The Politics Of The European Union

[PurpleTree]

12 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Desert land. Make sure your woman is covered head to toe. Best she stares down at her shoes 🤣

Nah, go to Thailand when EU ship sinks

Why Thailand?

I feel like even if the European Union collapses and European countries revert back to their borders and currencies and China gains more influence etc. European countries are still probably better to live than desert land no?

[Schizophonia]

@Daniel Balan i respond tonight or tomorrow.

[Daniel Balan]

@Schizophonia Bro, do thorough research! Apply Spiral Dynamics, use your critical thinking, and you will arrive at conclusions similar to mine! And also please respond to the initial question of this topic wheter the policies of the presend day EU are good or are terrible as the right wingers say!

[Twentyfirst]

47 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Why Thailand?

I feel like even if the European Union collapses and European countries revert back to their borders and currencies and China gains more influence etc. European countries are still probably better to live than desert land no?

Depends what you are looking for. EU has the most beautiful architecture and pretty good food. But it's become a legacy brand, higher price for the same quality materials

Desert land has 1st world and 3rd world countries and areas 

Thailand is just so much fun, amazing weather, beaches, mountains, good people, cheap, best food, developing economy, cool tourists, safety. Worth going even if EU doesn't decline 

[PurpleTree]

47 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Depends what you are looking for. EU has the most beautiful architecture and pretty good food. But it's become a legacy brand, higher price for the same quality materials

Desert land has 1st world and 3rd world countries and areas 

Thailand is just so much fun, amazing weather, beaches, mountains, good people, cheap, best food, developing economy, cool tourists, safety. Worth going even if EU doesn't decline 

I‘ve been to Thailand a few times. Already as a child. It’s nice.

Desert world first world countries seem quite weird though like Dubai it‘s all about money and showing off. Building the highest tower etc. 

Lebanon would interest me (it’s also half Christian)

Egypt has nice red sea and historical sight but is otherwise quite a mess imo.

What i like about Europe is Architecture, culture, history, food, walkabilty, public transport, freedom of speech, freedom for women and lgbt and so on. No place is perfect Europe definitely has problems too.

This is where i‘m sitting right now  ☕️ 

Edited May 26 by PurpleTree

[Nemra]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Egypt has nice red sea and historical sight but is otherwise quite a mess imo.

Most people there struggle to survive.

Lately the prices have gone up.

Also, you will have a difficult time buying sugar. Lol.

I lived in Egypt for a long time, and I would say it's not worth living there unless you have a very good reason.

However, you would witness the starkness of survival.

Imagine seeing 100s of poor people living in dirt all around you.

You have to be very careful when walking outside, especially as a foreigner.

[Twentyfirst]

33 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I‘ve been to Thailand a few times. Already as a child. It’s nice.

Desert world first world countries seem quite weird though like Dubai it‘s all about money and showing off. Building the highest tower etc. 

Lebanon would interest me (it’s also half Christian)

Egypt has nice red sea and historical sight but is otherwise quite a mess imo.

What i like about Europe is Architecture, culture, history, food, walkabilty, public transport, freedom of speech, freedom for women and lgbt and so on. No place is perfect Europe definitely has problems too.

This is where i‘m sitting right now 

I personally don't like Dubai or the idea of it

Beirut may be your best bet then during peaceful times. Or Oman because they are new but still Middle Eastern cities rather than giant skyscraper cities and always peaceful 

Yeah EU is nice, I only go in the summer though. In USA its warm enough in Winter in the south 

Edited May 26 by Twentyfirst

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Most people there struggle to survive.

Lately the prices have gone up.

Also, you will have a difficult time buying sugar. Lol.

I lived in Egypt for a long time, and I would say it's not worth living there unless you have a very good reason.

However, you would witness the starkness of survival.

Imagine seeing 100s of poor people living in dirt all around you.

You have to be very careful when walking outside, especially as a foreigner.

Yea i‘ve been to Egypt three times.

