Game equivalent for women. How to make a guy stay?

[Nemra]

@Princess Arabia male

[Lila9]

41 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is why I'm not very fond of men who live in the gym, have a ton of muscles, are too handsome (I mean like the model-type looking ones), wear too much nice fancy clothes and walk around like "hey, I'm attractive come and chase me". Ever seen the American Psycho movie, he's like a perfect example. Lol. 

Nothing wrong with trying to maintain your health, if you're already born handsome and wearing nice clothes, but I have a keen eye to detect the ones who are doing these things and expect the woman to chase after them because they're so attractive and feminine that it's gets to be a turn off.

Me too, these men are usually treat their muscles like some fragile jewelry and I doubt if they ever use them in real life to do practical things... Seems that they afraid to even put them at risk of a minor scratching.

In general men who put too much effort on their appearance and expect women to chase them always were repulsive to me, now when I'm familiar with the male-female energy concepts I can understand why.

 

49 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Give me that rugged construction worker type who ain't afraid to get his hands dirty and develop those muscles naturally and wears clothes that are not screaming I'm trying to impress you while still looking decent with a natural masculine body odor that I can rub my soft-luscious lips all over without that toxic overly, bearing toxic cologne smell that just stays in my hair all week. A nice very expensive cologne is probably fine but no drakkars please.

Same, lol. This is amazing how so many women have preference for this type of of men.

It's beautiful when men 'earn' their muscles by working with their hands, by building or doing something valuable.

[Raze]

I don’t buy the narrative that it’s the “masculine” role to attract and women naturally want to be “feminine” and select.

For one in my experience and the experience of just about every guy I know, the more you chase and try to win over a woman the less she likes you. On the other hand every girl I know seems to demonstrate the guy they went the most crazy for, was one that they chased, not the other way around.

Scientific studies have also found women tend to be more interested in guys whose feelings for them are unclear / they see other women are interested in / who aren’t nice at first meet. Indicating women actually desire the chase and competition.

If you look at the animal kingdom, our two closest living relatives and chimps and bonobos, but as far as I know they don’t necessarily have a mating process of males pursue and females select or reject. 

Women may prefer the role of being the selector, but then again so do men, I doubt the average guy would say he’d rather go through the stress of trying to pursue someone (risking awkwardness, embarrassment, rejection, or even reputation damage) over an alternative of women hitting on him and deciding that way, maybe if he felt too bad rejecting someone else. 

Edited April 3 by Raze

[Princess Arabia]

22 minutes ago, Consept said:

Having said that women can also be overly reliant on their emotions and feelings to make sense of the world, which can then affect the relationship negatively if they're not able to speak the 'logical language' of men. 

So essentially I'm saying there has to be a balance where both sexes embrace they're opposite polarity within themselves. In that way it can be much easier to understand and communicate with the other side. 

You're missing the point as to why there's attraction in the first place. Yes a man needs to tap into his feminine and the woman into her masculine but not in the dating phase and maybe even in the absence of the opposite sex, as in when the man isn't around she steps up to do certain things etc, it's not textbook and depends. 

The balance is in the relationship already, that's why there's a man/woman relationship in the first place. That's the balance right there. Women don't have to learn to SPEAK the logical language of men, she needs to embrace her feminine when around men and tap into her masculine when he's absent. 

Edited April 3 by Princess Arabia

[Consept]

48 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The balance is in the relationship already, that's why there's a man/woman relationship in the first place. That's the balance right there. Women don't have to learn to SPEAK the logical language of men, she needs to embrace her feminine when around men and tap into her masculine when he's absent. 

I disagree, i think understanding comes from learning the language of the other person. Keep in mind im not saying that a woman should be masculine or a man feminine, im saying that they should be aware of both polarities within themselves and also that they should understand the others perspective. Its like if I dont understand why my woman acts in an emotional way when shes feeling overwhelmed, i might demonise her behaviour instead of understanding it. Conversely if my woman doesnt understand my tendency to make a logical choice when she thinks its an emotional one, then we're doomed. 

Also there are different levels of masculine and feminine in different people, its important to be able to gauge this on both sides to work out a good fit. Its often not as simple as saying well im a man and thats masculine and youre a woman so thats feminine. Some women need an overly masculine dude, some women not so much, its very subjective. 

[Consept]

59 minutes ago, Raze said:

I don’t buy the narrative that it’s the “masculine” role to attract and women naturally want to be “feminine” and select.

For one in my experience and the experience of just about every guy I know, the more you chase and try to win over a woman the less she likes you. On the other hand every girl I know seems to demonstrate the guy they went the most crazy for, was one that they chased, not the other way around.

