Psychedelic Self-Deception

[Schizophonia]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The guy is Turkish from a remote province close siria. Researching him, I discovered that while he was a councilman, he expropriated land from poor families with the help of his police connections, threatening to buy it for a fraction of the real price, taking advantage of his privileged position.

I saw him a few months ago in a trial with his son. I winked at him and he bowed his head. The prosecutor is asking for nine years in prison. I made a will stating that if anything happened to me, the trial would continue through someone else, and I sent it to him in case he had any... definitive ideas. He's a complete son of a bitch who would kill you for money without hesitation. 

But who knows, maybe he does for his family, and for him he's a fighter who does what must be done. 

Most of people find me pleasant and more "pure" than average people and still i absolutely don't care about eating meat everyday, exploiting workers by buying an iphone instead of a more ethic brand of phone etcetc.

I am worst that your guy, because of me many animals are regularly killed and exploited in a filthy way; not becaus i'm a sadistic son of a bitch, but because it just doesn't fit into my concerns.

Most of the time "bad" actions are just ignorance.

 

In any case, if you considered him a saint, it was because he gave you positive feelings.

Edited June 1 by Schizophonia

[Breakingthewall]

37 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

any case, if you considered him a saint, it was because he gave you positive feelings.

Yes because he's a professional scammer and I was bit more idiot than I am now. Idiocy is something by default, little by little with experience you learn, but it's a long process. The main obstacle is that everyone of us feel that is extremely intuitive and accurate and see very deep. Maybe we have watched too many movies and we believed them in a subconscious way, then reality is very different 

Anyway, now that I remember, first time I met that guy and his brother I hated them a lot just in 5 minutes, then I convinced myself about they were good, because I want to believe it . 

Edited June 1 by Breakingthewall

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes because he's a professional scammer and I was bit more idiot than I am now. Idiocy is something by default, little by little with experience you learn, but it's a long process. The main obstacle is that everyone of us feel that is extremely intuitive and accurate and see very deep. Maybe we have watched too many movies and we believed them in a subconscious way, then reality is very different 

Anyway, now that I remember, first time I met that guy and his brother I hated them a lot just in 5 minutes, then I convinced myself about they were good, because I want to believe it . 

So why did you think he was a saint during your trip ?

What were the pieces of the puzzle.

Edited June 1 by Schizophonia

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

So why did you think it was a saint during your trip ?

What were the pieces of the puzzle.

I don't know, just a feeling. But thinking it deeply, at the end this thing was much better for me for many reasons, if weren't for this guy I would lost a lot not in material way but let's say dignity, so who knows, maybe my intuition was accurate after all. Butterfly effects are imposible to know before it happens, our only guidance is intuition after all

[Ananta Ananda]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-deception still happens on 5-MeO.

My soulmate thing was on 5-MeO.

5-MeO won't save you from self-deception if you aren't very careful.

I think I had a similar situation once. What happened to you? Unless it’s too personal to get into. 

[LambdaDelta]

Psychedelics are merely tools, no different than using a hammer on a nail, or taking a car to drive to the next city over. If you only ever travel by car you become fat, lazy, and dependent like Americans; but if you stubbornly insist on walking no matter what, don't be surprised when others make more progress in less time. Treat them as sacred medicine and you become some idiot ritualistic shaman; too flippantly and you'll break your fingers with a misplaced hammer swing.

There are times to take a long, steady stroll, carefully observing and enjoying the surroundings, and there are times to floor the gas and blitz at 250kmph. Screwing a bolt manually may teach you patience and resourcefulness, so it's valuable to do so occasionally, but when a wrench is available it would be silly to dismiss it as the devil's instrument.

Personally I hardly use psychedelics anymore, lately I've been postponing a trip multiple times in a row. Partly out of caution, at this time I can't have something too radical potentially disrupting my human life, but moreso because I've done so much of them and learned everything there is to know (the technical aspect) that my mind has been permanently altered, immense insights come to me sober simply through contemplation and dreams. As such, a trip would only serve to seal the deal on everything I've already interconnected, and feel it very straightforwardly in my being.

The phase where psychedelics are thought of as the ultimate answer has passed a year ago for me; it was filled with many a risk, but instrumental to what I am now. Some people never grow out of it though, they get stuck on fractal holarchies this, meta-meta that. A rather advanced and unique self-deception to be sure, and true in a sense since everything is permitted within Consciousness, but ultimately it doesn't reach the heart of God. Others denounce psychs as chemicals that produce temporary hallucinations which cannot be 'true' awakenings; or they try them once, experience a terrifying trip and never come back, but that's an issue of purity of their mind, the substance has nothing to do with it. An ugly soul will be shown its reflection amplified a hundredfold and recoil in horror.

Then we're left with those that have done psychedelics a decent amount, got a varying degree of results, and decided to go back to more traditional paths like yoga and meditation. That's fine if it works better for them, but the reasoning is hardly ever entirely truthful, you can easily spot shades of fear in it. Psychedelics are way more prone to self-deception? True, but what of it? The solution is not to abandon psychedelics, it's to train your mind to avoid falling into such a trap.

