Do humans have inherent value?

[AION]

People say humans have inherent value but on what is this based? I always believed one needed to develop to be of value. 

[Princess Arabia]

Only to each other and within the dream. There's no inherent value in anything because everything is everything and there's no separation. It's all the same. Of course, I value things and things are relatively valuable; not denying that, but it means nothing and is all empty. A gold watch is no more valuable or less valuable than dog shit. Give me the gold watch though as it seems to be more valuable and I don't care what is, only what things seem to be. Might as well pretend. Nothing else to do. Its infinite. Infinitely valueless or valuably finite. 

Don't ask.

[Yimpa]

*tickles you*

[Santiago Ram]

Human life is precious because it is an opportunity for awakening.

 

Do not waste your time.

[Sandhu]

I was wrestling with this philosophical question myself today and while searching this thread came up.
There is no inherent value to a person as a first principal. of course it is a social construct. I struggled with self-worth and low self-esteem for quite a while. and the answer that you don't have to earn respect and worth never settled with me. of course people treat you based on a lot of social standing factors. If you want the respect of zoombies you have to earn it. You want human love and sex? you have to earn it.  Even on a personal level you can't love and respect yourself if you fail to live out your values and standards. Unconditional Self-love is BS. Unless you're awakened there is no free love.

[Jirh]

Yes. Everything is inherently valuable. And humans are part of everything.

A rock sitting in the road has inherent value. It fundamentally affects your perception.

Value is more fundamental than utility, and is not bounded or defined by it. Value is existential.

[Jirh]

Most people think value is only relational or utility-based. This leads to transactional relationships and self-esteem problems.

The totality of value is larger than utility. It's in what enables utility in the first place. The mere fact that something exists makes it inherently valuable.

It's hard to explain this but it is true.

[Carl-Richard]

Do you have inherent value? Do you deserve to exist?

[Jirh]

A wall of bricks isn't valuable because it is useful, although it can be useful too. It's valuable because it creates a fundamental separation between two spaces; one space in front of the wall and another behind it.

That's one way to look at it.

The wall's capability to create two spaces is inherent in its existence. You literally can't remove this feature from walls. You have to knock down the wall for that effect/value to disappear.

Edited yesterday at 10:13 PM by Jirh

[Basman]

Value is relative. Your going to have a bias for humans, being human and all. You won't see humans like a crocodile or a tiger does, to whom we are either a threat or just food. Your family is more valuable to you than a random stranger, who is more valuable to you than a farm pig, who's more valuable to you than ants. 

Value is just ones bias for survival. Humans or anything else for that matter don't need to have value to exist and be part of what makes creation whole.

Edited yesterday at 10:55 PM by Basman

[Sandhu]

6 hours ago, Jirh said:

Everything is inherently valuable

who says so? mere existence is meaningless. Value is a relative concept. I wonder how one cope with nihilism without awakening. There is no fundamental argument to rationalize your existence. What value any experience has? Human life is a construct. All delusions. I can't deeply enjoy anything because I know I'm dreaming and it's not real. To live a human life you have to construct a delusion, a fantasy. There is no other way. or you just die. The work to get of out the dream is crazy. I doubt most people even here are capable of that.

Edited 19 hours ago by Sandhu

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Sandhu said:

delusions. I can't deeply enjoy anything because I know I'm dreaming and it's not real

How is this known ?

[LordFall]

What kind of value and to who?

There is value in just being a character in the world, I rather there be 8 billion of us than 10.

Society is too competitive for that to be enough to add value to someone's goals though. If you are trying to network with cool guys and women in demand you need to have worked on yourself to stand far above the average person otherwise people will not have time for you.

From a nondual sense, we are here to experience duality so building up your character to be very valuable along paths that are of interest to you is the main goal of existence. Using spirituality to bypass that would be quite silly. When I feel anxious or depressed it does help me immensely to remember that I don't have fundamentally have to provide value to anyone and it's only a gift I'm building up for myself; giving yourself an awesome life is a privilege but if it becomes a burden you can pause it. 

Edited 18 hours ago by LordFall

[Sandhu]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

From a nondual sense, we are here to experience duality so building up your character to be very valuable along paths that are of interest to you is the main goal of existence.

There is no goal to existence. You're making that up. How do you enjoy others company when you know they don't even exist. I just can't enjoy falsehood. Relativity is FALSEHOOD ultimately. You gotta be unserious about truth to enjoy the dream.

[Someone here]

@Sandhu There is no such thing as “ it’s a dream and it’s unreal “. If you’re dreaming then you’re engaging in the dream unconsciously . If you actually knew that it’s a dream , the dream would end and you’d wake up. So the point of the dream must be relative to inside the dream .

[Jirh]

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

mere existence is meaningless.

That's simply not true.

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

Value is a relative concept.

Utility is relative. Value is absolute.

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

There is no fundamental argument to rationalize your existence.

You don't need an argument to exist. You just exist.

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

Human life is a construct. All delusions. I can't deeply enjoy anything because I know I'm dreaming and it's not real. To live a human life you have to construct a delusion, a fantasy. There is no other way. or you just die. The work to get of out the dream is crazy. I doubt most people even here are capable of that.

I'm sorry you're going through that. But I can assure you that these thoughts are not true.

[LordFall]

15 hours ago, Sandhu said:

There is no goal to existence. You're making that up. How do you enjoy others company when you know they don't even exist. I just can't enjoy falsehood. Relativity is FALSEHOOD ultimately. You gotta be unserious about truth to enjoy the dream.

Weird take. Are you able to enjoy a cold cup of water or a nice meal or is also ruined by falsehood to you? You can enjoy reality without getting stuck overthinking ontological truth. It's the main purpose of reality; to be enjoyed. 

[Someone here]

49 minutes ago, LordFall said:

It's the main purpose of reality; to be enjoyed. 

Go tell a beggar in Somalia or a child with bone cancer that the purpose of reality is to be enjoyed.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Someone here

[AION]

Mfs are so delusional. Life is just is. Life is just living.