Shaming non-vegans is not right.

[Something Funny]

@Ero personally, I think that we are already much more technologically advanced than we are mentally and socially. But maybe you are right.

 

[Something Funny]

6 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Sounds like a slave thinking to me. Also a set of values dictated to you by women (as a collective). Not saying embodying these qualities sometimes isn't usefull but I don't hold that shit like a religion. Seems like you are quite keen on following various religions like a slave.

You clearly know nothing of what this whole spirituality and self-actualization work is about. How do people like you even find this forum?

6 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

wouldn't be afraid of it literaly because I am not eating soy in the first place LOL seems like it would effect you much more tho. You seem quite emotional. You can only be insecure about something that is actually true or could ne true about you. In most cases. Not all of course.

6 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Huh?

Zero self awareness...

Edited January 9 by Something Funny

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

20 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Schizophonia my testosterone if fine and so is my muscle condition, thank you.

It sounds like you're a bit on the chubby side honestly, if we compare your height and weight

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

You clearly know nothing of what this whole spirituality and self-actualization work is about. How do people like you even find this forum?

I literaly know what it's about and probably been knowing what it's about sooner than you. Life and the world is just a bit more complicated than that. Again, I am not a religious follower like you

[Something Funny]

@NewKidOnTheBlock so what if I were chubby? What horrible thing would happen?

Like I've said, so insecure and obsessed with looks, lol. You can't even comprehend how a person can be confident in their body no matter how it looks.

[Something Funny]

@NewKidOnTheBlock 

1 minute ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I literaly know what it's about and probably been knowing what it's about sooner than you. Life and the world is just a bit more complicated than that. Again, I am not a religious follower like you

Clearly you don't. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

18 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

so what if I were chubby? What horrible thing would happen?

Nothing, I don't really care, it's just objectively unhealthier LOL but sure go ahead

Edited January 9 by NewKidOnTheBlock

[Ero]

16 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Ero personally, I think that we are already much more technologically advanced than we are mentally and socially. 

That’s true, i.e we are relatively more technologically than socially developed.

But I would argue we are in fact not that technically advanced in the first place. If you use energy as the scale, consider the fact that the total energy we can theoretically extract from the atom is the famous E=mc^2. The Electromagnetic bonds, which are what determine chemical reactions like the burning of coal, gas and oil, account only for 10^(-6) of that total mc^2. So outside of destroying earth, fossil fuels are actually also the most inefficient. Nuclear accounts for 10^(-3) of that, so a 1000x improvement. Fusion will be another step up - clean and literally limitless energy that also costs next to nothing ($0.2 for your entire annual energy consumption). Now that also means you solve the water crisis through desalination, and in turn this empowers sustainable agriculture.

And that doesn’t even mention automation, CRISPR, etc. A lot of society’s problems stem from having to survive in zero-sum games. Once we create abundance, a lot of those pressures will reduce. If course technology doesn’t substitute for conscious development but for sure will make it possible that we don’t destroy ourselves before we learn to be better.

 

[Something Funny]

@NewKidOnTheBlock in what way is it "objectively unhealthier"?

You are acting like I am obese. Sure, I've gained like 10 kg this year, and I don't have the shredded, defined muscles I used to have. But in no way my body type is "objectively unhealthy". 

I actually feel stronger than ever, and my cardio is great cause I cycle 25km to work.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Muscles don't really mean that much you just should have a good ammount of them and in a decent condition, in my opinion it's best to just be above average in strenght, lookwise I don't care how they look like but I'm currently aiming to maximize my functional strength. Can even use some man made metals but inteligently and just the basic exercises with them are enough.

Defined six pack, biceps and shit like that are all irrelevant.

Cardio is BS in my opinion it's enough to just walk a lot. Which you should be doing anyway

The negative effects of your diet haven't manifested themselves yet since it takes some time for them to manifest @Something Funny sometimes years. They can also come in subtly and can be easilly mistaken for something else or justified in your head. So watch out.

