Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Ajay0]

36 minutes ago, Raze said:

I’m not Indian.

Apologies for the same.  India has a long relationship due to traditional ties with arab countries and have supported a two state resolution in the middle east.

Quote

 

The statement claiming that “under Islamic Sharia a rape victim must produce four adult male witnesses to validate her charges, otherwise she is punished for slander or adultery, and that two female witnesses equal one male witness” is largely inaccurate and misleading. It conflates different parts of Islamic law, misrepresents their purpose, and reflects extremist or politicized misinterpretations rather than authentic jurisprudence.

The requirement of four male witnesses originates from Qur’an 24:4, but that rule applies specifically to proving adultery (zina)—not rape. In Islamic jurisprudence, rape (zina bil-jabr) is recognized as a separate crime involving coercion and violence, not consensual sexual relations. Because of that, rape can be proven by a wide range of evidence, such as the victim’s testimony, medical evidence, the perpetrator’s confession, or circumstantial proof. The idea that a rape victim must produce four eyewitnesses is a distortion and not supported by mainstream Islamic law.

The claim that a woman who cannot produce four witnesses would then be punished for adultery or slander is also false. That punishment (80 lashes) is mentioned in the Qur’an as applying to someone who falsely accuses another person of adultery without evidence, not to victims reporting a crime. Unfortunately, some courts under extremely conservative interpretations—such as during the Taliban regime in Afghanistan or in Pakistan before legal reforms in 2006—have misapplied this rule, wrongfully punishing rape victims. However, such cases have been widely condemned by leading Islamic scholars and institutions, including Al-Azhar University and the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, as un-Islamic and contrary to Sharia’s principles of justice.

Finally, the idea that two women equal one man as witnesses comes from Qur’an 2:282, which refers only to financial contracts in a 7th-century context where women were less involved in financial dealings. This was never meant to apply to criminal cases, and most contemporary scholars and Muslim-majority countries accept women’s testimony as fully valid in all legal matters.

 

Well, there is no standardisation for the same, and only in progressive muslim nations are such laws in effect.

You can also check out these websites showcasing how regressive Islamic laws protect the rapist rather than the victim as well as a  global campaign to prevent stoning of women as punishment, 

https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2017/05/mais-haddad-arab-world-laws-protect-the-rapist-not-the-victim/

https://www.cmi.no/publications/6644-global-campaign-to-stop-stoning-of-women

https://www.zawya.com/en/press-release/africa-press-releases/new-research-reveals-legal-systems-across-arab-league-countries-are-failing-rape-survivors-i9ut0ohp

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23381448

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15836746

Edited 13 hours ago by Ajay0

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Apologies for the same.  India has a long relationship due to traditional ties with arab countries and have supported a two state resolution in the middle east.

Traditionally yes, but recently it’s been engaging closer with Israel and has a rise in anti Muslim hate crimes

https://newint.org/arms/2025/partners-power-israel-india-and-arms-trade

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Well, there is no standardisation for the same, and only in progressive muslim nations are such laws in effect.

You can also check out these websites showcasing how regressive Islamic laws protect the rapist rather than the victim as well as a  global campaign to prevent stoning of women as punishment, 

https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2017/05/mais-haddad-arab-world-laws-protect-the-rapist-not-the-victim/

https://www.cmi.no/publications/6644-global-campaign-to-stop-stoning-of-women

https://www.zawya.com/en/press-release/africa-press-releases/new-research-reveals-legal-systems-across-arab-league-countries-are-failing-rape-survivors-i9ut0ohp

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23381448

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15836746

Yes but every one of those sites also publishes reports accusing India of enabling crimes against women as well, so it’s hypocritical to dismiss it as just crime among a large population but then use them to accuse other countries of systemic issues 

https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2023/03/yadav-gaur-hathras-case-institutional-failure/

https://www.cmi.no/publications/6858-gendercide-and-marginalisation-an-initial-review-of-the-knowledge-base

https://www.zawya.com/en/multimedia/galleries/womans-gang-rape-and-death-in-northern-india-sparks-nationwide-protests-bx92z762

