Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[BlueOak]

@zazen

1) If Russia is suffering so bad economically and militarily I don't see why they would escalate to that level by attacking a NATO country. 

I advocate for a regional focus, but in this context, Zazen you are need a larger one. If BRICS fights NATO, Russia can take Estonia. Because NATO will be busy all over the globe. Nuclear war isn't happening over an invasion. I am not even sure all countries would go to fight either, are you? Can you imagine Hungary going to fight Russia over Estonia? Collectivists need to understand NATO is many voices, and when pressed, they won't always align.

2) China and India couldn't care less about European security. No action they've taken even suggests it. I'm open for you to prove this otherwise with actions, not just words. Authoritarian countries speak through actions; their words are largely meaningless. At the moment, every action they've taken says the exact opposite.

Again - Russia didn't place itself in NATO expansions way, it was the other way round. 

3) Yes it did. After all this you still don't see the other side of this.
Russia project fear, threats and violence. Russia was directly responsible for other countries joining a defensive alliance to resist them.
Just like I can understand a larger power fighting against its decline to a regional power, and using all these tools to try and remake the USSR, or push their influence outward. I also understand that as Russia declines, it loses its sphere. You can't understand that. You think it's entitled to a sphere for its mere existence. No, not if it's too weak to project it relative to its neighbours. 

The EU should recognize its own security interests by dealing with a non-EU member like Ukraine hitting the Druzhba pipeline which provides energy to two EU member states.

4) Your logic doesn't make sense. Europe prosecuting the country directly responsible for ensuring and fighting for their security interests is like some twisted Russia state TV babble. I might as well say BRICS should prosecute Russia for dragging them closer to the brink of war, completely nonsensical when that's how BRICS aligning itself anyway, as a direct competitor to NATO.

This is war zazen. You take out your opponent's economy in war, its been a long time coming. Russia is acting like Germany, which tried to project it had a healthy economy all the way to the end of WW2, when in reality they were broke.

Given BRICS material and manpower support to Russia, the delay in really arming Ukraine to fully win, the only win state here for Europe. if Putin will not negotiate peace, is the destruction of the Russian economy. Otherwise, WW3 is a possibility, and that 'win state' could hardly be called a win for anyone.  - Though what's practically happening is steady economic pressure.
 

Edited yesterday at 06:26 AM by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

Russian dirty bomb threats to the north of Ukraine and Sub threats against a US carrier group.

All tests to see the response. Just like the false flag against Estonia and others, just like the drones into Poland and the Baltics, just like the nuclear threats against everyone, just like the build ups in Kaliningrad. 
 

 

Edited yesterday at 06:18 AM by BlueOak

[Leo Gura]

On 8/26/2025 at 11:13 PM, zazen said:

The fundamental flaw in the logic of liberal internationalism is that whilst rights and principles are better to live by, they don’t erase power dynamics or override security / survival imperatives.

Yes, this is true.

But in the end this is a risk the Ukrainian people chose for themselves. They wanted to turn towards the West. Is there a price to pay for that? Yup.

Putin the like OJ Simpson watching his ex-wife through the bushes. Unfortunately this ends badly for the wife.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, this is true.

But in the end this is a risk the Ukrainian people chose for themselves. They wanted to turn towards the West. Is there a price to pay for that? Yup.

The war itself proves that Ukraine choose the correct path. The war itself proves that their decision to ditch Russia to the trash can was the right one. Russia has enslaved the Ukrainian people for the last 300 years. Russia wants a sphere of influence? Then they better learn to behave towards other nations, for that they have waged non stop wars since the cold war, yet they act shocked when Ukraine told them to fuck themselves when the Russians tried for the last 30 years to install puppet governments in Ukraine. Ukrainian people told them that they want nothing to do with Russia. Had Russia been a more sane society, they'd develop themselves so in the future other countries want on their own volition to be their friends, but no, they decided to level to the ground an entire nation just because they don't agree with their pro western values orientation. That's precisely why NATO exists, so that no country is forced to eat the shit Russians are selling. 

And the reason Russia is so afraid of Ukraine joining the western world is because if Ukraine liberalizes and becomes westernised, that will automatically export to Russia and the people of Russia will demand the same for Russia, this meaning the end of the kleptocracy instaurated by the gang of thieves that rule Russia today.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Daniel Balan said:

The war itself proves that Ukraine choose the correct path.

I don't know about that.

The price for them has been too high.

[Daniel Balan]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know about that.

The price for them has been too high.

Yes, it is a humanitarian tragedy. But this very tragedy shows how evil Russia truly is, and that it was the correct thing to do to dare to exit from its sphere of influence. After all if the massacre happening in Ukraine is what Russia is offering, it is the right thing to do to align with the west and ditch the friendship with Russia for good. 

Also the justifications and the framing done by Russians is disgusting, calling Ukraine a nazi state. This is ludicrous. By all historical accounts Russia is the one behaving like Nazi Germany, not Ukraine. The war made Ukraine very nationalistic, which is expected when a neighbouring Russia wants to make Ukraine their colony the same way the Ottomans did with Eastern Europe. 

[Daniel Balan]

Also those Russians want not only Ukraine but all of eastern Europe as their sphere of influence, in the name of a multi polar world. 

I'm so glad NATO expanded after the cold war, I'm so glad I'm part of the EU. Before the EU you couldn't open a little shop here, because you'd have to pay protection taxes to various mafia gangs or they'd destroy your shop. This is the model of governance that comes along with the Russian sphere of influence. Before the EU if you wanted a piece of propery that was owned by a poor farmer, you'd just bribe the ones in charge with the property deeds and the mayors and his underlings would expropriate that poor farmer if you had enough money to bribe the local authorities and if the farmer had no political rich friends. This is what the Russians are selling to the countries in their spheres of influence. Had my country been under Russian influence right now, I wouldn't even have access to Youtube and this forum, and I'd be paid 10$/day to shovel shit 24/7 at some rich Romanian oligarc farm that sucks Russian dick to have this power here locally.

Why would anyone want to be enslaved by the Russian way of doing things just for Multi Polarity? Fuck multi polarity, fuck Russia, and fuck anyone who supports and justifies what Russia is doing in Ukriane. Anyone who is sided with Russia in this conflict is a shameless, corrupt, evil devil who needs to move to Russia to feel on their own skin what the Russian system looks like. 

 

[Daniel Balan]

I see in my country only the most corrupt devils that look with admiration towards Russia, those people are always complaining that they hate that the actual government force them to pay the minimum wage for their employees. 

Imagine being such a devil that you don't even want to pay 500€ a month to a human that works from dawn till dusk for you. Those devils want to pay their workers 150€ a month the same way it was before the EU. 

Only the people that could no longer enslave their workers they way they did before the EU, want my country back in the Russian sphere of influence. This is the reason why the west expanded eastwards. To modernize and to bring development to eastern Europe. If Russia wants a sphere of influence they should move to another planet to find one, because here on earth no one deserves to be a slave all their life for the ones that suck Russian cock for power.