Scientific studies have also found women tend to be more interested in guys whose feelings for them are unclear / they see other women are interested in / who aren’t nice at first meet. Indicating women actually desire the chase and competition.

Its usually a bit of a dance in the initial stage, but in my experience it goes something like -

• if a woman finds a guy attractive she will give some sort of signal, this can be extremely subtle and a lot of guys miss it, it could be just a look for a second too long. 
• If the man picks up on the signal, in theory, he would go up and talk to her which would show confidence 
• As long as he doesnt mess it up and comes across, cool, non-needy, interesting etc they would agree to go on a date and then just work out if they like each other and where it goes from there 

Obviously theres more to it but in reality it is the girl giving off signs at first, its not hardcore chasing on either side. I agree, women do like a bit of intrigue and mystery initially, its kinda like they want to uncover who you are gradually, they dont want to read the whole book in one go. 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

If you look at the animal kingdom, our two closest living relatives and chimps and bonobos, but as far as I know they don’t necessarily have a mating process of males pursue and females select or reject. 

I know with gorillas, the alpha male is 'chased' by females, i think its similar with chimps. Beta chimps do chase though and they have to be sneaky to get some, like taking the female to a location that away from any alphas. Bonobos are more egalitarian so i think they just all bang each other, including females on females, its used to reduce tension during conflicts amongst other things. But in general with apes females obviously have a preference for Alphas and would reject an ape they thought didnt have good genes for whatever reason. 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Women may prefer the role of being the selector, but then again so do men, I doubt the average guy would say he’d rather go through the stress of trying to pursue someone (risking awkwardness, embarrassment, rejection, or even reputation damage) over an alternative of women hitting on him and deciding that way, maybe if he felt too bad rejecting someone else. 

How it plays out though which is similar to apes, is you just be at the top of your game, look for signals and make your move. Women ultimately are the selectors, that doesnt mean we have to chase in a way thats off putting.   

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

I don’t buy the narrative that it’s the “masculine” role to attract and women naturally want to be “feminine” and select.

For one in my experience and the experience of just about every guy I know, the more you chase and try to win over a woman the less she likes you. On the other hand every girl I know seems to demonstrate the guy they went the most crazy for, was one that they chased, not the other way around.

Scientific studies have also found women tend to be more interested in guys whose feelings for them are unclear / they see other women are interested in / who aren’t nice at first meet. Indicating women actually desire the chase and competition.

If you look at the animal kingdom, our two closest living relatives and chimps and bonobos, but as far as I know they don’t necessarily have a mating process of males pursue and females select or reject. 

Women may prefer the role of being the selector, but then again so do men, I doubt the average guy would say he’d rather go through the stress of trying to pursue someone (risking awkwardness, embarrassment, rejection, or even reputation damage) over an alternative of women hitting on him and deciding that way, maybe if he felt too bad rejecting someone else. 

It's not about wanting to select vs attract between women and men respectively.

If anything, women generally have more of a tendency to want to pursue a particular man if she's interested in him because women are more prone to specific attractions... and men generally have more of a tendency to be detached and want an easy and convenient female companion if it's available to him and to be more interested in "getting good" with women in general. And men generally want to keep their options open.

So... naturally women tend to skew more towards the Masculine/lover role in relation to a man she likes. And men tend to be a bit more detached, which puts him in more of the Feminine beloved mode when a woman really likes him and the depth of those feelings aren't mutual.

But this female pursuer/ male selector dynamic doesn't lead to a solid stable relationship.... and isn't a good strategy to go with for women who want a longterm partner.

But TONS of women end up in this dynamic because she tries to pursue a guy who isn't interested. And it's very dysregulating and exciting... and every scrap of attention feels like heaven. And it keeps her in this intermittent reinforcement dynamic where she tries to win his affection by cooking, cleaning, giving him sex, looking good, being the chill girl, etc. But it doesn't work. 

And it isn't good for feeling settled and building a home and building a stable environment for children.

Show me an exciting relationship where the woman is really into the guy and isn't sure how the guy feels about her, and you're showing me a bad relationship for child rearing.

Show me a boring relationship with stability and certainty where the guy is super invested in the woman and she isn't feeling uncertain about his feelings, and you're showing me a good relationship for child rearing. It's not exciting... but it is functional.

So the pursuer vs selector dynamic between men and women respectively is one that is a best practice for creating stable relationships that make a good environment for child rearing.

[Raze]

54 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Show me an exciting relationship where the woman is really into the guy and isn't sure how the guy feels about her, and you're showing me a bad relationship for child rearing.

