Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura

Does psychedelics boost that work as well?

Yes. That's why many trips may be needed before breaking through to God. The trips are cleaning up emotional baggage before the really deep metaphysical stuff can appear. The mind may need to reach a certain level of internal conceptual clarity before higher states open up. But not always. A higher state could still also just blindside an unprepared mind. That's what a bad trip usually is.

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So what if I don't have an access to psychedelics (yet) and I want to Awaken, and I'm not much genetically gifted spiritually,  I guess I have to work with what I've got, and as you mentioned elsewhere, the second most powerful thing can be weeks of meditation nonstop.

Yes, hardcore retreats will be required then.

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how can I prepare (clear up the confusion, emotional baggage, trauma, wrong beliefs, ideology, etc) without them?

Therapy-type of work. Shadow work. Deconstructing your beliefs and ideology. Basic self-help.

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My answer to that is basically do the epistemological work that you (and maybe Ralston) teach, question everyting, contemplate a lot sober as well, clean up information intake, make the body as healthy as possible, have some manual spiritual practices even if they don't change the state that much day after day, etc.

What would you say?

Yes, contemplation work is important to lay the intellectual foundation. Awakening/God is not the only objective. You also need to just make other kinds of sense of yourself, your world, other people, and reality. Not everything is about seeing God. A lot of useful inner work can be done without God.

Edited May 7 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

@Leo Gura I guess I better get to work then.

Thanks for the answers.

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The mind may need to reach a certain level of internal conceptual clarity before higher states open up.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44321378-lsd-and-the-mind-of-the-universe

This is a great book I've read just about that, I found it after watching the interview you posted a long time ago of an academic guy who did like 70+ high dose LSD trips over 20 years or something. He documents each of those trips and it's clearly visible how he goes through the layers of first his persona, then the collective stuff and then higher and higher, and the suffering he goes through. 

It's a great book for everyone interested with these questions.

[Jayson G]

@Leo Gura In a lot of these posts related to awakening and truth, these few patterns of thinking keep persisting for me: 

a) Fear, fear of death, fear of life getting altered, fear of going insane, fear of getting dissociated, a lot of fears, and not just the fears themselves but the actual possibilities of such things happening .. 

and then b) why? what even is awakening? (if we can never know through thinking, then what are we even after?) .. and shouldn't the why be far greater than the fear, but how can that desire be so high if there's never been an experience of it to actually motivate oneself? 

.. and I kind of know what you're thinking, that I should want truth for its own sake, and on a relative domain I do, but on an absolute domain, practical things like the fear of death, uncertainty of all kinds prevents it. 

Also on a different level, there are periods or moments in my life, over the past 10 years, where I'm fearless, and I'm genuinely interested in Truth, but still fear and practical obstacles hold me back a lot. In my early 20s I went after Truth far more intensely (maybe somewhat non-genuine) but I would seriously question reality, take psychedelics, etc. but a lot of that left me dissociated, not discovering anything absolute, etc. and so now I have these fears built up. 

I guess I'm hoping you could address some of the more practical obstacles over time. I know you cover Truth from Truth's perspective, but its hard to relate to that often from someone with little direct experience. 

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHUajtPXPDw
 

self inquiry and noting are reverse of the same 

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura In a lot of these posts related to awakening and truth, these few patterns of thinking keep persisting for me: 

a) Fear, fear of death, fear of life getting altered, fear of going insane, fear of getting dissociated, a lot of fears, and not just the fears themselves but the actual possibilities of such things happening ..

Yes, fear is a major obstacle.

How did I overcome the fear? By doing so much psychedelics so many times that eventually I gradually acclimated to it.

If you hold spiders and snakes in your hands enough times eventually you will stop being afraid of them. But the first few times you hold a spider it is scary.

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and then b) why? what even is awakening? (if we can never know through thinking, then what are we even after?)

If feels like your entire visual field is recontextualized as God. Everything you see glows with God's radiance. That's what you're after.

You don't need to think your way to it, just trust that it will eventually happen to you.

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.. and shouldn't the why be far greater than the fear, but how can that desire be so high if there's never been an experience of it to actually motivate oneself?

Well, this is where psychedelics are so useful. If you can get even one short glimpse of God on a psychedelic then you will have a target to aim at and look forward to.

I use my psychedelics memories to motivate me to work towards higher states. But also I'm now conscious enough of God that I can get motivation from just appreciating its beauty, and then aiming for more of that beauty.

Really, the motivation is Beauty. Try switching your motivation from Truth to Beauty. It's about the Beauty of Consciousness. That's what you're really after.