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-62830634

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0gzp0wlrno

Edited 10 hours ago by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

The statement claiming that “under Islamic Sharia a rape victim must produce four adult male witnesses to validate her charges, otherwise she is punished for slander or adultery, and that two female witnesses equal one male witness” is largely inaccurate and misleading. It conflates different parts of Islamic law, misrepresents their purpose, and reflects extremist or politicized misinterpretations rather than authentic jurisprudence.

The requirement of four male witnesses originates from Qur’an 24:4, but that rule applies specifically to proving adultery (zina)—not rape. In Islamic jurisprudence, rape (zina bil-jabr) is recognized as a separate crime involving coercion and violence, not consensual sexual relations. Because of that, rape can be proven by a wide range of evidence, such as the victim’s testimony, medical evidence, the perpetrator’s confession, or circumstantial proof. The idea that a rape victim must produce four eyewitnesses is a distortion and not supported by mainstream Islamic law.

The mere fact of considering jurisprudence from 1,400 years ago to judge sexual crimes is complete madness. The only motivation for doing this is that it is a direct mandate from God, therefore it cannot be modified. Superstition to rule the life of millions, without the possibility of evolution. 

Oh, save the adejetives like stupid, mentally retarded, idiot, etc, if you don't agree or you feel your dogma attacked. We already know your way of debating and being right, trying to humiliate the other, insults, and long AI messages to drown out the other's voice. It's a smart strategy, if your listeners are of very low level, and shows the level of your soul.

[Raze]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Oh, save the adejetives like stupid, mentally retarded, idiot, etc, if you don't agree or you feel your dogma attacked. We already know your way of debating and being right, trying to humiliate the other, insults, and long AI messages to drown out the other's voice. It's a smart strategy, if your listeners are of very low level, and shows the level of your soul.

Stop playing the victim. You got a taste of your own medicine. You had plenty of chances for good faith discussion. You chose deflection, ignorance, sarcasm, and lying. You deserve to get treated in kind when you won’t engage properly otherwise. Bringing up being “low level” and “level of the soul” after even the AI pointed out your complete lack of morality and substandard understanding dozens of times is yet another example of this. Only deflection, never actual engagement. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Raze

[Ajay0]

25 minutes ago, Raze said:

Traditionally yes, but recently it’s been engaging closer with Israel 

https://newint.org/arms/2025/partners-power-israel-india-and-arms-trade

The Indian military is the fourth strongest in world rankings, and we are interested in boosting our military, agricultural and industrial technologies and consequently, have developed a good relationship with Israel in the process which have proven expertise in the same. 

India is the only country on earth which has never persecuted its jewish population. Friendly ties have existed also between the indian muslim population and the Indian Jewish population even now due to religious and cultural similarities.

So consequently, we are interested in developing relations between Israel and India, and create a best case scenario of friendship between Israel and Arab countries instead of incessant warfare, bloodshed and conflict between them.

With the ongoing transition from oil to lithium and sodium based batteries, oil as a resource will become obsolete within a decade or two from now, which can result in the oil rich arab nations transitioning from prosperity to poverty. Israeli technology can help the Arabs build agriculture and industrialize the middle east. 

Quote

 

Yes but every one of those sites also publishes reports accusing India of enabling crimes against women as well,

 

India has good updated legal constitution which has decriminalised homosexuality, and provide privileges for transgenders .

Issue in India is lack of the necessary policing forces to implement the law with exactitude as well as the necessary number of courts to bring swift justice. 

A shortage of judges, courtrooms, and administrative staff, along with outdated technology, hinders the efficient functioning of the courts leading to large number of pending cases. 

We have over 2200000 policemen which is larger than the population of some countries, but this is still a million short with respect to ideal force levels.