Show me a boring relationship with stability and certainty where the guy is super invested in the woman and she isn't feeling uncertain about his feelings, and you're showing me a good relationship for child rearing. It's not exciting... but it is functional.

So the pursuer vs selector dynamic between men and women respectively is one that is a best practice for creating stable relationships that make a good environment for child rearing.

Yes that makes sense, but I’m not sure what the solution is then, because purposefully killing excitement can put a relationship at risk itself, or stop you from even starting one.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Yes that makes sense, but I’m not sure what the solution is then, because purposefully killing excitement can put a relationship at risk itself, or stop you from even starting one.

You don’t have to purposefully kill the excitement. Things will just naturally get more settled if the relationship is progressing.

And this more exciting feelings are replaced by more oxytocin/bonding/attachment feelings of wellbeing 

[Lucasxp64]

On 03/04/2024 at 0:41 PM, Emerald said:

[...] he fancied himself as philosophical and deep in the way he viewed his sexual philosophy. [...]

It seems to be like economical theory.

Economic theorists are hooked on painting the "idealized actor", but DOING business is different.

Edited April 4 by Lucasxp64
Make it briefer and keep the same point.

[Lucasxp64]

I agree with everyone here on the thread. Everyone is speaking some part of the truth. If anyone listens to Leo Gura long enough, it's obvious.

I agree that people for a healthy long-term deep relationship is more actualized as a person in general, I respect it on women. I appreciate her as a person to keep close by, and sex feels like connecting with her as a person that she is, not merely just a visceral connection to her looks.

My personal notes as a man wanting to improve his game, most of it are notes from Owen Cook's course, but I thought about breaking down each element into different types of love I need to bring in.

BE IN LITERAL ABUNDANCE: It will avoid you to be screwed over. Because hot young beautiful woman are in abundance. They will destroy with you if you are highly invested and not in abundance, that's how you protect yourself. NO WOMAN IS AN EXECEPTION. SHE HAS TO KNOW YOU ARE 100% NOT KIDDING  that you have ABUNDANCE, and that the moment she tries to screw you, YOU CAN LITERALLY FEEL 100% BODY, SOUL AND MIND moving to another girl just from where she came from.

There are different types of love:

# EROS: Physical beauty and sexuality.

**Keep a fun light small talk conversation going so it distracts her logical mind, so it gives space for the emotional/sexual communication to happen. So that the important sexual sub-communication can happen**

# LUDUS: Playful kind of love

- **Self-qualification is beta male strategy. That's why provider strategy is unattractive to woman.**
- **Flirtation. ATTRACT, DON'T SEDUCE.**
- Disengage the logical mind. Free Associate, talk just for the sake of having fun  in the moment. Speak with authority and high emotional energy even if you are talking non-sensical crap.
- Ludus stimulation is just like sexual stimulation, creating tension is crucial to increase arousal levels of LUDUS. It's not inauthentic to force it a bit.
- Playful, flirting validation, seeking, verbal playfulness
- NEED FOR VALIDATION: "I'm a cool playful and amusing guy, and you want my validation", not so much a "Hunk of a man that you want to ravish and only a naked picture of my body would be enough for your selection of me".
- Entertainment and excitement
- Game of seduction, Gleefulness, Playful, Amusing, Teasing, Fun, non-commitment, non-monogamous.

# STORGE

- COMFORT & SAFETY

- [[Assume Familiarity]]
- [[Look At What A 'HUG' Did To This Woman In The Middle Of A Walmart!]]
- Non-threatening, Familiar love, peace and physical safety.
- Peaceful and slow, chill

# PRAGMA

    - "I cheated on you because you could have never pulled me out from a club and fucked me, but you used your stability to manipulate me."
    - You want to do it through LUDUS & EROS because then she can never say you are tricking her with money, and she will know as A 100% SOLID FACT, you can pull women whenever the hell you want, just the same way you know she can do it. So it balances it out.
- Practical and traditional, resources, money, gifts
- Is a style of love that emphasizes the practical aspects of love. The pragmatic lover considers compatibility and the sensibility of their choice of partners. This lover will be concerned with goals in life, status, family reputation, attitudes about parenting, career issues and other practical concerns.

# MANIA
Mania is a style of love characterized by volatility, insecurity, and possessiveness. This lover gets highly upset during arguments or breakups, may have trouble sleeping when in love, and feels emotions very intensely.

# AGAPE
- Universal Love. Buddhist loving-kindness to all beings.

[Bobby_2021]

On 4/3/2024 at 10:59 PM, Princess Arabia said:

Ever seen the American Psycho movie, he's like a perfect example. Lol.