Edited May 7 by Leo Gura

[Jayson G]

@Leo Gura Wow, I didn't even realize how much I needed to hear all this. 

A lot of good insights here and I'll have to screenshot this for later. 

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Really, the motivation is Beauty. Try switching your motivation from Truth to Beauty. It's about the Beauty of Consciousness. That's what you're really after.

I didn't consider this, but this is what I'll exactly do. For years, I cant shake this notion that Truth is this cold, dark, unforgiving, place. I mean I don't know if it is to some degree, but I know my mind is projecting a lot. But Beauty is something I can go after. I can even recognize beauty of consciousness to a small degree even in daily life, so I already have a taste of that. Maybe eventually I can shift more to Truth for its own sake. 

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How did I overcome the fear? By doing so much psychedelics so many times that eventually I gradually acclimated to it.

If you hold spiders and snakes in your hands enough times eventually you will stop being afraid of them. But the first few times you hold a spider it is scary.

This also gives me a lot of hope. I thought fear = it's not for me. But now at least I can entertain the possibility that I can slowly reduce that fear. Psychedelics still scare me, but maybe thousands of hours of shamanic breathing, yoga, etc. may open possibilities for a deeper desire for Truth. 

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

maybe thousands of hours of shamanic breathing, yoga, etc. may open possibilities for a deeper desire

Don't forget to walk a thousand miles.

Edited May 7 by Yimpa

[koops]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But also I'm now conscious enough of God that I can get motivation from just appreciating its beauty, and then aiming for more of that beauty.

What do you mean by this Leo?

If you just remember a state, how are you in your day to day more conscious of God?
How is different before your first awakening? Is just because the memory; or your baseline state (level of day to day consciousness) is higher?

 

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Really, the motivation is Beauty. Try switching your motivation from Truth to Beauty. It's about the Beauty of Consciousness. That's what you're really after.

This is so good. Automatically happened to me.
After my awakening I appreciate even the beauty of a dogshit in the street. For real.

[gengar]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is definitely BS on New Age channels. You gotta be selective about it.

A lot of credible research has been done on remote viewing and ESP. Check out the work of Dean Radin and others. I will not supply you with studies. Go and make the effort to find it. This is not a topic where I will spoon feed you stuff. Either you are serious enough to put in the effort to research it, or you are not.

Thanks for the reference to Dean Radin, but you are making some very incorrect and even arrogant assumptions here - namely that I am not serious, and asking to be spoon fed the studies.

Me asking for the studies is not because I want to skip the work because I am not serious, it's because efficient peer-reviewing of studies is necessary for efficient development of the collective consciousness on these issues. no serious scientist gatekeeps studies because other people "haven't put the work in" , which is what you're doing right now. he shares the studies so they can be quickly peer-reviewed so the truth can be found out. Imagine an archeologist demanding everyone to come to their site and do their own research on it because he "doesn't want to spoon feed people". Do you realize how unscientific this is? It should be quite obvious for a person of your stature so I'm again quite amazed at your childish stance on this.

This work is not about effectiveness or effort, but about truth and nothing else. I admire you for your anti-pragmatism stance when it comes to truth but right now you are contradicting that. I'm kindly asking you to acknowledge this and take back your statement about me wanting to be spoon fed studies, and that it's unscientific of you to demand these silly gate-keeping ways of knowledge. Scientific knowledge is to be peer-reviewed and done so in the most efficient way possible. How childish of you to assume such things of me!

Also, I'm not widely known with the official architecture of academia on the internet, which you clearly are. I could be wasting hours of my time going through unsound or even unauthentic sources. Asking you for some advice on which studies to find is normal - in the case that we are two truth-seekers of equal rank looking for empirical evidence on a matter. Clearly you don't see it this way; You assumed I was asking you as an inferior does to a superior when I was not. In assuming this you thought it'd be a good idea to gatekeep the studies from me and patronize me into doing my own work, like this is some kind of homework assignment. No, I was simply asking a fellow truth-seeker which studies he had studies to come to certain conclusions.

How arrogant of you to assume otherwise!

Leo, I'd like you to introspect in this and notice that you made many assumptions from my questions, presuming your own epistemic superiority and position as a superior to me. Admit to yourself that when discussing these things with your fellow forum members, your position should be as an equal and that you shouldn't default to a position of being a teacher. We're making a quest for empirical evidence here, you're not above that with your silly games of thinking everybody is lazy and unserious. You have no clue how serious or unserious other people are, especially when it comes to things you're no expert in. You're literally making wild claims to your audience of parapsychology existing, yet you slam me when asking for evidence, saying I should put the work in myself. Like you're not the one making these far-fetched claims to your audience. Your audience is large and I'm in a sense protecting them by pushing back against your wild claims. If they turn out to be true, that's that. But the fact you're slamming me for something as simple as asking for studies shows that you're already pretty far down the deep end.

