women for being “shallow” or “ran through” when the male ideal being sold is to abuse status once you have it. If you idealize power without responsibility, you perpetuate the same system you claim to hate. The only way to build something real is to break that cycle, not become a more effective predator inside of it.

That's why even "nice guys" aren't that desirable in practice, you never know if the guy actually cares about you or if he's just someone who would act the exact same way once he gets a taste of attention, money, and status, then ditch you for 9s and 10s.

The beta and alpha dynamics are really the same for both guys and girls. Guys will get with a less attractive woman while they "upgrade" their life, then ditch her for models, or get a midlife crisis in their 40s and delude themselves that some 20-year-old is into them for "who they are and their life wisdom" rather than their cash, then abandon their wives and children. Some guys will even get with a woman they find unattractive and never tell her or show her they don't care about her at all. But since they're lazy and can't upgrade to something better, they settle and become forever bitter, growing avoidant and critical of the women they've chosen. They hate the reflection of their own inadequacy that she directly mirrors back to them. Instead of taking self-responsibility, they despise her and women overall. In this dynamic, the "ugly" girlfriend or wife is the beta, and the lusted-after Instagram model is the alpha.

Again, I've yet to see these male spaces actually discuss genuine love or how to build deep relationships. There's no guidance on how to resist lusting after other women or how to truly nourish the relationship you have. Most of the advice I've encountered boils down to: "Become an alpha, and once you do, you can do whatever you want. You're at the top now, you deserve multiple women who will work for you, submit to you, and handle all the house labor and emotional heavy lifting. What is she going to do? You're so high-value, of course, she won't leave. You're the king, G."

This mindset perpetuates a toxic cycle. Men who haven't "made it" yet keep chasing this ideal. Those who achieve it end up traumatizing and controlling women. Those who don't become increasingly bitter and resentful, spreading incel ideology while settling for partners they constantly compare to TikTok models and OnlyFans creators, destroying any chance at genuine love.

Meanwhile, women keep getting hurt by this pattern. They either withdraw from dating entirely, become more materialistic and guarded (which frustrates men further), or embrace the "independent boss babe" persona. Men then resent this defensive response, which makes them even more hostile toward women, causing women to become even more guarded. The cycle feeds itself endlessly.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It breaks my heart to read what the men here write.

All their current values - when time has ravaged them to a husk of themselves - will be erased. 

Age my friends, age. It will get you, and it will change you.

Yes, aging will be a difficult transition for anyone who thinks this way.

[Schizophonia]

@RendHeaven I want to have several children, i would say 2 to 5 to give a large scale (according to my income, the will of my wife etc).

I don't even see the point of living at long term without having at least one, for me hapiness is in construction a of a tomorrow; taking care (and dominate ?) an buisness, a country, a wife and then logically children.

I don't see many alternatives, which is one of the reasons why I've completely stopped being interested in nutrition; it's simply a useless libidinal investment.

Hapiness = responsabilities, at least in my system.

I don't know what the world will look like, so this is a comment to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would be careful with new technologies; they will be very limited.
My children will find other, less-brained children to socialize with, and they have brains, so they'll be able to forgive me and even find it very good. Children, or at least teenagers, have brains too.

If you're at least a little normal with your children, there's nothing to complain about.

And even if they suffer, well, that's life. There are times when they risk being massacred and tortured; now it's other challenges.
If we project cowardice onto our potential children, well, yes, it's better not to, but well, I trust my sperm, eheh.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

@EmeraldI'm sure you're not but don't pay those naysayers any mind. Some cannot handle when a women steps in and represent. Stay in your place please and let us men lead and show you the way. It's so obvious. If a particular point of yours was being challenged or pointed out and disagreed with respectfully, it would show a completely different type of energy, but when you're being attacked for everything you've said and nasty words thrown at you it's so obviously just a general attempt to put you down or silence you. People don't realize that energy has a voice and sometimes is not what you say but how you say it and the energy you carry across the board at all times. It wears on your internet face. No matter what you say and how you say it some men will always have objections simply because you're a woman and no other reason.

I appreciate the encouragement. And that's definitely true. 

It's just frustrating because it's like watching that one character in Austin Powers who sees the car coming from a mile away but just stays in the same spot screaming for over a minute until he's actually run over.

And I'm like the person watching the movie and being like, "DUDE! Get out of the way!!! You're about to get run over!!!"

