Humanity Has Failed

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

How else do we explain a ex Al-Qaeda leader like Jolani in Syria being welcomed by establishment and sanctions lifted, Iran-Saudi normalization - two arch enemies, Trump going direct to Hamas and Iran to talk angering Israel? Whats the sentiment of Israeli's with his actions?

I can't really speak for Israelis but in my view trying to rationally understand Trump's actions are an exercise in futility. He has the emotional stability of a toddler and his inclinations change like the wind. Add to that all the warring sub factions within his administration vying for his attention and influence. 

All you can really say is that he's less concerned with upsetting Bibi than Biden was. 

If something benefits Trump in the short term, be it monetarily or a quick ego boost for bringing back an American - he will pursue. He does not actually have a cohesive vision or plan. 

[Breakingthewall]

Israel is surrounded by enemies who wish to annihilate it, so its mental health as a country is what you would have if you were surrounded by neighbors who wish to kill you. You would become somewhat reactive.

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

Very funny. Do you truly believe this? if so, you are precisely the delusional lefty Leo was referring to. 

 

I think majority think it is stolen land but i dont think the majority wants to actually genocide the Jews

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

which is to demonize all of Israeli society and paint them as "rotten."

That is the conclusion I got after talking to dozens and hearing another dozens speak in genocidal language

Many told me that they were pro peace and pro two state before October 7th and now they see all Gazans as the enemy

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

hat do you hope to achieve? Let's say everyone agrees Israelis are inherently morally corrupt and "rotten." What then? 

Israel gets beaten into submission by the international community until they learn and change their ways

Just like Nazi Germany was

Apologise for all the wrong they did, recognize a Palestinian state and learn not to see Arabs Muslims as inferior race and religion.

Simple as that

The hatred they have towards Muslims is truly shocking, especially considering it was actually Christians those that badly oppressed Jews for 2000 years.

Edited May 30 by Karmadhi

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Israel is surrounded by enemies who wish to annihilate it, so its mental health as a country is what you would have if you were surrounded by neighbors who wish to kill you. You would become somewhat reactive.

Israel will go down in history and biggest geopolitical fuckup of all time.

[Leo Gura]

What percentage of Nazi society wanted to genocide the Jews?

Probably quite low.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Israel will go down in history and biggest geopolitical fuckup of all time.

No, that will be Palestine. Israel is thriving and growing.

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

I think majority think it is stolen land but i dont think the majority wants to actually genocide the Jews

I would venture to say that if you sampled both populations side by side a much larger percent of Palestinians would want to genocide the Jews than the other way around. All your statistics regarding this are anecdotes and polls sourced from a left leaning Israeli publication. There is no such publication on the Palestinian side. There is no such thing as internal criticism. When you look at the Palestinian school curriculum, a large part of it is the most blatant and violent antisemitic propaganda imaginable. This isn't something veiled. They teach them from day one to annihilate Jews.

 

Quote

Israel gets beaten into submission by the international community until they learn and change their ways

Just like Nazi Germany was

Nazi Germany was defeated in a world war where they were trying to conquer all of Europe. It had nothing to even do with Jews. 

 

 

Edited May 30 by hundreth

[Vynce]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What percentage of Nazi society wanted to genocide the Jews?

Probably quite low.

That’s true. Most Germans, even many of the top Nazis, did not precisely know what was happening in Auschwitz and other camps. Rarely anyone of them visited the camps.
 

During the Nuremberg trials the Soviet’s showed them video footage from the liberation of about different 20-30 camps. 
They said, that many top Nazis couldn’t look at it and some even fainted.

„The banality of evil“. As Hannah Arendt wrote about it. 

Edited May 30 by Vynce

[Karmadhi]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What percentage of Nazi society wanted to genocide the Jews?

Probably quite low.

That makes Israel look worse as many people there see all Gazans as the enemy including kids

https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-minister-says-israel-should-bomb-humanitarian-aid-starve-gazans/

https://forward.com/opinion/723508/why-israel-extremists-must-be-stopped-netanyahu-trump-smotrich/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/moshe-feiglin-every-baby-in-gaza-is-an-enemy-ex-israeli-lawmakers-shocking-remarks-8477020

More than 15% of Israelis voted for parties whose elected people said such stuff

Shows how huge the hatred is

SAD

[Karmadhi]

38 minutes ago, hundreth said:

would venture to say that if you sampled both populations side by side a much larger percent of Palestinians would want to genocide the Jews than the other way around. All your statistics regarding this are anecdotes and polls sourced from a left leaning Israeli publication. There is no such publication on the Palestinian side. There is no such thing as internal criticism. When you look at the Palestinian school curriculum, a large part of it is the most blatant and violent antisemitic propaganda imaginable. This isn't something veiled. They teach them from day one to annihilate Jews.

I am open to sources

 

38 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Nazi Germany was defeated in a world war where they were trying to conquer all of Europe. It had nothing to even do with Jews. 

 

Point is that Israel should be deradicalized and the hatred and ethno supermacy they have towards Palestinians be removed through international pressure

[hundreth]

13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

I am open to sources

You are unaware of the Palestinian school curriculum? Would you like to revisit that? Seems like a waste of time for the purposes of this thread.