India is still a developing nation and we are trying to overcome these deficiencies at present. The fast improving economy however has brought incremental improvements in capabilities in the same and hopefully the deficiencies will be covered in a few years time .

Quote

so it’s hypocritical to dismiss it as just crime among a large population but then use them to accuse other countries of systemic issues .

The arab nations have very low populations and cannot be compared to India which has the largest population in the world. 

Also it was not me here who first accused the Islamic nations of such systemic issues. Do keep that in mind.

India has recently banned the triple talaq  and criminalized by the Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Marriage) Act, 2019, though there were major protests against it by islamic fundamentalists.  This however has led to reduction in  Muslim men divorcing their wives over verbal speeches, text messages, Skype, emails and phone calls, and leading to better marital stability among Indian muslim couples.

[Breakingthewall]

39 minutes ago, Raze said:

Stop playing the victim. You got a taste of your own medicine. You had plenty of chances for good faith discussion. You chose deflection, ignorance, sarcasm, and lying. You deserve to get treated in kind when you won’t engage properly otherwise. Bringing up being “low level” and “level of the soul” after even the AI pointed out your complete lack of morality and substandard understanding dozens of times is yet another example of this. Only deflection, never actual engagement. 

Ignorance and sarcasm, in your opinion right? I mean, if you don't like an opinion, you downplay it and humiliate the person who expresses it by insulting them. For example, you don't like it when I say that, in my opinion, Israel isn't using starvation as a weapon of war, so you insult and post long, biased texts about AI insulting.

I understand, this is the Raze forum, and you have to be careful with the opinions you express, or else he'll insult you.

Regarding what I said about the Quran's jurisprudence on sexual crimes, do you think you should insult me for that opinion or post insulting texts about AI? I'm a little anxious. I don't know if you're going to approve of this opinion or not. We'll see the level of insults. I already know your vision: America is Satan, the brics are good, Muslims are victims. It's simple but precise. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ignorance and sarcasm, in your opinion right? I mean, if you don't like an opinion, you downplay it and humiliate the person who expresses it by insulting them. For example, you don't like it when I say that, in my opinion, Israel isn't using starvation as a weapon of war, so you insult and post long, biased texts about AI insulting.

No, I actually gave you perfectly rational arguments with sources, you ignored them, acted like I didn’t give you the right sources, later denied that the sources you requested even matter, and doubled down on what you said from the start, completely failing to coherently address any point made the entire time, the entire time making passive aggressive remarks and sarcasm, then when it gets used against you, you play the victim, as you are doing here. 

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

No, I actually gave you perfectly rational arguments with sources, you ignored them, acted like I didn’t give you the right sources, later denied that the sources you requested even matter, and doubled down on what you said from the start, completely failing to coherently address any point made the entire time, the entire time making passive aggressive remarks and sarcasm, then when it gets used against you, you play the victim, as you are doing here. 

I didn't insult you by sending those links. I said that 5 photos of hungry people against 1000 hours of videos of healthy people aren't valid as proof to me.

And regarding the reports from organizations that talk about arm circumference, etc., I said that in a situation like Gaza, food distribution isn't the same as in peacetime. It's also carried out by Hamas. Therefore, it's to be expected that there will be people who aren't perfectly fed. But that's absolutely different from using starvation as a weapon of war. All the food that comes in goes to Israel, the genocidal enemy. And seeing the people after two years, I see that there's no use of hunger as a weapon.

This statement provokes insults from you and very long insulting AI messages that, for you, validate your perspective (strange). So, since I don't like being insulted, I would like to know what to say so as not to provoke your righteous anger thirsty of justice that makes you insult so much. 

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall We already went over the fact that they don’t need to visibly look unhealthy or starving but can still be under conditions of starvation. Raze also shared images of starved people after many years yet looking “healthy” in your eyes.

