Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Mormegil]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And you can tell who is progressive and who's conservative based on that.

Someone who is on the far left would project the Golden Age into  the future and imagine a future utopia that has not yet existed. You can see this in far left ideologies that are all about the idea of the ideal social where workers own the means of production and the problems of that past are gotten rid of.

Someone who is in the center-right might view the current era as the Golden Era and have the thought that we already reached the Golden Era... and that not we need to preserve that by fighting against progress.

And someone who's in the far-right will project the Golden Era into the mythologized and idealized past... which deals with in-group purity (ethnic, national, and racial), traditional gender roles, ect. 

This is a really good insight, thank you for sharing.

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

The dispute was not about whether he was right-wing but whether he was conservative.

Well, that's a spectral thing and largely depends on the semantics used to define these terms.

If we look at things from a Left vs Right semantic perspective... we could call Hilter right wing

If we look at things from a Liberal vs Conservative semantic perspective... we could call Hilter conservative.

But my argument along these lines is that Conservatism and Fascism are spectral with one another because Conservatism tends to have mildly to moderately fascistic elements (though the radicalization of the recent decade makes the average Conservative far more comfortable and familiar with Fascist talking points)... like there will be a general dislike a immigrants coming in, a desire to maintain in-group purity and traditions, and more traditional gender norms.

And with Fascism, it's about actively cleansing society of outsiders and restructuring it to fit more traditional norms. 

So... the Conservative and the Fascist tends to have the same groups on their shit-lists.... minority ethnic, racial, national, and religious groups, the LGBT community, anything that deviates from traditional gender norms that upsets patriarchal order.

The difference is by matter of degree and action. 

And to categorize the Conservative and the Fascist as fundamentally different and not existing on a spectrum with one another, just feels like another way to muddy the waters so that people don't notice the Conservative Overton Window shifting further to the right. 

Actual White Nationalists often do this to try to distance their movement from the likes of Hilter and the Nazis because the average normie doesn't like Hitler and the Nazis. 

So, redefining Far Right as "not Conservative" feel like what White Nationalist try to do to make themselves more palatable... or some normie picked up that talking point and is spreading it without realizing they're being tricked into muddying the waters.

 

[Nilsi]

17 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Great speech: very lucid, timely, and passionate - it's not hard to see why Hitler was able to claim such ridiculous amounts of power, without any initial capitalist maneuvering.

The bigotry and backwardness of his views are quite obvious, though, from as detached a standpoint as listening to some YouTube audio 100+ years later.

His analysis of the current state of the world in his time was quite astute up to the point where he portrays Germany as the victim of some grand conspiracy and thus justifies a total "emancipatory" war. The reality is that Germany's demise was the result of a complex, decentralized historical process and not the plot of some anti-German Jewish deep state.

To add some spice to the discussion: I would place Hitler within the SD Green stage.

The way he deconstructs all the prevalent grand narratives of his time and blurs the lines between description and normativity in the aforementioned speech is classic postmodernist rhetoric and foreshadows the more rigorous academic formulations of this intellectual sensibility.

This, of course, depends on how one interprets the subject of Spiral Dynamics, which I claim is concerned with the form/structure of one's worldview rather than the content (a point also quite explicitly stated by the authors of that work).

[Leo Gura]

 

16 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

To add some spice to the discussion: I would place Hitler within the SD Green stage.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

   This is a literal, figurative and metaphorical treasure trove mine of paranormal events involving creatures, ghosts and UFOs and even groups of psychics, around the time of the fall of the USSR:

   It's just amazing and mind boggling to think something like this occurred, just another version of the skin walker ranch in Utah. Very high strangeness.

[mmKay]

@Nilsi

How Hitler's Volkswagen Became A Symbol Of Free Love

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, Emerald said:

This is where the archetypal "Golden Age" myth comes into play.

And you can tell who is progressive and who's conservative based on that.

Someone who is on the far left would project the Golden Age into  the future and imagine a future utopia that has not yet existed. You can see this in far left ideologies that are all about the idea of the ideal social where workers own the means of production and the problems of that past are gotten rid of.

This is a great point.

[Nilsi]

11 minutes ago, mmKay said:

@Nilsi

 

This is precisely what I said I didn’t mean (i.e. content). 

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

This is precisely what I said I didn’t mean (i.e. content). 

Btw, hippies are slaves to their odd jobs or their PARENTS' money.

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's what extreme nationalists do.

Why do conservatives in America wanna deport the browns?

Hitler considered Jews to be liberals, Marxists, Communists, and globalists. Jews were the source of the liberalism he opposed, both in ideology but also in physical form. The Jews were the embodiment of everything that was corrupting the purity of German tradition, blood, and soil.

American conservatives believe that hispanics and gays are corrupting the purity of white America.

I got you now...yeah I have seen that mindset with conservatives but Hitler took it to a level beyond conservatives...he was beyond that so It's not apples to apples.   Do you think Trump supporters would sanctify the killing of six million Jews.  No..they don't even look to those who are already citizens they look to those who haven't yet come into the country.   And there is racism on both liberal and conservative sides - liberals just hide it well.  What you are talking about is racism and this is not limited to the conservative party.

Edited March 28 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you think Trump supporters would sanctify the killing of six million Jews

Culture has permanently developed a lot since the 1930's, so that level of oppression and bigotry is no longer possible because people are no longer that racist or hateful.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Culture has permanently developed a lot since the 1930's, so that level of oppression and bigotry is no longer possible because people are no longer that racist or hateful.

Well..until another Hitler comes along..and yeah..Trump isn't that bad but he's close...so I get it.  Most likely a new Hitler won't emerge as a liberal - but again , that's only because they hide it well.  Prejudice runs very deep.  You should put a video out on that.

[OBEler]

Please don't compare Trump with Hitler.l too much. Trump is a joke compared to Hitler as to many other politicians out there.

 

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Please don't compare Trump with Hitler. Trump is a joke compared to Hitler.

 

If you put Trump in 1939 don't be so sure.  You would be surprised what a human is capable of.   But he can grow this economy like nobody's business so I'll probably vote for him..

Edited March 28 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

until another Hitler comes along

It's not about Hitler. Hitler was a product of his culture. And the culture that created him no longer exists in the developed West.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not about Hitler. Hitler was a product of his culture. And the culture that created him no longer exists in the developed West.

That's like saying we have advanced beyond the possibility that we will someday destroy ourselves.   If you think that you are a fool.  You underestimate the possibility of chaos.

The culture still exists.   You said it yourself by saying he is conservative.   It will never fully dissipate. 

Edited March 28 by Inliytened1

[Danioover9000]

   Also is nobody going to bring up how Jordan Peterson is in deep denial of climate change crisis issues??? So not only is he intentionally distorting, and misinforming others of what Nazism really is, he also is a conspiracy theorist and denies climate change????🤣🤣🤣

   Am watching that Jordan Peterson and Destiny talk again.

Edited March 28 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

   OMG Jordan is anti vaxxer too???😭😭😭

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's like saying we have advanced beyond the possibility that we will someday destroy ourselves.

What I said is nothing like denying our ability to destroy ourselves.

You made a weird leap there.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

What I said is nothing like denying our ability to destroy ourselves.

You made a weird leap there.

It's not such a leap.  It's dropping bombs on entire countries.   Worse than Hitler.