Patrick Bateman is literally me fr fr.

On 4/4/2024 at 0:08 AM, Raze said:

Women may prefer the role of being the selector, but then again so do men, I doubt the average guy would say he’d rather go through the stress of trying to pursue someone (risking awkwardness, embarrassment, rejection, or even reputation damage) over an alternative of women hitting on him and deciding that way, maybe if he felt too bad rejecting someone else

Men do select/reject in the way he chooses to approach women. He is selecting the kind of women he wants to pursue. So men are doing the active selection and women can do only passive selection. It's still fundamentally select/reject.

Men can select/reject on the basis of looks. 

I am a little weirded out when women are interested in me. I just don't know how to operate when women are in control. Perhaps I should let go more often. Although it doesn't happen too often. So it isn't much of a concern. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I am a little weirded out when women are interested in me

Leo once said to me, he doesn't trust women who are attracted to him. Here you are saying this. There it goes when tons and tons of men will say she approached me, but she wasn't my type, never his type; and the other tons and tons and tons that chase after women who keep running. They even chase after women who live in different countries, different cities they even move and relocate so they can chase, they ignore the ones that like them then they complain about the ones that don't. They call women easy who give it up easily and complain that when she plays hard to get. Makes no sense along with the rest of life. So it blends in perfectly. I might start a thread about this, just for the hell of it and to hear all the rebuttals and reasonings.

 

Edited April 6 by Princess Arabia

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Leo once said to me, he doesn't trust women who are attracted to him. Here you are saying this. There it goes when tons and tons of men will say she approached me, but she wasn't my type, never his type; and the other tons and tons and tons that chase after women who keep running. They even chase after women who live in different countries, different cities they even move and relocate so they can chase, they ignore the ones that like them then they complain about the ones that don't. They call women easy who give it up easily and complain that when she plays hard to get. Makes no sense along with the rest of life. So it blends in perfectly. I might start a thread about this, just for the hell of it and to hear all the rebuttals and reasonings.

All this happened because women are less willing to make approaches.

Women in general not making approaches is ruining the chances of even women who are bold enough to make approaches since men would instantly think that something's off.

You guys are huge proponents of getting men to act more feminine, cry etc. Now it's your turn. Act more masculine. Do more approaches. 

I can guarantee you that you will have way more chances to get into a relationship far more than men. Still you don't do it. 

Also I can guarantee that men get high from chasing. It's in our nature to go hunting and come back with the prey. 

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Also I can guarantee that men get high from chasing. It's in our nature to go hunting and come back with the prey.

Highs breeds lows. No one wants you to get high so you get bored easily and go chase the next high. You're making my point even more. Men chasing women shouldn't be a high but a natural way to be, how nature intended. There's a reason for it and you're trying to go against it by your logical reasonings and understanding it from your logical mind. 

You're speaking from both sides if your ass cheeks. 

Edited April 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I can guarantee you that you will have way more chances to get into a relationship far more than men. Still you don't do it.

This isn't a problem because it really doesn't matter in the big picture, but you have to stop thinking about these things logically to even start to come close in understanding the nature of how these things really work in the "real" world. This sentence is a math equation. You yourself said you're a bit weirded out when women are interested in you, but you're here making comments saying women should do more approaching.

What that sneaky little mind of yours is doing is thinking its special and its the only one that's disinterested in women who shows interest but the rest of men aren't the same way, I'm special. When 95% of men are like this. Women approaching men is a bad idea. (on a general scale).

Edited April 6 by Princess Arabia

[Bobby_2021]

11 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Highs breeds lows. No one wants you to get high so you get bored easily and go chase the next high. You're making my point even more. Men chasing women shouldn't be a high but a natural way to be, how nature intended. There's a reason for it and you're trying to go against it by your logical reasonings and understanding it from your logical mind. 

What you even saying? If we didn't chase like we do now, we would gone extinct long ago already.

Chasing is done exactly like Nature intended. And there is no logic involved in chasing. We are chasing only following the emotional instincts to get laid. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Bobby_2021 said:

If we didn't chase like we do now, we would gone extinct long ago already

If's aren't Realities. I can see there's no point here if were going down the if's route. 

[Bobby_2021]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You yourself said you're a bit weirded out when women are interested in you, but you're here making comments saying women should do more approaching.

And you think there is a logical fallacy in these statements?

Cute. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Bobby_2021 said:

And you think there is a logical fallacy in these statements?

Cute. 

Yes, it's logically illogical.