Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[PurpleTree]

36 minutes ago, zazen said:

India and China

Russia

Hungary and Slovakia, 

All slimy gross autocrats.

[zazen]

10 hours long, but last part (1.5hr) is on Ukraine which is very good. Scott Hortons a encyclopaedia:

The last half hour is especially good. From 9hr 51min.

[Ajay0]

22 hours ago, BlueOak said:

 

@Ajay0Both your statements are false.

1) Russia's stated nuclear doctrine is for a large-scale invasion of Russian territory, nuclear attacks against Russia or its allies.

Then why is Putin threating nuclear weapon strikes on nato in the ukraine war.

Here is what the upgraded military doctrine of russia says :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_doctrine_of_Russia

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Under the new doctrine, Russia continues to develop and modernize its nuclear capability. "Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it or its allies, and also in case of aggression against Russia with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is threatened."[11] Most military analysts believe that, in this case, Russia would pursue an 'escalate to de-escalate’ strategy, initiating limited nuclear exchange to bring adversaries to the negotiating table. Russia will also threaten nuclear conflict to discourage initial escalation of any major conventional conflict.

 

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China and India's size doesn't translate into superiority. The west has a large technological edge, neither of these country's have the ability to project power globally like the US. They don't have the combat experience, and NATO has tightly integrated strategic structures and command protocols, whereas China and India have divergent interests and strategic aims.

 Then how would you rationalize American defeats in Korea, Vietnam as well as the recent NATO-US defeat in Afghanistan in 2021 after 20 years of fighting, heavy casualties and trillions of dollars down the drain.

Nato also left behind billions of dollars of military equipment which the Taliban parades regularly as trophies of war, and which has probably ended in Chinese-Russian hands for reverse engineering.

War mongering by the US against the world has also resulted in a large 36 trillion dollar debt for which the US has to pay hundreds of billions just for the interests each year.

This is one of the reaons why Trump is not in favor of further war-mongering as he  realizes that the gigantic debt can become a white elephant for the US in the long run if it is not managed properly, potentially leading to its economic downfall.

Due to constant war-mongering , the US has a large ex-military population wracked with physical injuries and PTSD, depression and suicidability as per statistics and which demand expensive medical care.

Constant warmongering has also created war fatigue in the American population who believes their tax dollars are enriching the miltiary-industrial complex capitalists, instead of tackling growing social issues like homelesness, mass shootings, expensive healthcare and education, higher costs of living and inflation disproportionate to any income hikes.

You can see numerous videos on the same highlighting discontentment in the American middle and lower classes who owns just a negligible segment of the national wealth, which much of it concentrated in the hands of the upper classes.

The two world wars which originated in europe killing over a hundred million people has similarly created low morale, war-weariness and fatigue in europe and consequently is one of the reasons why there is a lot of discontentment within nato ranks as they don't want to face an another traumatic and catastrophic war like the two world wars.

 

Edited Monday at 04:55 AM by Ajay0

[zazen]

11 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

All slimy gross autocrats.

Slimy is also having no backbone or foresight to do what’s in your national or continental interest. Slimy is not getting to the bottom of Nordstream or despite doing so not releasing the relevant information because your scared of the consequences.

Slimy is doing fuck all about the self inflicted wounds their lack of foresight or leadership cause, then licking them in some moral highground while your peoples quality of life deteriorate for a larger geopolitical game you have little say in.

Slimy is sitting like schools kids around Trump praising him for establishing a diplomatic channel with Putin when they could have simply picked up the phone and done so themselves. I mean, the war is literally on their continent not Americas - so it’s in their interest to deal with it and bring it to an end.

If Tucker Carlson could get a sit down with Putin, no excuse for Euro studs to get a call. Instead, they bitch cry about how they aren’t part of talks that will decide the fate of their continent, after they’ve stonewalled any such talks for 3.5 years like some cult bought into the idea of Putin the new Hitler who’s country needs to be balkanized - as Kaja Kalllas said.

Guess we’re going to enjoy the 5% GDP on defence spending, cuts to welfare and further political polarization to the right which nationalists foaming at the mouth will resist and revolt over. Enjoy lol

I see many videos of talks of a civil war in UK racking up 10s to 100s of thousands of views. Just see the comments to get the sentiment. I know a client who works in special forces / counter terrorism and he said they’re also predicting/prepping for this worst case scenario. But we’re to believe all these men will go to war to fight an external country like Russia when they see the enemy is within.

 

Edited Monday at 06:54 AM by zazen

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

 

 

 

Yea imo Europe kind of effed up by letting in so many migrants and refugees. Especially from certain areas. It’s just quite destabilising. That’s my biggest issue with the left also because they don’t think it’s an issue. The more the merrier. And oh no we aren’t "good people" if we don’t let em in or kick them out. Anyway Yolo hihi.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea imo Europe kind of effed up by letting in so many migrants and refugees. Especially from certain areas. It’s just quite destabilising. That’s my biggest issue with the left also because they don’t think it’s an issue. The more the merrier. And oh no we aren’t "good people" if we don’t let em in or kick them out. Anyway Yolo hihi.

