Gender Fluidity should be an Adult topic

[Extreme Z7]

And mostly mature, higly-developed adults at that.
(Or at the very least mature and developed teenagers, since I'm aware of the bullying problem with gender-disphoric teens)

Pushing Gender Fluidity to kids is like pushing for Socialism or Feminism in most 3rd world countries.

Gender is a social construct, but that doesn't mean we should allow everyone to just play around with whatever constructs they like unless they know how to be careful about it.

Thoughts?

[Adrian colby]

1 hour ago, Extreme Z7 said:

 Gender is a social construct, but that doesn't mean we should allow everyone to just play around with whatever constructs they like unless they know how to be careful about it.

Thoughts?

Waking up to social constructs is a phase in evolution for being of higher cognitive function, it doesn’t tend to ignore underlying sexual biology.( a non binary doesn’t reject their sex just the expectation of a gender role based on it historically) not to generalise as there are some who wish to interfere with their biology depending on the level of dysphoria they experience. 

biological dimorphisms will inherently emerge as incoherent in some people hence transgender or intersexed but it is rare and that’s not what we are seeing at the moment. 

the two are not the same yet both can be influenced by the idea of the other. Normalising it politically can and has backfired by stigmatising those that don’t agree or that have made a mistake and are ignored because admitting it looks bad to the community even thought it doesn’t effect them only the ones being harmed by very loose policy. 

I think it shouldn’t be advertised or publicly promoted but rather a private decision where the person is left to their own devices and respected as such and allowed to get on with their lives ( I believe the problem arises in those who want to shout it about, demanding attention and rubbing it in peoples faces)
 

medical intervention shouldn’t be given to young people unless they meet the original diagnostic criteria of persistent historical gender identity that continues on into their teens. This original treatment model worked but the affirmation model more recently introduced which was meant to be the loosening of criteria for genuine cases ( de pathologising and reducing distress over the treatment waiting times) has dropped the filters that would have screened out people with mental health issues and those confused by cultural conformity. The clinics are reintroducing the old model but the advocates and community see it as phobic when it actually doesn’t affect them, it simply filters out those who should not be there.

 

other cultures /tribes have had severe interventions normalised, like bodily mutation, decoration, etc. this is nothing new.

the phase may come and go but I do think the public persona of it is just further indentification and justification to conform to a trend with a degree of attention seeking to be seen as being in a culturally ‘right’ and progressive way of thinking.

[Leo Gura]

@Extreme Z7 But the problem is that young people are the ones who most need to experiment with gender roles because they haven't found a solid identity yet. Once you're a mature, developed adult your gender is a solved problem.

It's like saying that sex is best left for mature adults. But sex isn't something you can hide from teens no matter how much you try.

Edited April 21 by Leo Gura

[Extreme Z7]

@Leo Gura Okay, but how young though? Like I can understand a pre-teen or teenager questioning their gender roles. But maybe anything younger than that might be problematic.

[Yimpa]

Man, I’d love to be able to go back in time and explore my gender identity instead of being indoctrinated with conservative religious ideology. 

Why is it okay to brainwash kids with religion? 

I acted gay in kindergarten, and my religious teacher punished me for it.

Anyway, the school ironically shut down a few years after I graduated, so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited April 21 by Yimpa

[Bobby_2021]

I wouldn't want to be brainwashed by gender ideology or any ideology for that matter, especially when I am that young.

Academia has become a cease pool of bullshit ideologies each fighting to indoctrinate their new base. I don't even know if I would send my kids to academia. 

The problem with "exploring yourself" is that you don't have enough experience or action to know yourself when you are that young. You need more data, so it's a good idea to wait till you are older to make such decisions.

You need to put yourself out there and see how you work with different situations to truly find yourself. You cannot "find yourself" while being locked in a room. You need more data about yourself first.

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You cannot "find yourself" while being locked in a room.

Lock yourself in a room and take psychedelics 

[Bobby_2021]

37 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Lock yourself in a room and take psychedelics 

That's one indoctrination that I approve of.

[Raze]

6 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Gender is a social construct, but that doesn't mean we should allow everyone to just play around with whatever constructs they like unless they know how to be careful about it.
 

If gender is a social construct, why do other sexually dimorphic species have gendered behavior despite not having social constructions?

[Extreme Z7]

10 minutes ago, Raze said:

If gender is a social construct, why do other sexually dimorphic species have gendered behavior despite not having social constructions?