I think you take the most extreme case of any definition as the only application of that definition. If you narrow down the definition to its most extreme manifestation then of course you won’t apply it.

If many institutions and global bodies are referring it as such then we should perhaps go by their definition and not create our own. Although I can understand that sometimes we don’t consider these institutions as credible because they can be politicized and used or misused as tools of the powerful.

But surely - if a global institution like the UN etc are calling the situation in Israel as it is then it’s more accurately closer to reality than not - because they have every incentive not to invite the consequences of a global superpower who wants to shield its ally (Israel). In fact the ICC was threatened by the US also. What political power do the Palestinians have to sway these institutions or bodies to define the situation as starvation? This is where we get Zionists calling the UN Hamas - as if they have more institutional power than the US and collective West loool

Edited 8 hours ago by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, zazen said:

Raze also shared images of starved people after many years yet looking “healthy” in your eyes.

So, someone sends you a photo of a healthy woman and says, "This woman was in a Nazi starvation camp, and she looks healthy." You already know that people in Nazi camps were sometimes overweight. I think you should have a healthy dose of skepticism to avoid being manipulated or believing what you want to believe.

Anyway, if I told this to raze, he would insult me and send a long post made by IA plenty of insulting. Is this a way to understand the reality? 

9 minutes ago, zazen said:

We already went over the fact that they don’t need to visibly look unhealthy or starving but can still be under conditions of starvatio

This is your opinion, my opinion is that if Israel is accused of using starvation as a weapon of war, and they show 5 photos of 5 people on the brink of death from starvation, just skin and bones, but then you watch a thousand hours of videos where everyone looks good and seems full of energy, it seems to me that I'm being mocked. I think that you would admit that this opinion could be said in a forum without being insulted hundreds of times, it's not a crazy opinion or anything aggressive like saying that I'm happy of the suffering of Palestinian, I want to know exactly the facts, not feed my dogma.

At first I was totally pro Palestinian, but thinking about the topic and reading the history, now I think that the Palestinian attitude makes impossible any solution, because the Palestinian attitude is this: 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DP4Ww2zEha_/?igsh=MWUwaG9td3BxODdlcQ==

And they see that as heroism when it's cowardice and extreme selfishness. 

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall From AI:

“International criteria exist.
Starvation and famine aren’t opinions; they’re defined by standardized measures, mainly from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC), used by the UN, WHO, and WFP.

Starvation refers to acute food deprivation leading to malnutrition and increased mortality.

Famine (IPC Phase 5) is declared when:

≥20 % of households face extreme food shortage,

≥30 % of children suffer acute malnutrition,

death rate exceeds 2 per 10 000 people per day.

International bodies have applied those terms to Gaza.

The UN and the World Food Programme in early 2024 reported that parts of northern Gaza had famine conditions under IPC Phase 5.

UN Secretary-General António Guterres said, “Everyone in Gaza is hungry,” calling it “a moral outrage.”

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said in March 2024, “Starvation is being used as a weapon of war. Israel is provoking famine.”

HRW and Amnesty both published findings that Israel was using starvation as a method of warfare.

These aren’t activist slogans — they’re official designations and legal assessments.

Your counterpart is actually substituting anecdote for data.
Saying “they don’t look starving” is a subjective visual impression.
Saying “the IPC and UN have classified this as famine conditions” is a fact.
So the inversion is clear: he’s calling your evidence-based statement an “opinion” while his visually-based intuition is the opinion.

The fair-minded conclusion:
If credible international monitoring systems — which rely on nutrition surveys, mortality rates, and caloric intake data — determine famine conditions exist, then the only objective position is to accept that data unless one can produce equally rigorous counter-data.”

 

Not as long as Razes AI lol don’t worry.

It’s not my opinion, yours on the contrary is an opinion. I’m going by facts stated by global institutions according to their own definitions which aren’t only ever applied to the worst manifestation of those definitions.

