SD Skipping Levels

[Psychonaut]

What are the consequences of skipping levels in the context of spiral dynamics? I feel like a lot of suffering occurs in people because they skipped one level and got "catapulted" to a higher level that they can't handle yet.

For example 

SD-BLUE =Drugs=> SD-GREEN

SD-ORANGE =Even more drugs=> SD-YELLOW

SD-YELLOW ==> SD-CORAL is that possible?

[Davino]

You are confusing states with stages. The whole point of SD is that we are talking about developmental stages not peak states. So looking at it through those lens is very narrow, although it may have some utility.

Some weeks ago, post 5meo trip I had for the first time an exploration into coral SD. In this sense we can say that there are tools that allow some kind of glimpses and there are states that overlap with how a development stage would feel like. However, this kind of approach towards Spiral Dynamics is very nuanced and usually leads to confusion for the untrained eye.

Edited April 9 by Davino

[blackchair]

On 4/9/2024 at 0:02 PM, Davino said:

You are confusing states with stages. The whole point of SD is that we are talking about developmental stages not peak states. So looking at it through those lens is very narrow, although it may have some utility.

Some weeks ago, post 5meo trip I had for the first time an exploration into coral SD. In this sense we can say that there are tools that allow some kind of glimpses and there are states that overlap with how a development stage would feel like. However, this kind of approach towards Spiral Dynamics is very nuanced and usually leads to confusion for the untrained eye.

Can you explain your feeling of coral into more details when you were high.....

[Thought Art]

Yellow requires education, really the problem would be getting caught up in spirituality and philosophy without having your structure of healthy blue, orange, and green. You want to integrate each stage of the spiral.

It's not as simple as just being at a single stage either....

Keep studying the spiral. 

Edited April 13 by Thought Art

[Davino]

22 hours ago, blackchair said:

Can you explain your feeling of coral into more details when you were high.....

It wasn't while high. It was just after a deep 5meo trip, I was in the come down having an amazing shower.

Then it just happened. I can describe coral as extreme maturity. I have no doubt it was coral because I had the exact same feeling as when I was in yellow and had my first glimpse into turquoise. I had to search what was after turquoise and I wasn't even working for it. It felt like such a rippening of my psyche that I was sure it was beyond turquoise.

Coral stage embodies profound wisdom, holistic intelligence, and embracing the inherent nature of existence, alongside a sense of innocent vitality. It's like amalgamating the richness of an 80-year-old's lived experiences with the boundless curiosity and zest for life reminiscent of a child.

It was an extraordinary glimpse and I know that a lot of work has to be done still to be in stage coral , particularly on the side of shadow and survival in the world. Being able to live freely as I am, for myself and in my own terms, will stabilize me in coral. For now, I'm happy where I am and I'm just trusting the unfoldment of the proccess while filling the holes and blindspots of lower levels of psychological development.

Edited April 11 by Davino

[enchanted]

On 08/04/2024 at 1:12 PM, Psychonaut said:

What are the consequences of skipping levels in the context of spiral dynamics? I feel like a lot of suffering occurs in people because they skipped one level and got "catapulted" to a higher level that they can't handle yet.

For example 

SD-BLUE =Drugs=> SD-GREEN

SD-ORANGE =Even more drugs=> SD-YELLOW

SD-YELLOW ==> SD-CORAL is that possible?

It's impossible to skip stages since the model describes each stage as an integration and transcendence of the stages that came before it. 

But you don't need to become a crypto day trader or join a hippie commune to go throught Orange or Green. You just need to have an honest understanding of those levels. 

 

[Davino]

3 hours ago, enchanted said:

It's impossible to skip stages since the model describes each stage as an integration and transcendence of the stages that came before it. 

It's like an infinity piano spiral each musical note recursing to infinity in an intelligent pattern and holistic symphony. In that way the human psyche is impacted by consciousness over one's lifetime.

For more on deep self analysis check the book  Psychosynthesis A Psychology of the Spirit. It will give clarity to anyone interested in deeping the subject beyond the SD model into a higher psychological synthesis, required to properly understand the "I" manifesting as human. 

Quote

In sum, we can say that psychosynthesis

is a system that attempts

to understand both analysis and synthesis,

both wounding and healing,

both personal and transpersonal

growth, and both abyss and peak experiencing.

Again, and above all, this is a perspective that allows an empathic

connection to the unique human person, no matter what the stage of healing

and growth, and draws upon techniques, methods, and practices only from

within this empathic understanding.

 

Edited April 11 by Davino

[blackchair]

9 hours ago, Davino said:

It wasn't while high. It was just after a deep 5meo trip, I was in the come down having an amazing shower.

Then it just happened. I can describe coral as extreme maturity. I have no doubt it was coral because I had the exact same feeling as when I was in yellow and had my first glimpse into turquoise. I had to search what was after turquoise and I wasn't even working for it. It felt like such a rippening of my psyche that I was sure it was beyond turquoise.

Coral stage embodies profound wisdom, holistic intelligence, and embracing the inherent nature of existence, alongside a sense of innocent vitality. It's like amalgamating the richness of an 80-year-old's lived experiences with the boundless curiosity and zest for life reminiscent of a child.

It was an extraordinary glimpse and I know that a lot of work has to be done still to be in stage coral , particularly on the side of shadow and survival in the world. Being able to live freely as I am, for myself and in my own terms, will stabilize me in coral. For now, I'm happy where I am and I'm just trusting the unfoldment of the proccess while filling the holes and blindspots of lower levels of psychological development.

Thank you

[blackchair]

@Davino how old are you if it's not secret.....