Europe has a population crisis, too few births.

This may seem like a small issue but it could collapse the entire economic pyramid scheme based on debt, based on keeping the music playing so the house of cards doesn't collapse.

I don't support open borders, and actually don't think economic collapse is as bad as most people do, but, another huge benefit to immigration is the connection to the rest of the world. With the ending of imperialism, we're entering a stage of diplomacy, and diversity will help greatly with that, not only on paper but through personal connections to other countries. I support only limited immigration, but it's a moving target.

Your comment about not being good people, some groups are genocided, you're not good if you don't help them. 

Edited Monday at 11:50 AM by Elliott

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Europe has a population crisis, too few births.

This may seem like a small issue but it could collapse the entire economic pyramid scheme based on debt, based on keeping the music playing so the house of cards doesn't collapse.

I don't support open borders, and actually don't think economic collapse is as bad as most people do, but, another huge benefit to immigration is the connection to the rest of the world. With the ending of imperialism, we're entering a stage of diplomacy, and diversity will help greatly with that, not only on paper but through personal connections to other countries. I support only limited immigration, but it's a moving target.

Your comment about not being good people, some groups are genocided, you're not good if you don't help them.

 I never claimed to be a "good people"

actually i did and i was a people pleaser  but that kind of out the window now hopefully and i’m glad because it was a trap.

But i agree that we need to let this infinite growth capitalism paradigm go.

Edited Monday at 11:37 AM by PurpleTree

[Elliott]

17 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

But i agree that we need to let this infinite growth capitalism paradigm go.

The population concern isn't for growth, it's to maintain the status quo, there will be another great depression if the music stops.

Quote

I never claimed to be a "good people"

 

actually i did and i was a people pleaser but that kind of out the window now hopefully and i’m glad because it was a trap.

Even if you're immoral, you or your descendants could be genocided next. Always good for you to encourage a thoughtful society.

Edited Monday at 11:53 AM by Elliott

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Elliott said:

The population concern isn't for growth, it's to maintain the status quo, there will be another great depression if the music stops.

Who cares bro I did water fasts for 9 days. Yolo hihi.

[Elliott]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Who cares bro I did water fasts for 9 days. Yolo hihi.

Why else do you care about immigration if not for the effects it has on you economically?

[PurpleTree]

19 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Why else do you care about immigration if not for the effects it has on you economically?

Because of crime. Change of society. People not integrating. Foreigners bullying locals. Not respecting the culture and so on. People gaming the system.

 

Totally different cultures and mindsets (which is fine if it’s not in mass amounts)

People from countries coming to Europe and then supporting authoritarian dictators and enemies of Europe online. 5th column (looking at you zazen )

 

 

But it’s just an opinion.

But these are just the bad sides of immigration obviously there are also many good sides. 

Edited Monday at 12:24 PM by PurpleTree

[Elliott]

33 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Because of crime. Change of society. People not integrating. Foreigners bullying locals. 

Have you seen immigrant crime where you live? How do they bully locals?

Edited Monday at 12:44 PM by Elliott

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Have you seen immigrant crime where you live? How do they bully locals?

Yea a lottt. 

And i went to a pretty tough school (although over 20 years ago)

So i‘ve seen quite a lot. And nobody can tell me otherwise. But also i‘ve seen good stuffs.

Anyway Yolo hihi

[zazen]

On 23/08/2025 at 11:46 AM, zazen said:

I agree the election point is bogus on the Russian side. As if a country can or should hold one when a quarter of the population are unavailable to vote

Just learnt this today: 

[Elliott]

13 hours ago, zazen said:

Just learnt this today: 

Russia has more nukes than NATO, why would NATO attack Russia.

Edited Wednesday at 12:45 PM by Elliott

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, zazen said:

Just learnt this today: 

The fundamental flaw with this logic is that Russia has no right or authority to control the constitution of any other sovereign nation but itself.

If Ukrainians want to write such a constitution, that is their right.

Russia treats Ukraine like a vassal. This kind of attitude is why NATO exists in the first place. Russia is like an abusive ex-boyfriend who thinks he can veto who the woman can date. This is the mentality of a self-absorbed barbarian.

[zazen]

On 19/08/2025 at 10:36 PM, zazen said:

When nuclear powers are involved, these noble principles about sovereignty and agency become secondary to the primary imperative which is: don’t blow up the planet.

It’s better to be 80% sovereign and alive, than 100% sovereign and dead.

International laws written in ink don’t somehow erase survival and power dynamics that can end up being settled in blood.

Laws and rights are our noble attempt to buffer against might and the laws of the jungle - but they don’t erase or deny that the jungle exists. Likewise, marriage contracts don’t eliminate sexual desire for others.