But I just have to learn to let them get run over. It's just a shame about all the internet propaganda making it so much harder for men to connect with women and other human beings in general.

What's funny about it is that I'm sharing more realistic perspectives that are like, "Hey guys. Women can like you as a person without you needing to be the most Masculine guy on the planet."

And they're like, "NO! I'm a lowly beta simp who is below most women's consideration. And women are only settling for me because they can't get Chad."

[AION]

@Schizophonia Putting so much pressure on children will fuck them up. I hope you are just joking but knowing you you aren’t. They should be allowed to grow and blossom according to who they are. 

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

And even if they suffer, well, that's life. There are times when they risk being massacred and tortured; now it's other challenges.
If we project cowardice onto our potential children, well, yes, it's better not to, but well, I trust my sperm, eheh.

It's not a matter of acute suffering might happen to your kids like kinetic warfare or disease

the looming threat is that your kids will be domesticated into psychological dependency frameworks and lifelong identities in covert ways that neither you nor they will have any awareness of. This is not something you can fight. You and I are already being molded right now insofar as we are merely communicating through a screen.

The reason we get away with it is because we were not drowning in this technology at age 2.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, aurum said:

Do you want to know the truth?

Be honest with me.

Just say what you're going to say.

You don't have to get dramatic about it.

[Someone here]

Haven't watched the vid in OP or  read the replies but Emerald you can't understand the relativity of platonic pipe dreams utterly made up fantastical concepts like "Beta " vs "Alpha"?

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Haven't watched the vid in OP or  read the replies but Emerald you can't understand the relativity of platonic pipe dreams utterly made up fantastical concepts like "Beta " vs "Alpha"?

I was only using the term "beta" because it's what Dr. K used... and it is a common inter-male slang used to indicate some status between men.

But there are no such categories in actuality. 

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, AION said:

@Schizophonia Putting so much pressure on children will fuck them up. I hope you are just joking but knowing you you aren’t. They should be allowed to grow and blossom according to who they are. 

I'm not going to push them too hard, just limit certain things.

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

It's not a matter of acute suffering might happen to your kids like kinetic warfare or disease

Living in middle age isn't just acute suffering, there was suffering and pressure all the time.

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

the looming threat is that your kids will be domesticated into psychological dependency frameworks and lifelong identities in covert ways that neither you nor they will have any awareness of. This is not something you can fight. You and I are already being molded right now insofar as we are merely communicating through a screen.

Ofc you can.

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

The reason we get away with it is because we were not drowning in this technology at age 2.

Yes, but by being paranoid, we're not starting anything, starting with children.
I say it'll be fun, we'll find solutions.

 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But there are no such categories in actuality

Thank you. 

[RendHeaven]

21 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

@RendHeaven I want to have several children, i would say 2 to 5 to give a large scale (according to my income, the will of my wife etc).

I don't even see the point of living at long term without having at least one, for me hapiness is in construction a of a tomorrow; taking care (and dominate ?) an buisness, a country, a wife and then logically children.

@SchizophoniaI support that for you since you seem sincere.

Just make sure to put extra thought and time into the curated environment that you will be holding for your kids.

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes, but by being paranoid, we're not starting anything, starting with children.
I say it'll be fun, we'll find solutions.

You have the right attitude, but you're severely underestimating the reality-warping power of AI. You really can't fathom how much the world is about to change, and how much the digital world will bleed into and override day to day life.

Don't conflate caution with paranoia. I have no fear in me at all. I am looking the beast of fatherhood straight in the eye and rationally concluding that it's not worth it for me personally to go slay it given the terrain. Others will come to their own personalized conclusions.

As for me, I have other monsters I'd rather slay, such as my own personal goals and societal impact.

If you think you can do all of the above, then you are a herculean specimen indeed.

Edited June 10 by RendHeaven
typo

[Emerald]

48 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This is exactly the issue Emerald and many others have been pointing out.

The problem with the “high-value man” narrative is that once you finally do reach that dream life full of adventure and freedom, these spaces don’t teach you how to commit to and care for a woman. Instead, they encourage you to leverage your success, charm, and influence to take advantage of her, because now you “deserve it,” right? You’ve made it, so why not indulge?