As it states - there are phases to starvation. You think the only form of starvation is the absolute end phase when someone is a skeleton and dehydrated like the desert. The reason for having phases is to prevent the absolute worst phases from coming - by having lower intensity phases as sounding alarms.

Otherwise how would international law go about stopping “plausible” genocide, ethnic cleansing and starvation - if they only define situations AFTER the fact when it’s too late to do anything about it.

It’s like telling someone who’s anaemic (low iron) that their not malnourished because they still eat food.

Edited 7 hours ago by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, zazen said:

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said in March 2024, “Starvation is being used as a weapon of war. Israel is provoking famine.”

Borrell is completely an activist. He's also completely anti-Russian and advocates for the creation of weapons factories in Europe to supply Ukraine, prolonging the war as long as possible. Maybe due some economic rewards.

Look, it's obvious there's hunger in Gaza, because supplying a city in those conditions is a very difficult challenge. But saying that Israel is using hunger as a weapon could be false. Why? What is Israel seeking with Starvation? First, we must understand what Israel wants to do with Gaza and the Gazans, and then deduce what it's doing with the supplies. In Europe, it's said that what Israel is doing is genocidal and that it wants to eliminate the Gazans. This lacks logic, it's impossible. Israel wants to expulse them? Maybe, but where? Or maybe Israel want to rebuild gaza as Netanyahu said and control it allows the Palestinian to return. We will see, but for now it's just an interrogation 

Israel has destroyed 70% of the buildings in Gaza, and in almost every case, it has issued a warning before each bombing to evacuate. This doesn't mean Israel is good; it means it targets infrastructure, not civilians.

Forget your feelings and observe the conflict without any passion, as if it were Han Chinese versus Ming Chinese anywhere. Try to understand, without passion, what the real solution to what's happening is. Israel and Palestine want to survive. How can they achieve that? What are the points in each of them that make it impossible? Forget justice, nakbas, and histories, only the future. Do you think launching useless rockets and carrying out October 7 are something that points to a better future for the children of Gaza? A future on Earth, not in paradise. Do you think that the settlement is west bank is constructive? I think it's destructive, then there is where Palestinian should protest. How? Not like 7oct. Everything is a mess there, but emotional behavior is not the answer 

Edited 7 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

@zazen

2 hours ago, zazen said:

 

Ask yourself: why when 7oct happened, the Gazans become ecstatic, shouting and dancing in the streets? What mentality drove them to do this? Perhaps they thought that thanks to October 7th, their children would have a better life? That they would achieve a state of success and happiness? What exactly brought them to such overwhelming joy? 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Look, it's obvious there's hunger in Gaza, because supplying a city in those conditions is a very difficult challenge. But saying that Israel is using hunger as a weapon could be false. Why? What is Israel seeking with Starvation? First, we must understand what Israel wants to do with Gaza and the Gazans, and then deduce what it's doing with the supplies. In Europe, it's said that what Israel is doing is genocidal and that it wants to eliminate the Gazans. This lacks logic, it's impossible. Israel wants to expulse them? Maybe, but where?

Cleanse it is what they want to do - as they've stated so many times and as their actions are in line with. Blockading and siege is a pressure tactic to achieve that. They want to make it ''un-liveable''.

''The Israeli government is reportedly planning to ratchet up its blockade on Gaza as part of what it has called a “hell plan” to pressure Hamas into further hostage releases without a troop withdrawal from the Palestinian territory.''

''The government of Benjamin Netanyahu was reported to have made preparations to go beyond the suspension of food and fuel announced on Sunday''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/03/israel-prepares-gaza-hell-plan-to-pile-pressure-on-hamas-reports?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Eiland stated that Hamas would "either have to surrender or to starve," saying that "it will not be necessary" for the Israeli military to kill everyone in northern Gaza as "people will not be able to live there. The water will dry up."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_generals'_plan?utm_source=chatgpt.com

___

 

Look, we can argue about intent being there or not. But the outcome is the same as you've admitted - hunger is there. There's a difference between saying starvation is being committed (with intent) vs starvation is occurring (as a by product of war and logistic difficulty). Regardless of intent - the end outcome of starvation is happening and it's tied to Israeli actions - even if the intent isn't there.