Things i really don’t like about Egypt is walkabilty. PT. The culture of trying to scam and rip you off. Already at the airport there are hundreds of cabdrivers trying to scam you. Uber drivers argue all the time. I don’t feel very safe in Hurghada. Maybe Aswan and Cairo are a bit better.

[Nemra]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

The culture of trying to scam and rip you off. Already at the airport there are hundreds of cab drivers trying to scam you.

That is normal. 😁

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Maybe Aswan and Cairo are a bit better.

As a tourist, you might be able to ignore lots of day-to-day stuff.

I promise, it is not good.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Nemra said:

That is normal. 😁

As a tourist, you might be able to ignore lots of day-to-day stuff.

I promise, it is not good.

Well it might be normal but for me it’s  a horrible experience . In Europe there’s usually PT to the city. All easy and nice.

[Nemra]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Well it might be normal but for me it’s  a horrible experience . In Europe there’s usually PT to the city. All easy and nice.

I would never forget Copenhagen and Amsterdam. 😏

You have to be somewhat rich to have a better life in Egypt.

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I would never forget Copenhagen and Amsterdam. 😏

You have to be somewhat rich to have a better life in Egypt.

And even then it’s probably just gated communities and not nice walkable cities. What they’re building in Egypt now the new capital with large phallic symbols while the population is so poor is wild. So corrupt. I love the red sea though.

[Nemra]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

What they’re building in Egypt now the new capital with large phallic symbols while the population is so poor is wild.

Yep.

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I love the red sea though.

Me too.

[zazen]

18 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Zazen loves the Russian and Chinese propaganda. His hobbies are walks on the beach and moan and biech about the West. Almost a Che Guevara (but only on the keyboard)

He is a special cookie and we love him very much. Same with twentysomething.

I should change my username to comrade Zazen lol I kid 

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The elites of every nation serve their own class. Nothing new there. That's how all societies function.

@Daniel Balan  Don't let bipartisan politics (something with a hint of right wing = automatically bad) get in the way of analysis and understanding how capital flows, which is largely a-political.

If we stop getting triggered for a second about the details and some of the guys conclusions (of which I disagree with some also) - the wider point remains in understanding elite behavior - and Leo gets to the essence of it with the fact that they serve their own class.

What I think has shifted and to which that guy points to is that the elite class is no longer nationally rooted - so their class interest isn't as aligned with the national interest as it once was more closely.  In the past national capitalists depended on national strength/development: a strong domestic economy, educated labor force, domestic consumption, military protection. Elites were usually publicly linked to national myths like nobility, founding fathers, industrial pioneers. Think Rockerfeller, Carnegie etc. But now they are post-national because in a globalized world their wealth, operations, and identities are embedded in a global system of capital.

Today's elite have have transcended the nation-state as capital is mobile across jurisdictions where they can benefit from and arbitrage currencies, labor costs, tax jurisdictions, consumers markets that aren't just domestic etc. That means the elite class is no longer bound by the health of the nation they originate from. Their fortunes can rise while the nation declines - which wasn’t quite possible before. Their reputation is more global as their companies answer more to shareholders than citizens.

This is why we hear both the left and right critique corporatocracy - but in different ways. There's quite obviously a issue afoot but the solutions being offered are debated. Both sides are somewhat unknowingly pointing to the same meta-crisis which is: a post-national elite class with no accountability to people or place. They're shouting past each other because they come at the issue from different places and with different solutions.

A note on the EU in particular:

The global eite have built global regulatory frameworks (WTO, WEF, ESG standards) that supersede national sovereignty - in the same way that the EU supersedes the nations within it. This is the problem some EU nations find - they have policies they need to follow which may favor one nation over another - ie they are superseded to the point national interest isn't always taken into account or is subordinate to supranational governance.

