Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course, only the logic rules. 

There are three versions: one says that Israel is using starvation as a weapon of genocidal war; another that Israel provides enough food but Hamas distributes it unfairly; and the third, that Israel limits the intake of food to keep the Palestinians anxious, or aware of the fact that Israel could, if it wanted, starve them.

Logically, I would say that reality is somewhere in between the second and third. There is no starvation, there is scarcity. It is a war, and Israel uses every psychological tactic it can to achieve its ends. Israel cannot starve Gazans Genghis Khan-style because the world is watching.

For example, this video shows the hard situation that have to face an aged Palestinian man to live day by day. It's extremely challenging living in the situation, but same time, the video shows a healthy man. Then, the logic tells that the starvation is not the case. You can't, in any case, believe any report of any part, because both sides lies completely. The only possibility to make a map is observation and detached logic 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQRckK5lFab/?igsh=Z252dzVkM2R3ajdh

The speaker outlines three “versions” — Israel using starvation as a weapon, Hamas mismanaging aid, and Israel restricting supplies for psychological pressure — then claims the truth lies “between” the second and third. This assumes all narratives are equally valid and that truth lies in the middle, a false balance fallacy. Humanitarian crises aren’t understood by averaging claims but through verifiable evidence — UN data, aid agencies, and independent monitors 

There is significant credible evidence that the situation in the Gaza Strip is not simply one of scarcity but of **starvation that has been intensified – and in some respects caused – by actions of the State of Israel (Israel). For example:

The World Health Organization (WHO) described Gaza as “suffering man-made mass starvation” caused by the Israeli-led blockade that prevents sufficient food, water and medicine from entering. The Guardian+2Foreign Affairs+2

Multiple senior Israeli officials have publicly declared that blocking humanitarian aid is a deliberate policy pressure tool. For instance, Israel Katz, then-Defence Minister, said “no humanitarian aid will enter Gaza… blocking this aid is one of the main pressure levers preventing Hamas from using it as a tool with the population.” United Nations+1

Aid-agencies and human rights groups report that thousands of trucks worth of food aid remain stuck, access is heavily limited, and key crossings have been shut or bottlenecked. For example, Oxfam states Israel is “deliberately hindering” aid and that “virtually all households across Gaza are starving” in parts of the enclave. Al Jazeera+1

On a ground-level basis, interviews and reports show dramatic change in diet among Palestinians in Gaza: one family interviewed had a Friday meal of four cans of peas and carrots, shared among 11 people including six children, reflecting a collapse of meaningful nutrition. The food-security monitoring body IPC (Integrated Food Security Phase Classification) already flagged large parts of Gaza at Phase 5 (catastrophe/famine) level.

Citing a single video of “a healthy man” as proof against starvation is also flawed. Individual cases can’t represent population-wide conditions, especially in conflict zones where suffering is uneven and videos are selectively shared. This anecdotal fallacy substitutes personal observation for data. The claim that “both sides lie completely” further weakens credibility, reflecting cynicism, not critical thinking. True critical inquiry weighs sources for reliability and transparency; rejecting all information leaves no factual basis, making “detached logic” detached from reality.

Their view rests on flawed logic, selective observation, and misunderstanding of humanitarian evidence. In short, the speaker projects the appearance of critical thinking without its substance.

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that their objective is more de dissapearance of Israel. Look:

 

🕰️ 1. UN Partition Plan (1947)

Proposal: Two states — one Jewish, one Arab — with Jerusalem under international administration.

Accepted by: Jewish leadership.

Rejected by: Palestinian Arab leaders and all surrounding Arab states.

Reason: They refused to recognize any Jewish state on what they considered Arab land.

Result: Immediate invasion by Arab armies after Israel’s declaration of independence (1948).

🕰️ 2. Post-1948 negotiations

Context: After the Arab defeat, Israel offered limited territorial compromises and partial refugee return.

Rejected by: Arab governments and Palestinian representatives, who demanded Israel’s elimination and full refugee return.

🕰️ 3. “Land for Peace” offers (1967)

After Israel’s victory in the Six-Day War, it signaled willingness to return land for peace.

Arab League response (Khartoum Resolution, 1967):

“No peace with Israel, no recognition, no negotiations.”

Result: Total diplomatic rejection.

🕰️ 4. Camp David Summit (2000)

Offer by: Israeli PM Ehud Barak, brokered by U.S. President Bill Clinton.

Terms: Palestinian state in all of Gaza and ~94–96% of the West Bank, with shared control of Jerusalem.

Rejected by: Yasser Arafat.

Reason: Disagreements over Jerusalem’s sovereignty and the right of return for refugees.

🕰️ 5. Taba Negotiations (2001)

Final attempt under the same framework — offered up to 97% of the West Bank and land swaps.

Talks collapsed amid the outbreak of the Second Intifada.

