UnbornTao

What is experience?

343 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, James123 said:

I mean is, without past or future beliefs, attachments, thoughts, worries etc... what is really happening now is what we actually experiencing.

I am writing to you. That's it. 😊 

I understand. 

Might I push to you - what IS experience, not what it ISN'T? As, assuredly, it is as you say, a step removed from the above 'thoughts' (⁠。⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠。⁠)


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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2 hours ago, James123 said:

I mean is, without past or future beliefs, attachments, thoughts, worries etc... what is really happening now is what we actually experiencing.

I am writing to you. That's it. 😊 

Thanks. And what is that, really? xD 

For example, when asked about the same circumstance, two people might have different reactions - or an entirely different relationship to it altogether. They can, quite literally, experience the same event differently. So what we're trying to clarify now is what's experienced in actuality or perhaps what's really happening - as distinguished from the added elements you mentioned above, like worry, belief, attachment, thought (interpretation, charge, value), and so on.

Do you encounter the 'writing to me' as it is experienced, or could it be that the 'other' (me) is imagined on your part and not actually experienced? What is experienced when all conceptual activity is set aside - or transcended? That sounds like quite the contemplation! Are we able to encounter something - such as an object - for itself? Do you experience the act of writing as it is, or are there doings like interpretation and 'charge' superimposed on it - things that aren't the mere 'writing'? Also, we can unpack that activity and still probably find things within it that are generated, as opposed to "just there."

Edited by UnbornTao

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4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

what IS experience, not what it ISN'T? As, assuredly, it is as you say, a step removed from the above 'thoughts'

 

24 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Thanks. And what is that, really? xD 

For example, when asked about the same circumstance, two people might have different reactions - or an entirely different relationship to it altogether. They, quite literally, can experience the same event differently. So what we're trying to clarify here is what's actually happening (if that's what we're calling experience for now), as distinguished from things you mentioned above like worry, belief, thought, and so on.

What is experienced when all conceptual activity is set aside or transcended? That sounds like quite the contemplation! Are we able to experience something, such as an object, for itself?

What experience isn't is, actually anything that you add meaning on it. When you say "thoughts" if you attached to meaning of it, it is not really experiencing in now. Because, it / meaning is something that so called has been "learned", which is the attachment to word of "learning".


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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49 minutes ago, James123 said:

What experience isn't is, actually anything that you add meaning on it. When you say "thoughts" if you attached to meaning of it, it is not really experiencing in now. Because, it / meaning is something that so called has been "learned", which is the attachment to word of "learning".

Isn't meaning, in this case, one element among several - interpretation being one of them? One can interpret something without necessarily imbuing it with meaning, as interpretation occurs prior to meaning-making. And we'd likely agree this isn't quite what we mean by 'experience'.

You might be implicitly pointing to - or perhaps I'm just using this as a pretext to make a point - the possibility of experiencing a thought rather than merely 'having' one; that is, directly experiencing the activity of generating thought as it unfolds. This contrasts with our usual mode of experience, where we seem to be at the effect of thought, as though it arises from outside ourselves.

Just throwing around some questions - and claims.

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4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

 

You might be implicitly pointing to - or perhaps I'm just using this as a pretext to make a point - the possibility of experiencing a thought rather than merely 'having' one; that is, directly experiencing the activity of generating thought as it unfolds. This contrasts with our usual mode of experience, where we seem to be at the effect of thought, as though it arises from outside ourselves.

Damn what kind of new dimension of the psyche have you discovered.
 

I can consciously generate a thought. But when I don’t do that it seems they only come (in response to something for example) How is “experiencing” a thought different from simply having one? Both are us being aware of the thought. I don’t find that I generate thought as an action, you could say my brain does. Thoughts are directly arising and I’m aware of them arising, but I don’t experience an “activity of generating thought” , unless I’m consciously doing it

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54 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

as though it arises from outside ourselves.

This is what giving meaning is. Because, believing in it. It is just a belief. 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

interpretation being one of them?

What i am trying to point out as saying giving meaning is as soon as one attached with the word. It can be any, God, nothing, existence, non existence, nothingness, human, life, etc...


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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Experience is the result of Truth (everything all at once) coallescing into Being (a particular state).

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1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Damn what kind of new dimension of the psyche have you discovered.
 

Appreciate it. It might be slightly blown out of proportion, though. xD 

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I can consciously generate a thought. But when I don’t do that it seems they only come (in response to something for example) How is “experiencing” a thought different from simply having one? Both are us being aware of the thought. I don’t find that I generate thought as an action, you could say my brain does. Thoughts are directly arising and I’m aware of them arising, but I don’t experience an “activity of generating thought” , unless I’m consciously doing it

It sounds like you answered your own question. You can consciously experience both the having of a thought and the resulting thought, as opposed to the usual, automatic 'thinking a thought.' It's a subtle distinction. We could say the difference between the two activities lies in your level of participation in the encounter.

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1 hour ago, James123 said:

This is what giving meaning is. Because, believing in it. It is just a belief. 

"As though" it arises from outside ourselves - as in, it comes to me.