The Eurozone monetary structure for example favors export driven Germany, but hurts debtor nations needing flexibility such as Greece, Italy, Spain.  They could de-value their currencies to become more competitive but can't as they if they don't have monetary sovereignty. France is heavily subsidised for its agriculture while Romania for example isn't to the same extent - this undercuts local production making Romanian agriculture less competitive. Nations are expected to take in refugees as part of a burden sharing scheme - but perhaps one nation doesn't have the capacity to take in or assimilate a certain quota of refugees the same way another richer nation could.

On going green: Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania, and Bulgaria aren't as rich as Germany, France or Netherlands who can afford the subsidize the green transition more easily. Some states have to shut down coal plants without viable alternatives meanwhile France shapes the rules to fit its existing strengths by pushing the EU to classify nuclear as "green",  that helps them secure subsidies and financing. Because France gets a lot of its energy from nuclear, it meets the emission target more easily. The same emission reduction target requires vastly different levels of sacrifice.

Just like the transnational elite, the EU technocracy can act above nations, for a supposedly “higher order” good - but at the cost of national agency and interest. It's like a centipede where each nation is a leg with the EU being the body - but each leg moving in its own direction towards what is in its best interest - but the body of the EU forces it in a certain direction causing friction, gridlock and what is known as bureaucracy or a lack of dynamism where the wrong things happen, the right things aren't allowed to happen, or the they take too long to happen.

Edited May 26 by zazen

[Daniel Balan]

@zazen Great answer! Thank you! This is the kind of answer I was looking for! So basically the solution is each country in the EU to have a bigger voice in Bruxelles, not just France, Germany and Italy! The lesser developed nations should have a much stronger voice than they currently have! Which proves my point that right wingers are a plague that can only harm their country's interests with their ape like way of behaving! The lesser developed countries should stand their ground more when it comes to migrants and green deal, but as a tradeoff they should crack down even harder on fiscal evasion and political reform of their state! The solution is centrism with a backbone and balls not retarded right wingers! Oh man how much I hate those ape like right wingers! Even their facial expression is that of an under evolved ape! Fuck the right wingers! 

[eliasvelez]

Im from switzerland but would say am very connectet to europe. My father is Italian and I have friends in austria, italy, germany, denmark, protugal, tschech republic and have travelled a lot around europe in different contexts the last years. Hoenstly, I feel so fucking optimistic and hopefull about the future of europe. It seems that europe is slowly integrating stage green, with some backlashes but the eu seems strong enought to survive them and learn from them. We, europe, have the best educated, the healthiest society, the best wealth distribution in the world plus europe is preparing for the future in terms of interconnection, military, sustainability and business. I must admit, I have been most of the parts in urban centers but It still feels like there is so much at stake that in the end the majority of the people dont want to give up on europe. At the moment it feels that for the next years the ship „europe“ is on the right course…

Edited May 26 by eliasvelez

[Daniel Balan]

@eliasvelez Thank you for your answer! I'm from a little rural village in northern Romania, 10 km away from Ukraine and I share your view of things 100%!

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

On 25. 5. 2025 at 10:12 PM, Twentyfirst said:

You can come visit me when EU is on fire and you would rather abandon it all than stick it out. Gonna be a long bonfire I think half a century 

Predicting the downfall of the EU and Europe in general, despite the fact that they have not been surpassed technologically or economically by countries with your culture since the early Middle Ages, is a rather bold assumption, don't you think?

[Leo Gura]

Europe's biggest problem is that they are not ambitious enough. They are lagging behind in entrepreneurship. Too much of that soft Green socialist welfare-state malaise.

Edited May 28 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Europe's biggest problem is that they are not ambitious enough. They are lagging behind in entrepreneurship. Too much of that soft Green socialist welfare-state malaise.

In a way because it’s decentralised and everyone is doing their own thing. You can see it with high speed rails which countries like Spain, Italy, France have very good ones Germany is lagging but everyone is doing their own thing. Same with weapons systems and platforms although there are joint projects. Imo Europe needs a Silicon Valley and a Hollywood.