The Politics Of The European Union

[Daniel Balan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Europe's biggest problem is that they are not ambitious enough. They are lagging behind in entrepreneurship. Too much of that soft Green socialist welfare-state malaise.

I've never thought that you will criticise the European Union for being too stage Green! Haha! You usually criticise from the opposite angle, that a political entity isn't stage Green enough! Jokes aside that's Europe's Achilles heel right now! Too much suppression of inovation and industrialization in the name of the Green deal. This could be fatal for the EU! By trying to hard to go fully Stage Green, it could make the whole union to collapse once reactionaty far right leaders are elected into office, thus undoing all of the stage Green polices and doubling down on hyper capitalism and throwing all the environmental policies and welfare policies in the trash can! The current leaders should be very careful with their policies!

[nerdspeak]

I live in Europe. The main problem is underinvestment, not the welfare state. The causes are pretty complex, but can be boiled down to German hegemony, and the Germans’ decision to run highly deflationary policy because it makes their exports competitive. 

You could then say, well the problem is your inability to unite to counter Germany hegemony, and I would say, touché. But it’s got very little to do with lack of entrepreneurialism or whatever, countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and even France (albeit confined to Paris region) do quite well in the startup world relative to their population size. 

The macro stuff is just macro stuff, as in, China and the US run massive deficits to create demand in their economies, and in Europe that’s not allowed because of Maastricht. 

Edited May 28 by nerdspeak

[Leo Gura]

MEGA

Make Europe Great Again

[Daniel Balan]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

MEGA

Make Europe Great Again

That's the slogan of the far right in Europe today! 

[Lyubov]

Who cares if Europe isn’t as ambitious as China or USA? Europe should just focus on their security and protect their way of life. We need to do what is right and necessary and I don’t see European policy conflicting with that especially now. Upholding democracy and people’s rights and freedom. We need that now more than ever on the world stage. 

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Who cares if Europe isn’t as ambitious

It's a big deal since Europe will fall behind in the AI race and become poor, which will lead to fascist movements.

Europe needs to be technologically and economically competitive, not just stagnant wellfare states. Europe needs to compete with China's rapid development.

Edited May 29 by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a big deal since Europe will fall behind in the AI race and become poor, which will lead to fascist movements.

Europe needs to be technologically and economically competitive, not just stagnant wellfare states. Europe needs to compete with China's rapid development.

USA has been ahead in tech for ages and is falling into fascism. The USA. The model democracy. China has been authoritarian. They aren’t stagnant welfare states. They have fallen behind but that is a right wing talking point. People are so spooked and warped by what’s going on in the USA they think a balanced country with workers right (USA 50 years ago) is now a commie welfare state. I’m not arguing with reality though. Who knows what will unfold. And I do think Europe needs to ensure its own safety much more so, especially after Trump blundered. No doubt Europe innovating more would be a good thing. 

[Daniel Balan]

I'd argue that America went the fascist route as a counterbalancing act regarding the power dynamics with China. It went fascist because it started to slowly but surely be overpassed by China

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Europe's biggest problem is that they are not ambitious enough. They are lagging behind in entrepreneurship. Too much of that soft Green socialist welfare-state malaise.

No, the biggest problem of EU is that we're too divided, and we got trojan horses like Hungary who make things unnecessarilly difficult for us. US and China doesn't have that problem

[Leo Gura]

@NewKidOnTheBlock China is one nation and Europe is not. So that division is not going away.

[Twentyfirst]

11 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Predicting the downfall of the EU and Europe in general, despite the fact that they have not been surpassed technologically or economically by countries with your culture since the early Middle Ages, is a rather bold assumption, don't you think?

Funny that you think tech or economy are the top two things you said. There are metrics beyond this you know

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

I'd argue that America went the fascist route as a counterbalancing act regarding the power dynamics with China. It went fascist because it started to slowly but surely be overpassed by China

If you have a visa to USA they search your social media at customs. For China you can just go without search 

☠️

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 26/05/2025 at 0:31 AM, Leo Gura said:

The elites of every nation serve their own class. Nothing new there. That's how all societies function.

True as far as the recent History of Humanity goes. With recent I mean from the Cradle of Mesopotâmia, Sargon of Akkad etc...Rome,Byzantine Empire then what turned into American Empires and others. This shit is old as the ideia of debt, slave debt peonage.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

No, the biggest problem of EU is that we're too divided, and we got trojan horses like Hungary who make things unnecessarilly difficult for us. US and China doesn't have that problem

The US has the democrats vs reps which is slowing them down. And China is very authoritarian and moves quickly much quicker than democracies but the system could also crumble fast imo when the glorious party makes wrong decisions.

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a big deal since Europe will fall behind in the AI race and become poor, which will lead to fascist movements.

Europe needs to be technologically and economically competitive, not just stagnant wellfare states. Europe needs to compete with China's rapid development.

One problem is Europes reliance on the US since ww2. It made European countries maybe more peaceful and less competitive. It was like a deal between Europe and the US. US can be number one, we support them but we want protection and so on.

And now Trump questions this “friendship”/ vassal relationship. Which ultimately is good for Europe but maybe bad for the West as an alliance imo.

Edited May 29 by PurpleTree

[Alexop]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@NewKidOnTheBlock China is one nation and Europe is not. So that division is not going away.

Europe is so fragmented and their people are so spoiled by their welfare states that they will wake up poor soon. So many people working bullshit jobs that dont bring real value to society it's mind boggling. Trillions of dollars of loss in inefficiency.