It seems to me that interpretation must come first, before any meaning can be attributed to something.

Quote

- "What is that in front of me"?

- "A tree."

- "Is it big? Safe as shelter? Good for woodwork?"

Hugely oversimplified "dialogue" with yourself, but you get the idea. xD 

56 minutes ago, James123 said:

What i am trying to point out as saying giving meaning is as soon as one attached with the word. It can be any, God, nothing, existence, non existence, nothingness, human, life, etc...

Okay, thank you. But could you clarify this a bit more, maybe expand on it?

Edited by UnbornTao

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5 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What is - at any level, from what is absolutely true to the nature of emotion, experience, others, relationship, the body, and so on. It is not what we think about something, but what exists in and of itself, both factually and ultimately.

That's a brilliant definition and the most powerful part in my view is "what exists ultimately"? 

For me experience exists that is the only thing I simply can't doubt.

But what does it mean for it to exist?

Where does it exist?

How do you define existence?

"What is" wise sounding statement, but what does it mean?

Edited by Anton Rogachevski

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22 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@cetus

I'm trying really hard but can't see the difference between consciousness and experience. Are there two things? 

@Anton Rogachevski Experience is an event that happens to an individual, ego-self. On the other hand, consciousness may be present in a jellyfish, plant or worm but there is no experience because there is no experience-er.

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18 hours ago, kbone said:

I wouldn't call sahaja 'rapturous', but more like EXTRAordinary... the suchness of existence in/as the unfolding, miraculous Present. Sure, at times it has a glowy, coolio dealio to it though. :D Depends on the state... of mind in contexts.

Does that make sense?

I don't know what you're talking about bro, just that it's funny, in other words, like ahahahah,

You said "type of dealio" as if maharaja samadhi is just "some kind of thing."

Its no big deal, man. Just keep it pushing! Lol! No sweat! Until you're dripping HEAD TO FUCKING TOE! 😰

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Appreciate it. It might be slightly blown out of proportion, though. xD 

It sounds like you answered your own question. You can consciously experience both the having of a thought and the resulting thought, as opposed to the usual, automatic 'thinking a thought.' It's a subtle distinction. We could say the difference between the two activities lies in your level of participation in the encounter.

I see

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10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Okay, thank you. But could you clarify this a bit more, maybe expand on it?

Anytime brother.

Actually, no one can can explain what direct experience or present moment is, however I will do my best.

As an example, concept of "so called before birth or deep sleep". Not the thinking of before birth or deep sleep, however before birth or deep sleep (İn that moment), there is no experience or non experiencing,  belief, think, God, nothing, infinite, existence or non existence etc... That's what direct experience is, out of any charts. 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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23 minutes ago, James123 said:

... That's what direct experience is, out of any charts. 

It's interesting to note that the old maps of 'the world as we knew it' use to have scary looking dragons and strange sea creatures meant to signify "the unknown" and/or "potential dangers" off on the side or in the lower corners.

Even in such convos exploring the known/unknown boundaries that hold up one's sense of existence, such fears are bound to arise.

Peeps also tend to 'fear' black holes, which are nothing but collapsed/collapsing stars. Understanding the general flow of existence, I see them for what they are, wink, and smile. ;)

Big Love

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59 minutes ago, kbone said:

that hold up one's sense of existence, such fears are bound to arise.

Definitely. Even, so called God or creation / creating is the holding up of sense of existence.

1 hour ago, kbone said:

Big Love

Much love brother ❤️ 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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14 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

That's a brilliant definition and the most powerful part in my view is "what exists ultimately"? 

For me experience exists that is the only thing I simply can't doubt.

But what does it mean for it to exist?

It means that it is factually occurring. You are perceiving and experiencing, are you not? Does it mean it is ultimately true? Not necessarily.

Now, this is tricky. For example, one might automatically assume that, since they believe in something, then that means the belief is true because 'it is occurring.' This is a mistake. What's happening here is that the activity of believing is taking place - not that the content of the belief exists as being true. It exists as something that is imagined. Slippery distinction.

Quote

Where does it exist?

I don't know.

Actually, go over this dialogue: 

 

Quote

How do you define existence?

"What is" wise sounding statement, but what does it mean?

It could be put as what's present, has always been and will always be. Contrast that with activity and invention - the relative domain we live in. What is can only be now - something to contemplate.

Depends on what we're talking about. You might recognize that you are angry, and this would be a fact - true in that regard. Yet, we might recognize anger as generated to serve a purpose. As a process, it can't be about what exists now - in this case, the emotion relates to a past imagination. Without the activity of generating anger, it does not exist.

Edited by UnbornTao

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2 hours ago, James123 said:

Anytime brother.

Actually, no one can can explain what direct experience or present moment is, however I will do my best.

As an example, concept of "so called before birth or deep sleep". Not the thinking of before birth or deep sleep, however before birth or deep sleep (İn that moment), there is no experience or non experiencing,  belief, think, God, nothing, infinite, existence or non existence etc... That's what direct experience is, out of any charts. 

Appreciate it.

Edited by UnbornTao

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