Clearly you've awakened further than most, at least, that is my assumption. But what you're doing right now is really bad, arrogant, childish and against raw truth-seeking. This is not a manner of metaphysics or spirituality, this is simply about studies of content of the universe.

And since you're the one claiming, without showing much skepticism, that remote-viewing exists, the burden of extraordinary proof is on your shoulders, not mine.

Again,

-What mechanism do you postulate by which remote-viewing works in the universe?

-It's not merely that new-age channels are also filled with bullshit, and that there is like a soup including elements of truth but also of bullshit, no, these elements are actively intertwined and used to prove eachother. On the Mishlove channel which you claim is great, remote-viewing, which you claim is sound, is actively used to prove Atlantean pseudo-history and the like. How is this not a dealbreaker for you? Yet you share it to your audience as a "great channel"?

-What is your stance on the Stargate project being terminated by the CIA as described in this CIA report : https://fas.org/irp/program/collect/air1995.pdf
 And what does it say that Mishlove and his guests still cite the Stargate project as being proof of remote-viewing being real?

Anyway, thanks again for the reference to Dean Radin. I'll do my best to make a research out of it, especially now that you've agitated me by claiming that I'm lazy asking to be spoon-fed (which is a radically childish notion for you to say anyway, but okay).

If I make any conclusions I'll share them in this thread, with proper references, like it's supposed to be.


 

Edited May 7 by gengar

[Oppositionless]

@gengar Also the Jake Barber interview talks about how psychics are used to summon UAPs. By studying the phenomenon, it becomes obvious these beings and their craft utilize psychic abilities. I believe they use technology to massively increase their abilities, and in a few hundred or a thousand years humanity will be doing the same. From my anecdotal experience, I can confirm that binaural beats mildly enhance my inutition. Imagine increasing that by 1000x, that's what these aliens are doing. That helps explain why people who see aliens are able to speak telepathically to them, there seems to be a kind of device that creates a field of heightened psychic abilities. 

Edited May 7 by Oppositionless

[gengar]

14 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

@gengar Also the Jake Barber interview talks about how psychics are used to summon UAPs. By studying the phenomenon, it becomes obvious these beings and their craft utilize psychic abilities. I believe they use technology to massively increase their abilities, and in a few hundred years humanity will be doing the same. From my anecdotal experience, I can confirm that binaural beats mildly enhance my inutition. Imagine increasing that by 1000x, that's what these aliens are doing.

See, that is what makes me even more skeptical, that the remote-viewing is conveniently connected to the UAP phenomena, two things that, by themselves, don't need to be connected with eachother for any reason. Yet their connection is of course that they are both enjoyed speculating and believed in by the new-age crowd. So how convenient that these two things end up being connected and that you can supposedly summon UAP using remote-viewing like you're summoning Epona in Zelda using your flute?

It's not that I disbelieve in these things, and in fact, I want them to be true. I want nothing more than these things to be real, that we have some more innate power than our darwinistic, physicalist functions in this life, that are only made for survival in the physical. That we are not alone on this awful world full of egoes, that we are looked over by benevolent aliens with their alien technology. Yet precisely because I want that and am so interested, is why my stance is so skeptical. Otherwise I'll get lost in the current of fantasy which I have so much experience in already, believe me. We should try to falsify all this 100x times and if it turns out to be unfalsifiable, only then should we accept it to be true.

Answer me this then:

If remote-viewing is real and accessible, why don't companies like Leo's idea of T-rex scavenging already widely exist? If there is anything that incentivizes wide adoption of remote-viewing, it's profit seeking. If it's so easy to remote view, where are all these scavenging companies? Do you really think Leo was the first one with that idea? Where are the companies? It should be all over the news if such companies exists. That is how the flow of knowledge works. Yet it doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, have you personally read the studies and the work of Dean Radin that Leo referenced? are they sound?

Anyway, good luck with your efforts. Keep us posted with your work.

 

Edited May 7 by gengar

[Oppositionless]

@gengar

You know I'm really not sure why more companies aren't using it. But I think part of it has to do with the fact that remote viewing is a super rare skill, highly genetic, and basically impossible for someone without a genetic disposition to learn without some kind of technological enhancement like I suspect aliens use.