I tire of this topic anyway. I'm choosing the path of real manhood personally

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I tire of this topic anyway. I'm choosing the path of real manhood personally

Good luck, have fun

[Basman]

There is no reason not to eat meat from a purely health oriented perspective. It just a matter of quality and quantity of certain kinds of products. Quality meat is perfectly healthy and highly nutritious.

Choosing not to eat meat is necessarily an ideological orientation the vast majority of the time.

Edited January 9 by Basman

[AION]

Eventually all hit the wall. It is just that they slip in a cheat meal once in a while or in worse case be really hardcore about their vegan diet and shit their guts out at the end of the ride. The hidden costs of veganism is hard to predict. Veganism is like a box of chocolates  you never know what kind of health problems you are going to get

 

[Something Funny]

@Michael569 he is going to say that this is too expensive and that you either have to be a privileged, entitled westerner, or eat rice and beans.

[Something Funny]

@Michael569 with all the shit being dumped into our oceans, it's hard for me to believe that there are any healthy fishes left. But I don't have any data to back this up, so ok.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Most of our food tends to be contaminated with something. It is a huge issue of our age. Something ought to be done about it but humanity would have to cease being so foolish.

Only fish from ponds and lakes of certain parts of the world can be considered really clean imo. Fortunately I have access to them

 

[Schizophonia]

29 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Yes, I have an objection. We've had this debate a thousand times yet I see you keep sliding back to these nonsensical arguments. 

You're an intelligent dude (I genuinely mean that), you read a lot about health and you make tons of good arguments and comments. Yet when it comes to veganism you remain stubborn as a mule.  Btw saying this, I am not vegan so I have no horse in this race. 

Hitting 2500 calories on vegan diet is incredibly easy if you plan it right and so is hitting your protein goals. Vegans do eat more legumes than other people but they don't eat "only" legumes. There are so many ways to meet your protein and calorie goals. 

People don't just eat curries with rice or beans with rice. Only the vegans who don't care about their health eat terribly/ With some creativity you can turn your kitchen into a paradise. And honestly, the better I get with plant cooking the more appealing for me it is to eat out because I end up dissapointed a lot. 

take some examples: 

• There is a hundred ways to create pasta dishes all  the way from napolitana to home-made basil pesto, to vegan variations of mac&cheese to, ginger & pumpkin puree, mushroom puree, tofu paste pastas with home made nut roast flavouring. Not to mention that wholegrain and legumes pastas come at 20-28g of protein per 100g which beats the protein content of chicken. And that's just the pasta bit. Add a tofu/mushroom sauce and you get 45g of protein  per portion. 
• You have vegan burritos, quesadillas, tacos and all things in wraps. All the way from Mexican, Korean, Lebanese, Italian, Moroccan, Indian. Endless combinations that would make your mouth water if somebody ever perpared it for you properly. I wish I could send you a sample of my home made Quesadillas (plant based), I bet it would blow your mind. 
• Next , burgers, falafels, nut roasts, wholegrain roasts, all those things where you mash ingredients together and bake them in a specific shape, again hundreds of variations 
• vegan soups - so many flavours and options, you can load tons of protein in vegan soups, not to mention the content of fibre, antioxidants and essential nutrients. Again, I would love to send you a sample of my broccoli, pea, mint, canellini  bean soup, would make you reconsider your position ! 
• risottos and all sorts of rice bowl dishes 
• and I haven't even gone into all the things you can do with obvious protein sources like tofu, tempeh, seitan , natto etc. 

 

So yeah, you're right if you ate rice and beans , then your life would be pretty miserable but once you become good enough you'll realise that all the people who bash on vegan diets being boring and dull actually have the dullest diets themselves eating chicken , potatoes, chips type of foods all the time. They are just too afraid and too brainswashed. 

Btw hope that meme wasn't offensive. I used it jokingly knowing that you can do better

 

I agree about the variety of vegan foods, i was responding to a post about beans.

Otherwise

1) My other comments were mainly in relation to the micro-nutritional composition of meat.