That mindset destroys any chance of a real connection or mutual trust. It creates a cycle where women become distrustful, guarded, or disconnected from intimacy. So they either:

• Opt out of dating altogether,
• Become transactional, gold-digger, sugar babies (“what lifestyle can he offer me? I only care about his money and looks”),
• Or stay in relationships where they’re devalued or cheated on, and eventually become bitter, nagging, less feminine, receptive, vulnerable, sweet, more avoidant, ruining the marriage/relationship for both him and her.

That bitterness feeds right back into male resentment, and the cycle continues. Nobody wins.

People like Aubrey Marcus represent this exact contradiction. They're like the ultra-rich who, instead of sharing knowledge or investing well-earned money to create better systems that would help future generations escape poverty more easily, choose to exploit others through grifting (creating cheap, low-quality courses, cryptocurrency, and NFT scams) and continue extracting resources from the most desperate and vulnerable people. In the same way, "high-value" men exploit their status, fame, charisma, and money to lure women into infatuation and love, only to cheat on them, use them for sex, status boosts, or free domestic labor.

This is the fundamental issue that gets missed. As long as power is seen as a tool to exploit the weaker or less desirable, nothing will change. You can’t criticize women for being “shallow” or “ran through” when the male ideal being sold is to abuse status once you have it. If you idealize power without responsibility, you perpetuate the same system you claim to hate. The only way to build something real is to break that cycle, not become a more effective predator inside of it.

That's why even "nice guys" aren't that desirable in practice, you never know if the guy actually cares about you or if he's just someone who would act the exact same way once he gets a taste of attention, money, and status, then ditch you for 9s and 10s.

The beta and alpha dynamics are really the same for both guys and girls. Guys will get with a less attractive woman while they "upgrade" their life, then ditch her for models, or get a midlife crisis in their 40s and delude themselves that some 20-year-old is into them for "who they are and their life wisdom" rather than their cash, then abandon their wives and children. Some guys will even get with a woman they find unattractive and never tell her or show her they don't care about her at all. But since they're lazy and can't upgrade to something better, they settle and become forever bitter, growing avoidant and critical of the women they've chosen. They hate the reflection of their own inadequacy that she directly mirrors back to them. Instead of taking self-responsibility, they despise her and women overall. In this dynamic, the "ugly" girlfriend or wife is the beta, and the lusted-after Instagram model is the alpha.

Again, I've yet to see these male spaces actually discuss genuine love or how to build deep relationships. There's no guidance on how to resist lusting after other women or how to truly nourish the relationship you have. Most of the advice I've encountered boils down to: "Become an alpha, and once you do, you can do whatever you want. You're at the top now, you deserve multiple women who will work for you, submit to you, and handle all the house labor and emotional heavy lifting. What is she going to do? You're so high-value, of course, she won't leave. You're the king, G."

This mindset perpetuates a toxic cycle. Men who haven't "made it" yet keep chasing this ideal. Those who achieve it end up traumatizing and controlling women. Those who don't become increasingly bitter and resentful, spreading incel ideology while settling for partners they constantly compare to TikTok models and OnlyFans creators, destroying any chance at genuine love.

Meanwhile, women keep getting hurt by this pattern. They either withdraw from dating entirely, become more materialistic and guarded (which frustrates men further), or embrace the "independent boss babe" persona. Men then resent this defensive response, which makes them even more hostile toward women, causing women to become even more guarded. The cycle feeds itself endlessly.

This is a perfect encapsulation of the anti-social snare that so many men are caught up in now-a-days.

There's always been these patterns, of course.

But now-a-days, you have young men being stunted in their social development because they get hit by this kind of propaganda before they ever get a chance to have a real human connection with their female peers.

And it has a really degenerative effect on the fabric of society.

[RendHeaven]

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Living in middle age isn't just acute suffering, there was suffering and pressure all the time.

12 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Ofc you can.

@Schizophonia suffering is not the issue. the issue is the extent to which your kids get warped and bent without your willing consent. What's coming is unlike anything we've ever seen in history. Since the dawn of humanity until now, parental guardians + the culture of local communities were the primary influence on children. In the age of AI, for the first time ever, your influence will be secondary. Algorithms will RULE them, unless you literally ban devices (but don't expect that to end well if they have IRL friends). Do not overlook this.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I'm pleased my comment forced some contemplation. You should be questioning these beliefs.

B - E - L - I - E - F  - S

Trying to surgically cerebralise love is further castratring yourself from understanding. Being is the way.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This is exactly the issue Emerald and many others have been pointing out.