Lastly, the delusions can get wickedly twisted. You may have an experience so true that it is absolutely unbelievable, such a thing couldn't possibly be the case; so you gaslight yourself into thinking that that was a delusion, until you verify it enough times that denial is no longer tenable. To misclassify truth as a self-deception is one of the hardest self-deceptions to overcome. 

Edited June 1 by LambdaDelta

[Aaron p]

Reply to op:

Yeah so it's a bit funny. Psycs reveal reality for what it is absolutely, but this can easily distort the relative domain (I mean that's kinda how it works, but even after you come back from a trip the psychedelic can loosen your mind and make you less socially calibrated).

The idea that psychedelics have little to no risk and you can just safely ingest them at any point...is a complete and direct delusion. Anything with that amount of power must be handled with care and extreme strategy and planning.

[Leo Gura]

Self-deception before psychedelics, self-deception after psychedelics.

Self-deception always and forever.

[Eskilon]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-deception before psychedelics, self-deception after psychedelics.

Self-deception always and forever.

Seems like you found your true love

Congrats

[PurpleTree]

3 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Reply to op:

Yeah so it's a bit funny. Psycs reveal reality for what it is absolutely, but this can easily distort the relative domain (I mean that's kinda how it works, but even after you come back from a trip the psychedelic can loosen your mind and make you less socially calibrated).

The idea that psychedelics have little to no risk and you can just safely ingest them at any point...is a complete and direct delusion. Anything with that amount of power must be handled with care and extreme strategy and planning.

Yea but what is even "socially calibrated“?

What is even society?

Trying to fit into society is in a way suffering. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

@PurpleTree Unless you plan to live completely off the grid, making food, generating electricity, and defending yourself from wild animals in the jungle, then some level of social cooperation is essential for survival. Society, while far from perfect, is still what supports us. Yes, it could be much better, but it beats the alternative of being a naked man alone in the woods with no WiFi and a lion eyeing you for lunch! 

Edited Tuesday at 03:44 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[Nemra]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-deception before psychedelics, self-deception after psychedelics.

Self-deception always and forever.

Absolute deception.

I like the idea of presenting your psychedelic deceptions for a newbie like myself. Of course, the ones you feel more comfortable sharing with.

I understand that mine will be different, but understanding the mindset could be helpful.

[Nemra]

11 hours ago, Nemra said:

I like the idea of presenting your psychedelic deceptions for a newbie like myself. Of course, the ones you feel more comfortable sharing with.

I understand that mine will be different, but understanding the mindset could be helpful.

@Leo Gura, what do you say?

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, what do you say?

You guys are like hungry wolves, salivating in the corner for Leo to spill his self-deceptions.

Edited Tuesday at 11:01 PM by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are like hungry wolves, salivating in the corner for Leo to spill his self-deceptions.

@Leo Gura, of course!

We wants it, we needs it.

Edited Tuesday at 11:14 PM by Nemra

[Razard86]

On 5/31/2025 at 0:16 AM, Flowerfaeiry said:

I literally just posted a video about this on my Instagram today! Weird timing. Basically, I put a lot of weight on psychedelics. I started doing them at a youngish. Had all these mind blowing realizations. My view of reality from 19 on was literally built on dmt and mushrooms. I got really into new age. I grew a lot, for sure. But sometimes I wonder like, was it all worth it? What was that all about? I’m grateful for my path and I respect psychedelics, but I am thoroughly convinced the propensity for deception is extremely, extremely high.

You are correct, without proper grounding it will create delusions you can fall into. But the irony personhood is the biggest delusion but also the most stable form of grounding you can utilize to protect you if you go too far off your rocker.

Edited 16 hours ago by Razard86

[theleelajoker]

On 31.5.2025 at 5:33 AM, Xonas Pitfall said:

Recently, a discussion around a spiritual couple and their take on polyamory sparked a broader topic - the subtle (and not-so-subtle) self-deceptions that psychedelics can create. Whether it's illusions that surface only during a trip or ones that linger and distort your everyday thinking, the line between insight and delusion can blur fast.

As I said in that blog post, at least for me, once I started practicing psychedelics, I was genuinely shocked by how much mixture and distortion my reality was getting from the drugs, and I had to pull myself out of it. I feel like in some communities, psychedelics are marketed as truth-revealers, or that only the wild, obvious delusions are insane, and they don’t follow you into real life. I had to battle through that, and still do to some extent.

For me it's aligned with most of what others said:

• For me it seems that "true relevations" and "personal bias / personal believes" mix in psycedelic experiences
• There have been times where I feel that psycedelics helped me to uncover sth that was unconscious before. Helpful and practical stuff for my real life
• There where occasions were psycedelic relevations turned out to be far less important or even delusional after the trip
• It seems - at least for me  - there is a significant risk while tripping to spin stories were you kind of get lost in these stories and apparent relevations. Happend to me recently on MDMA, I was incredibly convinced to see how certain relationships impacted each other, what certain behaviour of others mean, the causality behind it etc. It all seemed so clear, very convincing. Very good explanations for many things I observed. And few hours later I am very sceptic re my conclusions...