How to stay motivated in a world full of suffering

[Sugarcoat]

13 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

 

No, it is intellectual on my part, hence the use of "we". 

Ok I see. I wouldn’t so much say it’s self created but rather that the way the human self is structured and works at its core creates suffering. So in the same way one doesn’t chose to have an ego at all, it just appears in children, one doesn’t chose how it functions and it’s that which creates suffering. The responsibility is on the individual to try to change it but it’s not so much responsible for creating it I would say. 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

9 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok I see. I wouldn’t so much say it’s self created but rather that the way the human self is structured and works at its core creates suffering. So in the same way one doesn’t chose to have an ego at all, it just appears in children, one doesn’t chose how it functions and it’s that which creates suffering. The responsibility is on the individual to try to change it but it’s not so much responsible for creating it I would say. 

Could be. Yet, on the other hand, you seem to be implying that the self is based on suffering, which, if true, isn’t far from asserting that ‘you’ create suffering (as we confuse us with our selves).

That’s an interesting perspective. I’d add that we might have made this decision unconsciously. It’s tricky not to position oneself in a reactive or victimizing stance about things we have more control over than we think. If it turns out that it is in fact generated by us, then what does it take to experience that as a reality?

[Sugarcoat]

20 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Could be. Yet, on the other hand, you seem to be implying that the self is based on suffering, which, if true, isn’t far from asserting that ‘you’ create suffering (as we confuse us with our selves).

You have a point there. We are the very self that I’m talking about that creates suffering. I’d say we both have an involvement in it and it’s “automatic” at the same time. So let’s take for example the need to fit in and the suffering that comes from being rejected from the social group. We are genetically wired to want to fit in and not be rejected, so the suffering that comes from that is automatic. But maybe at the same time we have a role in it by feeding those negative thoughts, maintaining tension in the body etc. So it’s like it’s both. Which one is greater I don’t know. 
 

20 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

That’s an interesting perspective. I’d add that we might have made this decision unconsciously. It’s tricky not to position oneself in a reactive or victimizing stance about things we have more control over than we think. If it turns out that it is in fact generated by us, then what does it take to experience that as a reality?

I think in general it’s a good idea to be open to the idea of being involved in generating one’s suffering, because let’s say it’s true, then one doesn’t wanna miss out on the opportunity to lessen the suffering rather than just feeling like a victim. So I’m with you there.

[UnbornTao]

On 12/20/2024 at 7:08 PM, Sugarcoat said:

You have a point there. We are the very self that I’m talking about that creates suffering. I’d say we both have an involvement in it and it’s “automatic” at the same time. So let’s take for example the need to fit in and the suffering that comes from being rejected from the social group. We are genetically wired to want to fit in and not be rejected, so the suffering that comes from that is automatic. But maybe at the same time we have a role in it by feeding those negative thoughts, maintaining tension in the body etc. So it’s like it’s both. Which one is greater I don’t know. 
 

We take ourselves to be a self although we should leave the possibility open that it might not be the case at all--I'm distinguishing between our nature, or being, and our selves (self). 

Yes, that can be a minor example, and many more like that one abound. Also, it is much more profound than that. At the very core of self-persistence, surviving itself might be what suffering is based on. This is what the Buddhist phrase "No self, no problem" may be trying to point out. But personally realizing what it is actually saying is a whole different beast than hearing about it and understanding it. 

If we create the self, and if becoming conscious of how we do that is done, then it turns out that a lot of suffering can be transcended. As a reality, I'd imagine this would take some serious work and mind mastery, but it would be doable. 

On 12/20/2024 at 7:08 PM, Sugarcoat said:

I think in general it’s a good idea to be open to the idea of being involved in generating one’s suffering, because let’s say it’s true, then one doesn’t wanna miss out on the opportunity to lessen the suffering rather than just feeling like a victim. So I’m with you there.

We can move in that direction for sure, starting with little things, such as by becoming conscious of what activities such as worry and envy are. 

[Sugarcoat]

16 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

We take ourselves to be a self although we should leave the possibility open that it might not be the case at all--I'm distinguishing between our nature, or being, and our selves (self). 