How do you determine what counts as male and female animal behavior, other than through more construction?

[Bobby_2021]

Whenever someone says that gender is a social construction, I immediately ask them if sex is a social construction.

Then they answer that sex is biological and therefore it's real, unlike gender.

Therein lies the problem.

It's sneaky manipulation happening here. People who say that gender is a social construction doesn't understand gender or social constructions. 

Gender and sex is one and the same, however you look at it.

Edited April 21 by Bobby_2021

[Extreme Z7]

@Bobby_2021  Your logic doesn't follow and makes no sense.

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

@Bobby_2021  Your logic doesn't follow and makes no sense.

What's so complicated about it?

That gender and sex is the same?

And that they are social constructions?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Okay, but how young though?

However young is needed.

People are so different that there is not going to be a simple number that fits everyone. Really, parents need to help guide their kids through it individually as issues arise. That's why there cannot be a simple law to address this issue.

Edited April 21 by Leo Gura

[Basman]

I wonder how much this is an issue with unrestricted access to the internet. The problem I'd worry about as a parent is that exposure to that kind of information would over complicate kids identity when genuine gender dysphoria is quite rare, especially if kids start perceiving being trans as granting social privilege.

I'm generally for complete restriction of social media for young kids. If a child of mine is genuinely dysphoric, we'll work it out. They shouldn't have to watch Tik-tok to know if they are not okay in some way.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Basman said:

If a child of mine is genuinely dysphoric, we'll work it out. They shouldn't have to watch Tik-tok

But many parents are transphobic and closedminded so kids cannot get help from them.

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Gender and sex is one and the same, however you look at it.

Sex and gender have some overlap, but they're definitely not the same. One is genotypic, the other is more phenotypic.

Most men wouldn't sleep with a transman, though they're biologically female. They've got a pussy, two X chromosomes, the ability to bare children, etc. Problem is... they look like a fucking dude. That's the difference between sex and gender. Someone might biologically be female, but their phenotypic expression might not be aligned with that biological nature. They might look like a dude, making them unattractive to most men, even though they'd make for a valid sexual partner biologically speaking.

Why? Why would a transman be so unattractive, even though they've got female biology? Could it be... that there are other facets to "being a woman", that have nothing to do with their biological sex?

For example: What would your family think if they saw you making out with a transman? Would they think "Look at this biological female that he's making out with.", or would they think "Yep, he's gay."? See how, in that moment, your family might not even consider the biological sex of that person, and might only care for their gender expression? Even if you told them that "She's actually a woman", they might still question why you were making out with a woman that looks like a dude. It wouldn't make that any more heterosexual.

How can you making out with a biological woman ever be gay?

[Yimpa]

Our understanding of gender identity is woefully poor. Case in point, it was only back in 2019 when the WHO stopped labeling transgender as a mental illness

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/05/1039531

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Sex and gender have some overlap, but they're definitely not the same. One is genotypic, the other is more phenotypic

Sex is a classification among organisms the came through evolution as a means to reproduce.

Gender is the sex that pertains to an organisms of interest.

Instead of calling " a male human" we call it "man". Man is the gender that pertains to the males of Homo sapiens. Women is the female of homo sapiens.

Sex  =

{ (male, female) }

Gender =

{ (Man, Woman), (Cow , Bull), (stud, bitch), .......etc so on...... }

Bitch is the female of dog species. Stud is what you call the male of dog species.

Not that complicated.

-------------

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

they look like a fucking dude.

The pertinent question is, are dudes supposed to look a certain way?

If a dude looks like a woman, that is a dude that looks like a woman. Still it's a dude. If a dude wears a skirt, that's a dude wearing a skirt.

I don't understand the logical leap to "transwoman". 

If a dude wearing a skirt is supposed to be a woman, then you are making the flawed assumption that woman are supposed to look a certain way.

Then you have to define a woman.

It all boils down to:

What is a woman?

And by extension:

What is a transwoman?

This is the fundamental question that needs the answer.

Don't give circular answers like "whoever identifies as a woman is a woman".

The question is what is that person identifying as. Since the person is definitely identifying as something. What is the object of identification?

[kray]

There are only two genders: male and female. Instead of brainwashing kids with this shitty identity politics, maybe we should teach them how to find their life purpose. Let who you want to fuck/what you think of yourself be your own battle.