The problem with the “high-value man” narrative is that once you finally do reach that dream life full of adventure and freedom, these spaces don’t teach you how to commit to and care for a woman. Instead, they encourage you to leverage your success, charm, and influence to take advantage of her, because now you “deserve it,” right? You’ve made it, so why not indulge?

That mindset destroys any chance of a real connection or mutual trust. It creates a cycle where women become distrustful, guarded, or disconnected from intimacy. So they either:

• Opt out of dating altogether,
• Become transactional, gold-digger, sugar babies (“what lifestyle can he offer me? I only care about his money and looks”),
• Or stay in relationships where they’re devalued or cheated on, and eventually become bitter, nagging, less feminine, receptive, vulnerable, sweet, more avoidant, ruining the marriage/relationship for both him and her.

That bitterness feeds right back into male resentment, and the cycle continues. Nobody wins.

People like Aubrey Marcus represent this exact contradiction. They're like the ultra-rich who, instead of sharing knowledge or investing well-earned money to create better systems that would help future generations escape poverty more easily, choose to exploit others through grifting (creating cheap, low-quality courses, cryptocurrency, and NFT scams) and continue extracting resources from the most desperate and vulnerable people. In the same way, "high-value" men exploit their status, fame, charisma, and money to lure women into infatuation and love, only to cheat on them, use them for sex, status boosts, or free domestic labor.

This is the fundamental issue that gets missed. As long as power is seen as a tool to exploit the weaker or less desirable, nothing will change. You can’t criticize women for being “shallow” or “ran through” when the male ideal being sold is to abuse status once you have it. If you idealize power without responsibility, you perpetuate the same system you claim to hate. The only way to build something real is to break that cycle, not become a more effective predator inside of it.

That's why even "nice guys" aren't that desirable in practice, you never know if the guy actually cares about you or if he's just someone who would act the exact same way once he gets a taste of attention, money, and status, then ditch you for 9s and 10s.

The beta and alpha dynamics are really the same for both guys and girls. Guys will get with a less attractive woman while they "upgrade" their life, then ditch her for models, or get a midlife crisis in their 40s and delude themselves that some 20-year-old is into them for "who they are and their life wisdom" rather than their cash, then abandon their wives and children. Some guys will even get with a woman they find unattractive and never tell her or show her they don't care about her at all. But since they're lazy and can't upgrade to something better, they settle and become forever bitter, growing avoidant and critical of the women they've chosen. They hate the reflection of their own inadequacy that she directly mirrors back to them. Instead of taking self-responsibility, they despise her and women overall. In this dynamic, the "ugly" girlfriend or wife is the beta, and the lusted-after Instagram model is the alpha.

Again, I've yet to see these male spaces actually discuss genuine love or how to build deep relationships. There's no guidance on how to resist lusting after other women or how to truly nourish the relationship you have. Most of the advice I've encountered boils down to: "Become an alpha, and once you do, you can do whatever you want. You're at the top now, you deserve multiple women who will work for you, submit to you, and handle all the house labor and emotional heavy lifting. What is she going to do? You're so high-value, of course, she won't leave. You're the king, G."

This mindset perpetuates a toxic cycle. Men who haven't "made it" yet keep chasing this ideal. Those who achieve it end up traumatizing and controlling women. Those who don't become increasingly bitter and resentful, spreading incel ideology while settling for partners they constantly compare to TikTok models and OnlyFans creators, destroying any chance at genuine love.

Meanwhile, women keep getting hurt by this pattern. They either withdraw from dating entirely, become more materialistic and guarded (which frustrates men further), or embrace the "independent boss babe" persona. Men then resent this defensive response, which makes them even more hostile toward women, causing women to become even more guarded. The cycle feeds itself endlessly.

Hell yeah 😁

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

3 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

@EmeraldI'm sure you're not but don't pay those naysayers any mind. Some cannot handle when a women steps in and represent. Stay in your place please and let us men lead and show you the way. It's so obvious. If a particular point of yours was being challenged or pointed out and disagreed with respectfully, it would show a completely different type of energy, but when you're being attacked for everything you've said and nasty words thrown at you it's so obviously just a general attempt to put you down or silence you. People don't realize that energy has a voice and sometimes is not what you say but how you say it and the energy you carry across the board at all times. It wears on your internet face. No matter what you say and how you say it some men will always have objections simply because you're a woman and no other reason.

Yes, everything you say is correct, and you are absolutely good