[Eph75]

@Psychonaut

You don't skip stages, you are more likely to have more emphasis on the "I" or the "We" side of the spiral. 

It's said that we "hopscotch" the stages, some we have two feet in, some we only stand one foot in before moving on. 

Either way leaves shadows that must be addressed to release yourself to further development. 

You have to integrate each stage to holistically develop. If not, the manifestation of the higher emergant state will be skewed by the overhanging shadow.

This is not an "if" - it "is". 

We all have to address shadow work.

Substances: It's already been mentioned to separate peak experiences/states and stages.

That doesn't mean that temporary peak experiences don't catalyze permanent shifts that contribute to stage advancement.

Challenging - peak - experiences reframe us in some way, more of less. But there are no guarantees.

Edited April 12 by Eph75

[Davino]

 

2 hours ago, blackchair said:

how old are you if it's not secret.....

Pretty young, I'm still finishing my university engineering double degree program. We could say I had a concatenation of nurturing conditions that lead to a rapid personal maturity. 

I always had a lot of potential, amazing parents, high quality food, top education, spontaneous awakenings since childhood, discovering Leo & psychedelics, and many other things. I can say that both inwardly and outwardly I had the right ecosystem to blossom in all domains of life. Although, of course, I face challenges and difficulties as every other finite figment of Reality would. Everything has its lights and shadows, having said this I can say that I've been lucky and I capitalized my good fortune. I have a deep love and appreciation for my life and I want to live an extraordinary existence at the best of my possibilities, in a way that is meaningful and fulfilling for me.

 

[StarStruck]

What goes up must go down. If you go up too quick you go down as fast. That is what we saw with Leo. Sustainable development is key. 

Edited April 13 by StarStruck

[Carl-Richard]

Technically, anything is basically possible, but statistically (and granted the theory is valid), you will follow the steps chronologically (granted a Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic population). I'm actually not sure about the empirical rigor for SD specifically at this point. The most it has going for it is the correlation with almost any other linear stage theory in psychology.

Coral has not been described by the creators of SD in any meaningful detail as far as I know.

[universe]

The consequences are more like a missed lesson. But you don't jump SD stages as quickly as this.

The more common situation is that the society you grow up in is stage Orange and you haven't integrated purple, red and blue thoroughly.

[Psychonaut]

On 09/04/2024 at 0:02 PM, Davino said:

You are confusing states with stages. The whole point of SD is that we are talking about developmental stages not peak states. So looking at it through those lens is very narrow, although it may have some utility.

Some weeks ago, post 5meo trip I had for the first time an exploration into coral SD. In this sense we can say that there are tools that allow some kind of glimpses and there are states that overlap with how a development stage would feel like. However, this kind of approach towards Spiral Dynamics is very nuanced and usually leads to confusion for the untrained eye.

Thanks! That helped me a lot 

[Psychonaut]

On 11/04/2024 at 8:51 PM, Eph75 said:

It's said that we "hopscotch" the stages, some we have two feet in, some we only stand one foot in before moving on.

I like this

 

On 11/04/2024 at 11:01 PM, Davino said:

I can say that both inwardly and outwardly I had the right ecosystem to blossom in all domains of life.

This is key

 

On 11/04/2024 at 8:51 PM, Eph75 said:

Substances: It's already been mentioned to separate peak experiences/states and stages.

And stress, traumatic experiences like death / separation from parents in early in childhood

 

On 13/04/2024 at 9:00 PM, Carl-Richard said:

Coral has not been described by the creators of SD in any meaningful detail as far as I know.

Because nobody has reached it yet ;-)

[Psychonaut]

On 11/04/2024 at 3:52 PM, Davino said:

Psychosynthesis A Psychology of the Spirit

Thanks! I'll check it out, love the animation 

[ryoko]

Skipping "stages" is entirely possible, but not through drugs, rather it's through intense adversity. Infact the whole spiral dynamics is more of a map. In the territory, you can do a lot more than just follow the map. And the territory is nothing like the map. You can heavily alter the territory if you want. Map is pseudo. The territory is different for each and every person. The spiral dynamics is effective only on people who were subject to the societal conditionings of modern society and grew up in an "average" environment. If the person grew up on another planet with another species, spiral dynamics will not be too relevant on him. 

Also, when you're born yellow, it doesn't mean you've missed the previous stages. It just means that's where your territory begins. And in our alien planet, if you're always pushed to go coral because they "are" coral. You might just evolve. It's based on how much relevant those stages are to you.

On earth, our "value compass 🧭" is constantly influenced by the Orange or whatever the average stage is. This is headache for those who are above that stage. 

Also remember, stage yellow have the necessary Orange in it, and the wisdom to decide whether to keep it or not. It's integrated. There's nothing like you missed the lessons. Either you are yellow or you're not. And it's not possible to say "such and such" is the end goal for a person. These stages are ultimately irrelevant. 

Reminds me of the aghoris, and the way they live. One could say their development is lopsided. But what right does anyone have to say that. They don't want the same things as the creators of Spiral Dynamics. Now the map has become the obstacle. The spiral dynamics is by no means a true map for one's choices.

It's more of a map for the average population, who values the same things as the creators of Spiral Dynamics.

Edited April 16 by ryoko

[Ramanujan]

@blackchair are u really in turqoise

[Eph75]

4 hours ago, ryoko said:

Also, when you're born yellow, it doesn't mean you've missed the previous stages.

This is not it.

You are not born into Yellow, you progress more effectively though the stages as part of early development, being pulled into the center of gravity for where the society and local influence is, by being subjected to more efficient means of development.  

And, you will get shadows that need dealing with, inevitably so, if you are to mature to the point that you start, your transition into Yellow.