Yes the self is not questioned by most it seems

16 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Yes, that can be a minor example, and many more like that one abound. Also, it is much more profound than that. At the very core of self-persistence, surviving itself might be what suffering is based on. This is what the Buddhist phrase "No self, no problem" may be trying to point out. But personally realizing what it is actually saying is a whole different beast than hearing about it and understanding it. 

 

Yes exactly the selfs survival agenda creates suffering. Personally realizing this takes a lot of self awareness I believe 

16 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

If we create the self, and if becoming conscious of how we do that is done, then it turns out that a lot of suffering can be transcended. As a reality, I'd imagine this would take some serious work and mind mastery, but it would be doable. 

We can move in that direction for sure, starting with little things, such as by becoming conscious of what activities such as worry and envy are. 

I’m not sure if i agree that we create the self. But we are for sure involved in maintaining it. And we can change that involvement. Once again takes self awareness. Regardless it’s a good idea in general to try to become aware of one’s role in suffering as much as possible to try to minimize it

[Whitney Edwards]

It's only when we work towards our suffering we can end suffering. 

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtBbIBBu6FY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve6UU_9ttbU
 

[UnbornTao]

@Sugarcoat You are still considering suffering to be created by a source external to you. This disposition is the one that's worth challenging. "Yes, I am creating it. It isn't just that I'm participating in it, but rather that I'm actively doing suffering now." To be clear, I'm not referring to the pain of losing a leg or something along these lines, but conceptual-emotional suffering. For example, fear is implicitly suffered--it is enduring an unwanted experience. Yet it is produced by our imagining of the future, among other things. If we weren't imagining a future, fear could not occur. Easier said than done, of course. 

We obviously live as if self were an immutable reality. Where is it found, though? And can one get to a point where she recognizes that it doesn't exist on its own? Seems to be the result of an active process, hence if that process is stopped, we could postulate that self would be largely transcended.

We could, for entertainment's sake, contrast the invention of language with that of self. There's valuable observations to be made with this exercise.

Tricky and fascinating subject. And more profound than we think. 

Edited December 22, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Basman]

On 12/18/2024 at 3:40 PM, UnbornTao said:

Does it?

Might largely be a function of how one sees the world.

Aren't there things being born and flowering all the time, too? Negative bias seems to have an evolutionary root--what needs to be managed takes precedence over what is present, as the latter quickly gets taken for granted. But we don't have to be stuck with it.

Adding to this, we live in an age of unprecedented abundance. Historical material security, political freedom, freedom to travel, freedom from violence, freedom to live your life as you see fit. 

[EdgeGod900]

By restricting your ability to use the internet as much as possible; You wouldn't know much about the frequent murders and negativity in the world without a one-click away access to the internet. Even this forum is a big distraction --ngl I love to sprinkle some of my fucked-up humor on this forum to remind people to not be so serious. 

Anyways, I'm so close to finalizing not paying my internet bill and just going to a public library for the internet, if I need it.  Apps and websites are designed to manipulate our human psychology and tendencies to keep us distracted, because this is what these unconscious tech people need to get our attention, therefore to fund their luxurious lifestyles. 

Cal Newport goes in-depth about this in his book, "Digital Minimalism." Notable things discussed: 1st) the infinite information provided by the internet is inherently distracting, and 2nd) Tech companies hire "attention engineers"(people who find ways to make gambling in Casinos more addicting) to design their apps and websites.

 

Leo also talked about this issue in his "How to stop watching TV" video.

Edited December 23, 2024 by EdgeGod900

[Sugarcoat]

On 2024-12-22 at 10:51 PM, UnbornTao said:

@Sugarcoat You are still considering suffering to be created by a source external to you. This disposition is the one that's worth challenging. "Yes, I am creating it. It isn't just that I'm participating in it, but rather that I'm actively doing suffering now." To be clear, I'm not referring to the pain of losing a leg or something along these lines, but conceptual-emotional suffering. For example, fear is implicitly suffered--it is enduring an unwanted experience. Yet it is produced by our imagining of the future, among other things. If we weren't imagining a future, fear could not occur. Easier said than done, of course. 