[zazen]

On 5/26/2025 at 3:41 PM, Daniel Balan said:

@zazen Great answer! Thank you! This is the kind of answer I was looking for! So basically the solution is each country in the EU to have a bigger voice in Bruxelles, not just France, Germany and Italy! The lesser developed nations should have a much stronger voice than they currently have! Which proves my point that right wingers are a plague that can only harm their country's interests with their ape like way of behaving! The lesser developed countries should stand their ground more when it comes to migrants and green deal, but as a tradeoff they should crack down even harder on fiscal evasion and political reform of their state! The solution is centrism with a backbone and balls not retarded right wingers! Oh man how much I hate those ape like right wingers! Even their facial expression is that of an under evolved ape! Fuck the right wingers! 

You're calling for centrism, but not practicing it. Centrism is about seeing things from both sides, weighing trade offs, and acknowledging complexity - not emotionally dismissing one side because FUCK the right wingers lol

Just because Leo has called out green ambitions being too utopian you have now come to your senses? Or what about what nerdspeak has said above which I commented similar to on the previous page ie that a stronger nations like Germany-France dominate the policies of the EU which may not be in the interest of other individual nations.

You yourself are confused about whether EU policies are good or bad. The complexity is that there's a tension between national interest vs supranational interest. But you dismiss any kind of national interest as right wing nazism because your a emotional snowflake liberal.

[Daniel Balan]

3 minutes ago, zazen said:

You're calling for centrism, but not practicing it. Centrism is about seeing things from both sides, weighing trade offs, and acknowledging complexity - not emotionally dismissing one side because FUCK the right wingers lol

Just because Leo has called out green ambitions being too utopian you have now come to your senses? Or what about what nerdspeak has said above which I commented similar to on the previous page ie that a stronger nations like Germany-France dominate the policies of the EU which may not be in the interest of other individual nations.

You yourself are confused about whether EU policies are good or bad. The complexity is that there's a tension between national interest vs supranational interest. But you dismiss any kind of national interest as right wing nazism because your a emotional snowflake liberal.

After you gave a great answer last time, now you again talk shit! Of course I don't know wheter the policies of the EU are good or bad! That was the reason I started this very thread! TO FIND OUT! I wanted to know wheter Europe goes too fast towards Green while damaging healthy aspects from Orange! And regarding the right wing, I never ever found any valuable policy from them EVER! Everything the right wing does is utter madness and stupidity! I call for centrism because in my mind centrism means balancing both welfare policies and green deal type of policies from the centre left with more conservative economical policies that help reduce excessive bureaucracy for businesses, having strict borders that don't allow illegal migrants to wreck havoc, to limit migration and only take very small quotas of them, only people that have a clean criminal record etc! Nationalism, isolationism, racism, xenofobia, homofobia, showing the middle finger all the time to Bruxelles, endless conspiracy theories, theocracy, chaos, ultra traditionalism, fanatical religion.. those are the traits I despise the most and guess what, all belong to the most stupid and retarded ideology, which is the far right! I hate the left too, but the right triggers me in a way I wanna vomit!

[zazen]

37 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

I call for centrism because in my mind centrism means balancing both welfare policies and green deal type of policies from the centre left with more conservative economical policies that help reduce excessive bureaucracy for businesses, having strict borders that don't allow illegal migrants to wreck havoc, to limit migration and only take very small quotas of them, only people that have a clean criminal record etc! Nationalism, isolationism, racism, xenofobia, homofobia, showing the middle finger all the time to Bruxelles, endless conspiracy theories, theocracy, chaos, ultra traditionalism, fanatical religion.. those are the traits I despise the most

Yeah that's a good balance. The thing is one policy may be good for one country while not so good for another as each country has different strengths and weaknesses. Germany who has a low unemployment rate vs Spain who has a very high one will naturally differ on what policies would suit them. Spain and Greece have higher youth unemployment than Mongolia and some African countries - they naturally would need a different approach and to use different tools but don't have the autonomy for it within the EU.

That was the traditional tension in the EU - between Northern taxpayer countries vs Southern debtors countries - with blame games over who is lazy etc. But now there's also a tension between the East and West which is more political / cultural. rather than economic. The supranational entity (EU) wants to impose more liberal values on more conservative nations in the East.

You ask if your relatives are being truthful about Germany's de-industrialization, you should google it and check the many articles tracking it.

What made the EU work post WW2 was that it was a empire of access - to cheap energy from the East and to the largest consumer market in the West (US). It was the bridge, but that bride is crumbling from both ends. Russian energy is offline which drives energy costs up = less industry = less competitiveness. And the US is leaning into the tariff game making good less competitive to sell to the largest consumer market.

That input - output equation has been disrupted. Which requires adaptability  = which internal bureaucracy, fragmented political will, and overregulation get in the way of. Europe is anchored in its past, paralyzed in its present, and becoming irrelevant to the future - it needs to do something real quick.

The EU's institutions are designed to prevent war and constrain power, not to project innovation or agility. It celebrates historical achievements and moral postures, but struggles to let go of outdated frameworks. Too much memory and inertia, not enough momentum and inovation.

Future power and prosperity will be decided by technology - they need to double, triple, 10x down on it like yesterday. Only innovations can help plug the gaps it has.

Edited May 29 by zazen

[Daniel Balan]

@zazen This is a great answer! Thank you! This is the kind of answer I was expecting! The only thing I disagree with you is when you condenn the EU for pushing liberal values on the eastern European countries! To me this is pivotal to happen! Eastern europe is very backwards and underdeveloped when it comes to human behaviour! Here my fellow country men behave more like apes than decent humans! Plus there is the Russian propaganda machine put in place to capture the minds of the citizens of eastern Europe with endless propaganda that demonizes the west, so I highly encourage the EU to invest heavily in education and in NGO's that promote a more sane and liberal way of thinking for the citizenry of eastern Europe which currently is very backwards and barbaric in behaviour and thinking!