No agreement reached.

🕰️ 6. Olmert Proposal (2008)

Offer by: Israeli PM Ehud Olmert to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

Terms: State in Gaza and almost all of the West Bank, 1:1 land swaps, capital in East Jerusalem.

Outcome: Abbas never formally replied, citing political weakness and distrust.

⚖️ Summary

Since 1947, Palestinian leadership has rejected or failed to act on at least six major peace plans
that could have established a sovereign Palestinian state.
Reasons included religious ideology, national pride, refugee disputes, and deep mistrust —
especially the unwillingness to formally recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish state.

 

The argument is a selective, one-sided narrative that reduces a complex history to a moral dichotomy — “Palestinians want destruction, Israel wants survival.” While the timeline includes factual milestones, it omits crucial context and misrepresents motives on both sides. The 1947 UN Partition Plan was indeed accepted by Jewish leaders and rejected by Arab ones, but the rejection stemmed from seeing the plan as unjust: Arabs made up two-thirds of the population and viewed partition as granting most of the land to a newly arrived minority owning less than 10%. The 1948 war was not a unified campaign of extermination but a regional conflict with complex causes, and Israel also expelled or barred hundreds of thousands of Palestinians — a key source of enduring mistrust.

The portrayal of later peace offers (2000, 2001, 2008) as generous yet irrationally rejected distorts reality. Each contained major flaws: continued Israeli control of borders, airspace, and settlements that fragmented Palestinian territory, and unresolved issues like refugees and East Jerusalem. Even U.S. and Israeli negotiators later admitted these offers were incomplete. The 2008 Olmert plan was never formalized and came as Olmert was leaving office under indictment.

The claim that the “Palestinian objective is the disappearance of Israel” ignores decades of evidence showing repeated Palestinian acceptance of coexistence through a two-state solution. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)officially recognized Israel’s right to exist within the 1967 borders in its 1988 Declaration of Independence, effectively conceding 78% of historic Palestine and limiting its claim to the remaining territories of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. Since then, Palestinian leaders have repeatedly affirmed support for a two-state framework — from the 1993 Oslo Accords, which created mutual recognition between Israel and the PLO, to later initiatives like the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002, which offered Israel full normalization in exchange for withdrawal from occupied territories. Even groups often branded as rejectionist, such as Hamas, have in recent years issued statements supporting a long-term truce or state along 1967 borders if Israel reciprocates. Consistent polling by organizations such as the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research shows that, despite deep frustration and disillusionment, large portions of the Palestinian public continue to support either a two-state arrangement or a single democratic state with equal rights for Jews and Arabs.

By contrast, Israel has repeatedly acted to undermine Palestinian self-determination. It continues to expand settlements in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem — a direct violation of international law — making a contiguous Palestinian state increasingly unviable. Successive Israeli governments have rejected or delayed negotiations over core issues like borders, refugees, and Jerusalem, while entrenching military control and permitting settler violence. Leaders such as Benjamin Netanyahu have explicitly opposed the creation of a Palestinian state, calling it a security threat. Israel has also rejected alternatives such as a single, binational state with equal citizenship, preferring to maintain permanent dominance under occupation. Taken together, these actions and statements show that it is not Palestinians who uniformly seek Israel’s disappearance, but rather that Israeli policy has consistently denied Palestinians any form of genuine sovereignty or equality — whether through two states or one shared democracy.

If someone claims to have “studied all perspectives” yet presents this binary view, it shows surface-level knowledge and confirmation bias — accepting facts that fit a preconceived moral narrative while ignoring others. Though articulate, such reasoning lacks depth and balance. Their view is ideologically filtered, not scholarly, and should not be treated as a reliable or well-informed analysis of the conflict.

Edited October 27, 2025 by Raze

[zazen]

Praying to maintain humanity amongst inhumanity, around everything broken to connect to the unbreakable. In prostration - at the lowest point when the head touches the floor, they speak of the most high.

It’s sexier and cooler when Aubrey Marcus types congregate for their shamanic journeys though. But Muslims incorporating a daily dose of remembrance in their own way. oooo thats evil and scary ooo Halloween soon ya know. Hippie new age aesthetics are obviously the right and only way to be spiritual cos they be higher on that spiral dynamic colour. Picking colours like we power rangers..go go power ranger.

I see Westerners breaking down in the rat race of urban life cos the barista got the coffee wrong, whilst Gazan kids still singing with a smile after all they’ve been through. The biohacking, journaling, freedom drenched life of hedonism annd “liberties” isn’t enough of a cooling balm for the soul it seems. We assign value to Ryan Holiday stoicism but too easily mock “primitive” sources of strength many still rely on due to our own biases.