We obviously live as if self were an immutable reality. Where is it found, though? And can one get to a point where she recognizes that it doesn't exist on its own? Seems to be the result of an active process, hence if that process is stopped, we could postulate that self would be largely transcended.

We could, for entertainment's sake, contrast the invention of language with that of self. There's valuable observations to be made with this exercise.

Tricky and fascinating subject. And more profound than we think. 

I think it’s worth considering the idea of being the creator of one’s own suffering too.  Because if it happens to be true we don’t wanna miss out on the opportunity to stop it. And questioning the self. In my experience with mental suffering it takes a lot of work to stop something as simple as imagining the future and fearing it, but it’s possible. Tricky and fascinating subject yes.

[quantumspiral]

@Letho Thanks- appreciate this wisdom, there is something deep here.

[quantumspiral]

@Sugarcoat Oh I don't disagree- it's just the suffering of others exists regardless of my suffering. But I am then of course in turn creating my own suffering

[quantumspiral]

@Buck Edwards What do you mean by 'work towards suffering'? 

Having awareness + equanimity to our negative emotions and experiences can dissolve them certainly.

[quantumspiral]

@Leo Gura I like the practicality and groundedness- thanks Leo.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, quantumspiral said:

@Sugarcoat Oh I don't disagree- it's just the suffering of others exists regardless of my suffering. But I am then of course in turn creating my own suffering

If you can realize that you create suffering and then take control then that’s amazing

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Violence is a normal part of nature and reality, it's just that you and me were fed this Disney narrative of how life is suppose to be all peacefull and kubmaya. Humans simply choose to act it out in unnatural ways based on abstract concepts and ideas, and are unnecessarilly cruel. Nature would never reach the level of cruelty human is capable of, but also violence is natural

Edited December 24, 2024 by NewKidOnTheBlock

[Whitney Edwards]

5 hours ago, quantumspiral said:

@Buck Edwards What do you mean by 'work towards suffering'? 

Having awareness + equanimity to our negative emotions and experiences can dissolve them certainly.

You can also take practical steps to end suffering. For example someone quitting a toxic relationship. 

[Letho]

@quantumspiral We are human bodies creating states of consciousness with feedback loops operating at different qualitative densities and intensities that are more or away from the truth of life. We're either always striking at the heart of it, swinging and missing, trying again or denying the endeavour altogether into apathy and worse, "as we all know". Too many humans are either on the spectrum of giving up to complaining and not re-aligning from the inside out. Never stop swinging, never stop mastering the swing and make sure what you're swinging at is your ball to hit.

For beginners, don't feel too humbled by just hitting the ball with a small bunt, you're still far better off than being on that noted negational spectrum, micro progress always supersedes macro stalls/worse. Allow the struggle to define you through your eventual triumph and learn from your mistakes as your guiding light, but for God's sake, choose the right goal, avoid hamburger eating contests look I get the appeal and hey maybe it'll be a confidence booster, but my small suggestion is to just go back to the drawing board and honour the creativity of your minds capacities a little better. But if something like a hamburger contest is what you need reader, hey all power to you and at least you're out socialising and not stuck in your grandmother's basement spending her pension money away to fund your international gaming ambitions, but arguably hey I'm no lawyer (might be an add on in the future) though depending on the context that's even still better than dreaming your life away in a depressive mess that so many struggle to get out of. One small bunt in the right direction. Keep doing that and before you know it. Well, you know the rest.

🎄Best Light🎄

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Letho

[Jwayne]

On 12/17/2024 at 7:03 AM, quantumspiral said:

How do you stay motivated and excited about life when the world contains so much suffering?

1000s of murders per day globally, countless animals in awful factory farms, more than 100 ongoing armed conflicts, human slavery etc

 

Contribute howsoever you can to help those who are hurting. Starting with those closest to you. Begin with your family and friends. Try to be a positive force to brighten the world around you. A lot of people are sad and apathetic and will appreciate the positive vibes.