2)I have access to the variety you show, except that i have additional foods that are more local and less expensive, i can inflate my calories quickly and easily with milk, eggs, chicken wings with skin, fatty pork, and fresh sardines, again all local and not too expensive even during inflation.

Bean cakes, tofu or even worse seitan which is probably one of the most allergenic and inflammatory foods in the world will not replace meat in terms of taste, durability or nutrition. + you still haven't explained to me where most of the calories and especially protein come from if they don't come from beans. Virtually they will come from two blocks of tofu per week and pasta.

It's great that you can make hamburgers and the like, the real question is concretely, virtually, what your daily diet will look like, the price, the practicality, the taste and whether it's nutritious or not.

Maybe you manage well and it satisfies you but for me it's just painful.

29 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

 

You're an intelligent dude (I genuinely mean that), you read a lot about health and you make tons of good arguments and comments. Yet when it comes to veganism you remain stubborn as a mule.  

Thanks, you're smart too, too bad you're English and vegan.
We can't be perfect.

[Sugarcoat]

I wouldn't say it's wrong because I understand the vegan perspective and I think it can be reasonable to be angry about people contributing to the suffering of living beings. The thing is that it doesn't WORK most likely. If you shame a meat eater most likely they'll just dislike you and feel attacked and automatically get defensive, thats how the human mind works. Instead a more calm approach, presenting arguments without personal attacks, inviting people to learn, that's probably more efficient. 

[Emerald]

15 hours ago, AION said:

Veganism is not cheaper if you have to factor in all the vitamin pills, doctor pills, blood checks, health problems and hospital bills on the long term. If I was vegan I would have to eat much larger amounts of food to feel satiated. I think some eggs and chicken legs won’t steam roll your bank account if you eat it twice a week. If you count all the hidden costs veganism I think it is more expensive. For example legumes and rice will become boring after a while and you will want avocados and that bad for your wallet and for the environment (because of transportation co2). Of course every diet can be made as cheap or as expensive as you want but if you live in a western country and you are on a budget, getting some fresh cut cheap meats like chicken, eggs or ground beef once a week and eating it in small portions is more accessible and more affordable; and you would still be able to eat your rice, legumes, potatoes and such. It will create a denser diet which will allow you to eat less volume. It is a lesser strain on your body and environment, and healthier. 

I only take and have only ever taken a daily Muti-vitamin. 

The only thing that actually needs to be supplemented is b-12, and you don't even need to take that every day.

And I've never been prescribed "doctor pills" because I'm Vegan. I don't have blood checks. I don't have health problems or hospital bills... and statistically I'm less likely to because I eat a Vegan diet.

Vegan diets are associated with lower instances of all-cause mortality... especially heart attack and stroke compared to an omnivorous diets. That's because there's less saturated fat in the diet which leads to lower levels of LDL cholesterol.

So, Veganism is a great way to avoid the #1 killer in wealthy nations. And higher consumption of plant foods and lower consumption of animal food is associated with health and longevity.

Also, avocados aren't more expensive than meat, unless we're talking about bologna and hot dogs. And most people who eat meat, eat it with every meal. 

And I currently eat about 1800 calories per day and I'm always stuffed because there's a lot of fiber and protein in my diet. There's also a lot of variety because 95% of whole ingredients are Vegan friendly. 

And no... it isn't just rice and legumes. That would be boring. There's lots of different dishes that are Vegan or easily turned Vegan.

[sholomar]

On 1/8/2025 at 10:49 AM, Emerald said:

That's just a fantasy. It's not a real solution.

Plus, 60-80% of farmland is used to feed the meat the we eat. And those are the big mono-crops like corn and soy. 

So, animal agriculture in any form is going to decrease biodiversity because the only way to feed the volume of cows, pigs, and chickens humans eat every year, we need lots of mono-crop farmland.

And it takes 16 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of beef. So, meat is a very inefficient food to produce.

We also use farmland, quite large amounts of it, to grow corn which we turn into ethanol which fuels vehicles which I'm rather questionable is actually a good thing or not, and they're going to push E15 soon over E10.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/