As for why it's connected to the UAP phenomenon, I think you could reframe it. Instead of saying "it's a red flag that both these new age ideas are converging" you could say "it's obvious that if this phenomenon is real beings way more developed than us would weaponize it."

I did read two books by Radin, Supernornal and Entangled Minds. I thought they were intriguing but not conclusive, because it's such a small effect you gotta take thousands of trials and compute the statistics on them. And some skeptics have pointed out there could be a "file drawer" effect where negative studies aren't published. That's why my belief comes primarily from the more dramatic experiences people have with UAP telepathy than the studies.

Edited May 7 by Oppositionless

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura But Beauty is something I can go after. I can even recognize beauty of consciousness to a small degree even in daily life, so I already have a taste of that. Maybe eventually I can shift more to Truth for its own sake.

Eventually you'll discover that Truth and Beauty are identical. All the consciousness you experience in daily life is the Beauty/Truth that we're talking about and seeking. You seek a deeper connection/recognition of the Truth/Beauty of your present consciousness. That's all. Don't think of Truth as some far away dark thing. Truth is your present visual field.

1 hour ago, koops said:

What do you mean by this Leo?

If you just remember a state, how are you in your day to day more conscious of God?
How is different before your first awakening? Is just because the memory; or your baseline state (level of day to day consciousness) is higher?

I both remember very deep states and I'm also very clear that any state I'm in is God. So even though I'm not in a crazy high state right now, I'm still aware that my default state is God. This is different than before because I didn't recognize my default state as God before. First you learn to recognize God in the high states. Then you learn to recognize God in the low states. So eventually all states are seen as God. That's the goal.

Do not dismiss the power of memories of higher states. Spiritual teachers love to poo-poo this as memories not being real. But powerful memories serve as pointers to God, much more powerful pointers than any words from a spiritual teacher. I can just think of a psychedelic memory and it shifts my state in the right direction or brings profound new insights.

It is much better to have memories of higher states than to not have them.

Edited May 7 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, gengar said:

but you are making some very incorrect and even arrogant assumptions here - namely that I am not serious

I am happy to be wrong on that point. If you are serious, go ahead and do the research.

It is not hard to type in: "ESP research studies" into Google or ChatGPT.

Edited May 7 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

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So even though I'm not in a crazy high state right now, I'm still aware that my default state is God.

@Leo Gura Isn't having a no sense of self required to be aware of God? Is it possible to still have a sense of ego self and simultaneously be aware of God?

So you being aware that your default state is God doesn't require loss of your sense of being "Leo". Is that correct?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura Is it possible to still have a sense of ego self and simultaneously be aware of God?

Yes.

That's my situation.

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So you being aware that your default state is God doesn't require loss of your sense of being "Leo". Is that correct?

Correct. Although your wording is weird because I see Leo as God. So there's not a contradiction for me.

The word "Leo" is a just a pointer to a field of Consciousness which is God. But then within this field of Consciousness there is also a Leo ego/self-image. That self-image could come or go, but God is the whole field and everything in the field. But properly speaking Leo should refer to the whole field of Consciousness, since that whole field is my life. Leo isn't just the body or the self-image, Leo is the entire field that constitutes my life. Leo is everything I am conscious of. And so is God.

Edited May 7 by Leo Gura

[Peo]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not dismiss the power of memories of higher states

While i do agree. I find it difficult to imagine those higher states while sober, the memories just become more blury especially on higher dose of psychedelics.

Also i know some of you guys experience higher states on weed (Not me). Weed is even worse since your memories just fade away fast, like there a gaps in your memory in that time when your high in my experience. 

[The Crocodile]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Really, the motivation is Beauty. Try switching your motivation from Truth to Beauty. It's about the Beauty of Consciousness. That's what you're really after.

What if something is false but Beautiful?

What if your whole path ends up being false but more Beautiful. I want you to be open-minded to that.

Is it fine to disregard truth if the truth ends up being inferior, to allowing falsehood?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Peo said:

While i do agree. I find it difficult to imagine those higher states while sober, the memories just become more blury especially on higher dose of psychedelics.

Also i know some of you guys experience higher states on weed (Not me). Weed is even worse since your memories just fade away fast, like there a gaps in your memory in that time when your high in my experience. 

I have extremely clear memories of many of the trips dating back 5+ years. I clearly remember all my most important trips and realizations. I can replay them in my head and get a mild high from it. Including weed.

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Peo said:

memories just fade away fast, like there a gaps in your memory in that time when your high in my experience. 

I AM in your experience!

Edited May 7 by Yimpa