Let's say I don't have the intent to kill you and I tell you I want to target the criminal in your building. I warn you and give you time to leave - then destroy the building hoping I got the criminal. Okay - that's overkill to do that anyway because that action alone has still made you homeless, but lets accept it as needed to get the criminal. You now go to seek refuge next door - and then I say the same thing to you again and again and again until most of your city is destroyed. I destroyed even the places you sought refuge in, even the tents, even the health care system, even the schools - and everything that makes the place livable.

Do I now excuse my actions by saying my intent wasn't to kill you and that I warned you? The end effect is that I've made the place unlivable for you. Whoopsie, I may or not mot have hit the targeted criminal but you live in un-livable conditions hehe whoopsie sorry.

Do you see how retarded that is? At some point it must occur that your actions are causing these issues. It's not like Israeli's are so ''present to the moment'' like eckhart tolle that they don't realize the consequences of their actions and can't see that they’re destroying the entire place. 

They can't just wave it away with plausible deniability by saying they warned them to leave and didn't target them, but just kept targeting place after place until the entire place has become the target and is now un-livable.

Edited 5 hours ago by zazen

[zazen]

49 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@zazen

Ask yourself: why when 7oct happened, the Gazans become ecstatic, shouting and dancing in the streets? What mentality drove them to do this? Perhaps they thought that thanks to October 7th, their children would have a better life? That they would achieve a state of success and happiness? What exactly brought them to such overwhelming joy? 

Ask yourself why anti-colonial and anti-imperial struggles happened. Then you''ll understand why October 7th happened. 

Your psychoanalyzing the situation rather than structurally analyzing it - ''oh what were their emotions and facial expression on October 7th'' - think bigger, zoom out and get to the root cause instead of deflecting and defending the structural injustice at hand that obviously distorts the psyche of the people the injustice is being inflicted upon.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, zazen said:

The government of Benjamin Netanyahu was reported to have made preparations to go beyond the suspension of food and fuel announced on Sunday''

It seems the thing didn't happen. Of course, if it were up to Ben Hvir, Smotrich, and the others, they would have done it until they let them die, but seeing the evidence, it's clear to me that it hasn't happened. Israel has fed a population of 2 million enemies for two years properly. Maybe Israel is evil in other aspects, but not this one

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Ask yourself why anti-colonial and anti-imperial struggles happened. Then you''ll understand why October 7th happened. 

Your psychoanalyzing the situation rather than structurally analyzing it - ''oh what were their emotions and facial expression on October 7th'' - think bigger, zoom out and get to the root cause instead of deflecting and defending the structural injustice at hand that obviously distorts the psyche of the people the injustice is being inflicted upon.

Viewing the picture from a perspective of good versus evil, with the Palestinians being the good, and thus justifying massacres and torture of civilians as being caused by the evil colonialists who have been killed, is a philosophy that makes any understanding impossible, leaving only the recourse to force.

If you don't understand that celebrating with extreme joy the gang rape, torture and murder of 18 year old girls, civilians in their homes, children, has been one of the causes of the destruction of Gaza, it is clear that you can only see a biased perspective.

Burning girls alive, parading girls with all their bones broken in a parade through the streets while the population in a collective orgasm beats them with sticks while shouting Allah Akbar, is something that makes peace impossible. If you don't see, then you are simply blind.

Maybe the cause is the nakba in your opinion, but now what happened is that, and the consequence is devastation . Would be better forgetting that about colonialism as an excuse for killings and focusing in the future of the new generations.

Btw, the speech like: you are blind, etc, it's not concretely to you, but to the vast majority of western people that now see Israel as absolute evil . I think that they are under very high pressure, in a very difficult situation.