What do you think breeds more pro genocidal sentiment, the Palestinian super anti-semitic + highest virtue is killing Jews school system or the Israeli one which focuses on general ed, science, etc + some masking of reality like the Nakba. The schooling wayyyy closer to reality is the Israeli one.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that will be Palestine. Israel is thriving and growing.

Not really.

- it is having a major brain drain, which is a big issue since it’s a highly stratified society. 

- it has dangerous levels of political polarization

- it relies on international support which is called into question as international public support is declining rapidly 

- the economy has suffered a lowered credit rating, high debt, and rising cost of living

Like I already said your analysis is based on two faulty assumptions, the more developed side will always be more moral and will always win.

That isn’t true. A simple, example is Apartheid South Africa. White South Africans were more economically developed than South Africans, yet they lost control and the South Africans now treat them far better than they treated blacks during apartheid. (Not to say they don’t face mistreatment).

You need to let go of the idea israel is some bastion of enlightened western liberals. When polled 66% said they would vote for Trump over Kamala. Among younger Israelis it was something insane like 90%.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-israelis-massively-favor-trump-over-harris-in-us-election/

 

Edited May 30 by Raze

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, hundreth said:

You are unaware of the Palestinian school curriculum? Would you like to revisit that? Seems like a waste of time for the purposes of this thread.

What do you think breeds more pro genocidal sentiment, the Palestinian super anti-semitic + highest virtue is killing Jews school system or the Israeli one which focuses on general ed, science, etc + some masking of reality like the Nakba. The schooling wayyyy closer to reality is the Israeli one.

Study of textbooks found Palestinian textbooks weren’t antisemitic 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-08-10/ty-article/.premium/no-palestinian-textbooks-are-not-antisemitic/0000017f-f1ff-d223-a97f-fdff7f7f0000
 

The hatred isn’t because of the school system, it’s because israel has murdered thousands of civilians and occupies millions without rights. 

Edited May 30 by Raze

[hundreth]

16 minutes ago, Raze said:

Study of textbooks found Palestinian textbooks weren’t antisemitic 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-08-10/ty-article/.premium/no-palestinian-textbooks-are-not-antisemitic/0000017f-f1ff-d223-a97f-fdff7f7f0000
 

The hatred isn’t because of the school system, it’s because israel has murdered thousands of civilians and occupies millions without rights. 

Textbooks is a nice cherry-picking. Very creative.

https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Report-UNRWA.pdf

There are countless videos of the Palestinian school system and what they teach.
 

 

 

Edited May 30 by hundreth

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Textbooks is a nice cherry-picking. Very creative.

https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Report-UNRWA.pdf

There are countless videos of the Palestinian school system and what they teach.
 

 

Actually that was Israel’s official hasbara about how Palestinians are “brainwashed”, they would constantly point to textbooks

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/yale-professor-blasts-blindness-of-israeli-education-minister-over-school-textbook-report-1.501475

What you’re linking to are the actual random cherry-picked clips as opposed to something like textbooks which would show a consistent operation of an education system. We can do the same for israel

 

https://forward.com/opinion/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/

Edited May 30 by Raze

[hundreth]

Just now, Raze said:

Actually that was Israel’s official hasbara about how Palestinians are “brainwashed”, they would constantly point to textbooks

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/yale-professor-blasts-blindness-of-israeli-education-minister-over-school-textbook-report-1.501475

What you’re linking to are the actual random cherry-picked clips. We can do the same for israel

 

 

 

As I said, all propaganda aside I would bet any sum of money that if you sampled a random population from each side you would have a greater percentage of Palestinians who would like to genocide the Jews. 

Now you can say that's because of what Israel has done, but it doesn't change that. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Israel will go down in history and biggest geopolitical fuckup of all time.

Israel's actions in Gaza are horrific, but they are a declaration of unwavering will. They say: forgetting these ideas about the disappearance of the State of Israel. It is impossible. There is will, and there are nukes. It's better to accept the situation. What else to do? Dissapear as all the Muslims want? Muslims must stop being a violent ideology. Who cares about a country that's in the middle of dessert? They don't hate Israel because Israel mistreat Palestinian, they do before that, just because they are Jews. It's like some Muslims create a country in the middle of Russia for example, and all the Christianity hate them to death because they are Muslims and do wars to destroy them.

Edited May 30 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

That makes Israel look worse as many people there see all Gazans as the enemy including kids

Well, if Nazi Germany was attacked by suicide bombers who killed 1,000 Germans civilians, their sentiment would quickly resemble that of Israelis.

Keep in mind that Nazis hated Jews without Jews even killing any of them.

Imagine the shitstorm there'd be if Jews were doing weekly suicide attacks in Wiemar Germany.

Edited May 30 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

The Palestinians should have accepted the situation, looked ahead, and competed with the Jews by collaborating with them, but they prefer to remain in the past, in hatred and revenge. So what do they want? Hugs? Violence is useless, they are weaker, they must start using their brains, study, be alive, have a positive identity, not just hate.

Of course, there are always excuses for hate. but they are just excuses. Life is first. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Point is that Israel should be deradicalized and the hatred and ethno supermacy they have towards Palestinians be removed through international pressure

It could happen when the Muslims accept Israel as a country and the Palestinian start fighting for their rights in a positive way, without violence. If the Muslims persist in gate and negativity, there are two solution, the end of Israel or show them that they can't be expelled because they are strong enough. If Hamas put kids like shields, show them that this is useless . If not what? 

Edited May 30 by Breakingthewall