Edited October 27, 2025 by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, zazen said:

see Westerners breaking down in the rat race of urban life cos the barista got the coffee wrong, whilst Gazan kids still singing with a smile after all they’ve been through. The biohacking, journaling, freedom drenched life of hedonism annd “liberties” isn’t enough of a cooling balm for the soul it seems. We assign value to Ryan Holiday stoicism but too easily mock “primitive” sources of strength many still rely on due to our own biases.

Human beings quickly adapt to circumstances, in a matter of days. The man who was hysterical yesterday because his new car had been scratched is today piloting fighter planes in the Battle of London on a stormy night in the Strait of Gibraltar. Human beings bring out their noblest side in adversity and become selfish crybabies in prosperity. That's why it's healthy to maintain a good dose of uncertainty and struggle in life, so as not to become a piece of shit.

Edited October 28, 2025 by Breakingthewall

[Ima Freeman]

I don't know what kind of week long debate is going on in this thread right know, don't bother to read that much.

But I want to share some thoughts I had recently about the Israel-Palestine conflict.


This whole conflict is the navel of human conflict.

The conflict between East and West.

The conflict between Global North and the Global South.

The conflict between wealthy (post-)Europeans and poor dark skinned people.

 

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, zazen said:

Praying to maintain humanity amongst inhumanity, around everything broken to connect to the unbreakable. In prostration - at the lowest point when the head touches the floor, they speak of the most high.

Where you see spirituality, I see belonging and exclusion. Tribalism. Need to be inside again those who are inside. This is coded very deeply into the human structure, and when empowered, it's an insurmountable force. The problem is that it always needs an external enemy

22 hours ago, zazen said:

see Westerners breaking down in the rat race of urban life cos the barista got the coffee wrong, whilst Gazan kids still singing with a smile after all they’ve been through.

Don't fool yourself: the lack of structure, loneliness, and being surrounded by depressed, narcissistic, and alienated adults are much harder for a child than war. War is fun! A Western child immersed in an energy trap they'll probably never understand suffers much more than a child in a war. 

22 hours ago, zazen said:

The biohacking, journaling, freedom drenched life of hedonism annd “liberties” isn’t enough of a cooling balm for the soul it seems. We assign value to Ryan Holiday stoicism but too easily mock “primitive” sources of strength many still rely on due to our own biases.

We can't remain tribal forever. Being a Sioux was much more authentic and direct than a modern human, but what reality imposes now is being a modern human, which is much more difficult than being a Sioux.

Don't underestimate the harshness of Western life. The loneliness, the old age in nursing homes, the horror of absolute nihilism. No one is tougher than a Westerner; nothing has ever been more difficult than living without the support of religion and tribe.

Respect those people who seem weak, pale, inconsistent to you. They are the germ of a new humanity, one that separates itself from the tribal and enters into the divine, going through a dessert of nihilism, loneliness, suffering. Reality always advances; don't underestimate the intelligence of reality.

Ah, and do you think that Ali prayed at night? He was the greatest, but also quite liar and narcissist 

Edited October 28, 2025 by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

On 28/10/2025 at 6:33 PM, Ima Freeman said:

I don't know what kind of week long debate is going on in this thread right know, don't bother to read that much.

But I want to share some thoughts I had recently about the Israel-Palestine conflict.


This whole conflict is the navel of human conflict.

The conflict between East and West.

The conflict between Global North and the Global South.

The conflict between wealthy (post-)Europeans and poor dark skinned people.

 

New movie out called Palestine 36

 

Edited October 31, 2025 by zazen

[Revolutionary Think]

On 10/23/2025 at 1:31 AM, zazen said:

Where is Hamas supposed to fight from?

Maybe they shouldn't start fights? Maybe they shouldn't rape torture and kill civilians while screaming Allahu Akbar? Maybe when Israel gave them the rest of Gaza in 2007 they should've done something in good faith instead of teaching their children that murder and killing are the only way and use the money and resources into bettering things instead of creating tunnels?

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Revolutionary Think said:

Maybe when Israel gave them the rest of Gaza in 2007 they should've done something in good faith instead of teaching their children that murder and killing are the only way and use the money and resources into bettering things instead of creating tunnels?

Actually israel purposefully blockaded Gaza to keep the economy on the brink of collapse.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40926651

You can’t do anything “good faith” when Israel doesn’t operate in good faith. The PA in the West Bank ceased armed resistance to Israel, and this is what israel was doing before Hamas “started it” according to you 

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank

 

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Raze said:

Actually israel purposefully blockaded Gaza to keep the economy on the brink of collapse.

When entering it 200+ trucks mostly with food and aid every day for 15 years.

Edited November 1, 2025 by Nivsch

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

When entering it 200+ trucks mostly with food and aid every day for 15 years.

That’s because they calculated the calories needed to avoid a full blown starvation crisis. But they banned and limited a variety of civilian items ranging from chocolate, medicines, wheelchair parts, water desalination equipment, etc.