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall  No where did I justify October 7th - you just miss the forest for the trees continuously which is why Raze lets AI do the wasteful work of stooping to the level of your arguments.

Notice how you either don’t engage with the point, strawman it, or move the goalpost once logically cornered.

First you said no starvation or mass hunger is there, now you say it is obvious it is there - well done.

Then I leave behind the argument revolving around intent being there (despite providing statements and plans of it being there) to cause hunger as a pressure tactic. I instead go on to show you how regardless of intent - Israeli actions are causing those unlivable conditions.

But you still say it wasn’t there intent and civilians aren’t targeted because their warned. I address that by extrapolating it out to what we have now which is that the other buildings they go to continue to be destroyed until the whole place becomes destroyed - unlivable. You don’t even  address it - perhaps because you can’t.

So now you simply justify Israel’s actions of collective punishment as necessary because of the psychotic behaviour of the few among them - never mind the conditions that may have caused them to become the way they are, and the fact that continuing and worsening those conditions keeps them that way.

You basically argue for collective punishment. Your logic could be used to bomb the entire Caribbean because of the depraved acts of Epstein Island or perhaps Israel because of the psychotic chants of Maccabi fans.

I hope you can see my profile picture and zoom in enough to read the caption.

Edited 3 hours ago by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

First you said no starvation or mass hunger is there, now you say it is obvious it is there - well done.

No, i said that there is not starvation used as a war weapon, there is lack of supplies due the situation, but most of people are in good physical condition. Starvation as a war weapon is different.

1 hour ago, zazen said:

No where did I justify October 7th - you just miss the forest for the trees continuously which is why Raze lets AI do the wasteful work of stooping to the level of your arguments.

You said this:

3 hours ago, zazen said:

Ask yourself why anti-colonial and anti-imperial struggles happened. Then you''ll understand why October 7th happened. 

Don't get angry if i say that seems a kind of justification. Maybe you want to start as raze, insulting? I think you are in another level, don't start with this attitude 

1 hour ago, zazen said:

instead go on to show you how regardless of intent - Israeli actions are causing those unlivable conditions

Yes , destroying the buildings, not by starvation 

1 hour ago, zazen said:

So now you simply justify Israel’s actions of collective punishment as necessary because of the psychotic behaviour of the few among them

70% of Gazans supported the 8oct, but supposedly it's not a collective punishment but a way to finish Hamas 

1 hour ago, zazen said:

You basically argue for collective punishment. Your logic could be used to bomb the entire Caribbean because of the depraved acts of Epstein Island or perhaps Israel because of the psychotic chants of Maccabi fans.

Well, if you don't want to understand, it's your choice. You're too attached to one side to see clearly.

Since you're genuinely interested in the human dynamics that govern the world, I think it would be good for you to exercise detachment, to put yourself completely in the other side's shoes, without reservations. Then you'll be able to speak without so many barriers

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall Asking you to examine why October 7th happened, its root cause and the conditions that would lead to it - isn’t justifying it.

The 70% support could be for breaking the siege and the act of resistance itself - not the horrific crimes that were done on the day. For Gazans that was a crack made in a prison wall - that doesn’t mean they supported the brutality of what happened when Hamas went across the wall.

Before October 7th - a 2023 Pew survey found nearly half of Jewish Israelis believed Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel. Does that justify their punishment? Obviously not.

Whether they’re making Gaza un-livable through starvation or destroying buildings is beside the main point - which is that they are making it un-livable to begin with. You call it destroying Hamas but it’s collective punishment in practice.

If you rob me then I target you with a nuke - aren’t I in effect collectively punishing everyone around you because of the method and tool I use to “target” you? It’s like trying to blow out a candle with a flamethrower and burning the whole house down - “but I targeted the candle bro my bad”.

Edited 25 minutes ago by zazen