Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[aurum]

There's a deep irony when you look at the dark side vs light side IRL.

Superficially, they both reject external authority. 

But the dark replaces external authority with complete self-bias. While the light side replaces external authority with truth.

The light side also integrates the dark side, while the dark side cannot integrate the light side.

[Basman]

I remember watching a video essay about the Jedi order of the prequels essentially being corrupt, complacent and detached (relatively speaking) after years of stagnation and getting too attached to political affairs as an institution. Their methodology inadvertently got influenced by the pragmatic survival needs of state power, such as mediating conflict and enforcement. The corruption of the senate was a bad influence, and Obi wan arguably reflects that as he is from the same order.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Basman

[gettoefl]

6 hours ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

@Leo Gura What happened to good/bad being relative? It sounds like you’re saying that it’s absolute now, which is kind of shocking. 

If reality is a dream, why does it matter if you lie to one of the dream characters? You’re dreaming yourself lying too, so it’s all a dream within a dream. There’s no actual morality in a dream.

Honestly, Star Wars is very stage blue in terms of morality, very us vs them (Jedi vs Sith). I’m surprised that you’re holding it in such high regard.

You dream for one reason. To wake up refreshed with all junk processed to live exuberantly. When you dream you suffer. Do you notice? And you make your reflections suffer too. Dreaming is but a glorified suffering asylum for yourselves. Why subject yourselves for a moment longer then absolutely necessary. The only morality is opening your eyes.

[Davino]

I really like your content on being wrong. It has been one of the greatest boosters in my life and it's so counterintuitive, we are deeply programmed to avoid being wrong, which then makes us to not admit it when we actually are.

Admitting that one is wrong is the only way for progress. In my job and personal life I'm really thankful when someone points out a wrong doing of mine, it always stings, but then I'm able to see a blind spot, heal and improve.

A great way of assessing someone's character is when you give them feedback, see how they take it. Some people resist greatly, go on denial and excuse mode, but the wise quickly realize it, thank you and work on it. 

Realising one is wrong is a huge blessing and the door for being right and good.

[Yimpa]

8 hours ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

It sounds like you’re saying that it’s absolute now, which is kind of shocking. 

 

[Yimpa]

We Are SOOOO Back Baby

[UnbornTao]

Moralizing ain't true, nor is it about what's true. It's based on a subjective system of values and is invented.

Regarding being wrong, there's also the very real possibility of not recognizing that one is wrong, and being unwilling to consider anything beyond that. (Psychedelics, anyone?). Wink wink

[Basman]

@Leo Gura What about super rich and famous people who can get sex whenever and can afford to treat women as sex objects? Aren't they sexually satisfied?

[Onecirrus]

If freeing a child from slavery doesn’t justify manipulation, then I don’t know what would. Jedi historically are completely consumed by survival, politics, and war. Completely aligning with truth would probably be nothing short of mahasamadhi, which Obi wan achieved

Edited 7 hours ago by Onecirrus

[Onecirrus]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why mind-trick stormtroppers when you could just fight them? Or perhaps some kind of Force power like a smoke cloud.

Smoke cloud would still be deception, right? I suppose stabbing them to death is less deceptive, but outside of self defense, it’s far more evil than a mind trick, totally unnecessary 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

Smoke cloud would still be deception, right?

Nah. Smoke cloud to escape is not a violation of truth.

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Basman said:

@Leo Gura What about super rich and famous people who can get sex whenever and can afford to treat women as sex objects? Aren't they sexually satisfied?

No. Look at David Duchovney. He was a famous sex addict who had a miserable life.

[Davino]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Regarding being wrong, there's also the very real possibility of not recognizing that one is wrong, and being unwilling to consider anything beyond that. (Psychedelics, anyone?). 

That's the whole difficulty of being wrong, that one thinks it's right. 

How do you make someone see when he's deceiving itself? (Open question)

And even more importantly, how con one detect its own self deception and trickery?

For example let's say I'm wrong about psychedelics what is the epistemological procedure to arrive to the truth of the matter. Should I take more psychedelics? Stop psychedelics? Read from other people pros and cons? Does psychedelic work for some things but not for others? Etc. Open contemplation again

Edited 6 hours ago by Davino

[Basman]

You can't domesticate zebras because their assholes, which makes sense because they're basically donkeys with attitude (which is saying something). They are not horses with stripes but roid raging donkeys in pajamas. 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Basman

[Joseph Maynor]

No one is morally relativistic consistently.  Even those who say there is no right and wrong operate with ethics, as much as they try to deny this.  It's better to be honest and admit that all of us operate with a sense of right and wrong. 

[Onecirrus]

Jedi turning to selfishness or corruption has almost always been depicted as a bad thing with incredible consequences 

[Onecirrus]

There was the concept of the perfect Jedi that Jedi aspired to be, it was an ideal, something to pursue for life. But finite beings can never really achieve this, which makes Star Wars very honest about the ways of this universe. Enlightened masters have been fucking up for all of history. I like Martin Ball, but he has his flaws and hangups, especially his fan fiction about trump he’s posted on his YouTube channel.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

That's the whole difficulty of being wrong, that one thinks it's right. 

How do you make someone see when he's deceiving itself? (Open question)

And even more importantly, how con one detect its own self deception and trickery?

For example let's say I'm wrong about psychedelics what is the epistemological procedure to arrive to the truth of the matter. Should I take more psychedelics? Stop psychedelics? Read from other people pros and cons? Does psychedelic work for some things but not for others? Etc. Open contemplation again

It's certainly not an intellectual process.

Be brutally honest with yourself. That's the first step, and essentially the only one. Don't pretend one thing is another, or that something is happening when it isn't. Don't misrepresent. Pay attention, listen to feedback, stay open.

Ask yourself: is this a belief - something that requires a mental leap? Do I just want this to be true?

Take Adi Da as an example. We grant that he actually knew what he was talking about. The word actually matters - it's what earns him our respect. So when he asserts that psychedelics don't increase consciousness or lead to enlightenment, what do we make of that?

After genuine consideration: even if we think we understand what he's saying, we're probably wrong. So we take him at his word - not blindly, but in a specific sense: we acknowledge there's something we're not currently getting. That we don't truly know what he means by enlightenment or realization. That our own awakenings may be something else entirely, if we believed the substances lead there.

In short: realize what he realized. Which, to be clear, no one does. If you think you do, you may be deceiving yourself in a fairly significant way - and the fundamental difference in stance on this topic is itself the evidence of that.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Onecirrus said:

especially his fan fiction about trump he’s posted on his YouTube channel.

What?? Lol

[Onecirrus]

@Leo Gura Around Christmas, he posted a narrated story titled something like “The tale of Mr poopy headed douchebag”, it was about trump and in exploits in a weird fairy tale style, I think he deleted it.