Paper doesn’t negate the primal instincts it seeks to contain. We nurture (through principle) nature (power dynamics) to the best of our ability.

Russia didn’t invade Ukraine because they suddenly forgot international law exists. They did it because they calculated that NATO expansion posed a greater existential threat than laws telling them their in wrong for breaking those laws.

Jungle logic overrides legal logic when survival is at stake - so best avoid putting it at stake. You don’t bring about security by making another power insecure in crossing their red lines - but by acknowledging them.

What should the US do if Russia or China were to build military infrastructure in Mexico? Or UK if Russia or China were to do the same in Scotland? The Cuban missile crisis happened did it not?

 

On 23/08/2025 at 11:46 AM, zazen said:

 
What a change of tone from 2022. Zelensky became too deeply committed off the back of Western backing and promises. It became increasingly difficult for him to backtrack due to various reasons: sunk cost, domestic politics (hardliners), further dependence on the West which means Zelensky isn’t leading Ukrainian strategy but implementing Western strategy with Ukrainian blood. That’s the cost of playing the proxy game when your an ant among elephants fighting.

How sovereign and autonomous is Ukraine today? Ukraine’s attempt to achieve 100% sovereignty has resulted in near total loss of actual sovereignty, while the rejected neutrality option would have preserved most of it.

Ukraine chose the path that promised 100% sovereignty but delivered perhaps 15% actual sovereignty across all domains - energy, economy, military.

Liberals have convinced themselves that the 1648 Peace of Westphalia created some kind of magical force field around every country where they get to do whatever they want without consequences. As if “sovereignty” means freedom from the basic realities of great power politics that have governed international relations for millennia. It’s the flat earth theory of geopolitics and how the world works.

@Leo Gura I agree in heart, but my head knows that laws, rights and principles are aspirations rooted in the soul, articulated in the mind, but constrained by a physical material reality. I can aspire to the stars like Elon musk but that doesn’t suspend the reality and fact of gravity or physics.

The fundamental flaw in the logic of liberal internationalism is that whilst rights and principles are better to live by, they don’t erase power dynamics or override security / survival imperatives. Legality can’t and will never override survivability, principles will never override power, rights will never override might - they can only regulate them.

Just like you‘ve been pointing out how progressives / liberals under-appreciate survival dynamics which hasn’t helped them politically. Same applies here?

Countries and people have rights, but countries and people also have instincts - and instincts precede intellect the same way power precedes principle, or the physical precedes the mental abstractions (constructs) of law.

Sovereignty doesn’t exist in a vacuum and neither should it be romanticised as an absolute that overlooks the relative world in which it lives - ignoring reality until the consequences of doing so assert themselves.

US led Western hegemony is self-absorbed to the point it doesn’t recognise other powers exist with their own sphere and red lines - they think the whole world is their dominion and sphere.  That’s the mindset which has set the conditions in motion for what’s occurring now.

Edited Wednesday at 06:19 AM by zazen

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

Russia is has more nukes than NATO, why would NATO attack Russia.

And yet they’ve been crazy enough to flirt with NATO lite in Ukraine despite repeated warnings from their own intelligence and strategists. It deters total war not limited war.

Nuclear deterrence doesn’t guarantee that conventional or limited war won’t take place - just see India Pakistan recently. It leaves too little gap for error and creates a constant state of tension existing that any power would resist having if they could.

They are essentially living by tripwire Armageddon - hoping false flags won’t take place.

One nation can be crazy enough to call the bluff of the other not using nuclear which would result in mutually assured destruction. So conventional security logic and strategic depth still apply.

 

[Daniel Balan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The fundamental flaw with this logic is that Russia has no right or authority to control the constitution of any other sovereign nation but itself.

If Ukrainians want to write such a constitution, that is their right.

Russia treats Ukraine like a vassal. This kind of attitude is why NATO exists in the first place. Russia is like an abusive ex-boyfriend who thinks he can veto who the woman can date. This is the mentality of a self-absorbed barbarian.

Spot on. Ultimately all the pro Russian naratives are wrong because the fact that this very war is happening is the ultimate reason why Ukraine should be in NATO. Had Russia expressed its "security" concerns via heavy economical sanctions on Ukraine, maybe Ukraine should have dropped the NATO aspirations, but since for 3 and a half years the people of Ukraine are slaughtered, their cities are demolished and so on, by a state that has waged non stop wars since the end of the cold war, Ukraine has all the rights in the world to desire to join NATO. The very war that is happening is proof that Ukraine should be in NATO.

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

Had Russia expressed its "security" concerns via heavy economical sanctions on Ukraine, maybe Ukraine should have dropped the NATO aspirations.

Russia could have just kept destabilising and dropping lots of propaganda and buying politicians etc. It probably would have been very successful. Russian propaganda is very successful we see it with some posters here.

But as i said before i think Putin trusts no one so he’s getting older and will die. Russian demographics getting worse. US has Trump. BricS stronger. So thia was the last moment for Russia in Putins eyes imo.