Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Breakingthewall]

@Raze try to see the world without the Muslim filter. Do it like a real experiment. I listen many Palestinian that are awake, they preach the right of the Jews to be in Israel and the peace and adaptation to Israeli way of life. They are extremely brave. Some were terrorist imprisoned, others become Christians. Extremely brave people . Samer sinijlawi for example.

Edited September 30 by Breakingthewall

[zazen]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

The head is not of islam, don't be more victimist that the usual in a Muslim. I exposed my view, we will see in a year who's right. Just remember this conversation. 

Obviously not - but you’d love it to be as your on some crusade against “evil Islam”.

How do you explain Muslims living relatively peacefully for many centuries with Jews before hand?

Is Hindutva not an exclusionary ideology? The idea of Hindu Rashtra? What about the caste system where you have literal untouchables?

 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, zazen said:

Obviously not - but you’d love it to be as your on some crusade against “evil Islam”.

How do you explain Muslims living relatively peacefully for many centuries with Jews before hand?

Is Hindutva not an exclusionary ideology? The idea of Hindu Rashtra? What about the caste system where you have literal untouchables?

 

There has been horrible violence and injustice in every religion. The worst in Christianity. The number one sons of bitches in history. But it wasn't caused by Christianity itself. Christianity is a philosophy of love and forgiveness that points to the divine.

Islam has perhaps been more peaceful than Christianity throughout human history, but the Quran points to violence, exclusion, terror, and punishment (not to mention issues involving minors). Christianity is timeless. Islam expired in the 14th century.

Btw, a lot of Muslims are becoming christians. Did you know that? There are forums of ex Muslims very active. They have to be brave, independent spirits.

Edited September 30 by Breakingthewall

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Raze try to see the world without the Muslim filter. Do it like a real experiment. I listen many Palestinian that are awake, they preach the right of the Jews to be in Israel and the peace and adaptation to Israeli way of life. They are extremely brave. Some were terrorist imprisoned, others become Christians. Extremely brave people . Samer sinijlawi for example.

Nice. There is a hope.

[Nivsch]

@Raze The opposition parties (even part of Likud) were all for a Palestinian state before oct7 and from following them I believe they still do, but can't declare on it now as it is publicly sensitive today. Let the collective trauma cool a little bit. 

Edited September 30 by Nivsch

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Raze try to see the world without the Muslim filter. Do it like a real experiment. I listen many Palestinian that are awake, they preach the right of the Jews to be in Israel and the peace and adaptation to Israeli way of life. They are extremely brave. Some were terrorist imprisoned, others become Christians. Extremely brave people . Samer sinijlawi for example.

 

Quote

 

Examples of his criticism

Moral red lines & civilian suffering
He has said that Israel has “crossed moral red lines” in the war. UK Parliament Committees
He points out the humanitarian cost in Gaza — large numbers of civilian deaths, displacement, and the toll of Israeli military operations. He argues there’s a human catastrophe happening. אוניברסיטת אריאל בשומרון+1

Ceasefire and end of war
He has called for an immediate ceasefire, because of the ongoing civilian suffering in Gaza. UK Parliament Committees+1

Criticism of leadership in Israel
He has criticized Israeli leadership, particularly under Benjamin Netanyahu, implying obstruction of peace prospects: e.g. when he suggests that “only a change of political leadership in Palestine and Israel can promote dialogue and the resumption of peace negotiations.” Agensir+1

On settlements & feasibility of two‑states
He’s made arguments that the current facts on the ground (settlements, infrastructure, demography) make the two‑state solution increasingly difficult. The Jewish Chronicle

Shared responsibility and acknowledgement
He has said that both sides (Israel and Palestinians) have done things wrong. For example, he has said:

“We have both added a new horrific chapter… We did terrible things to the Jews and the Jews did terrible things to us… The reality is more complex…” The Blogs at The Times of Israel+1
And also, as quoted in evidence, that some of the actions of Israel in Gaza are “done in my name” by Israelis and that there needs to be responsibility taken.

Interesting, even the people you quote don’t agree with you.

Try looking at it outside of your bubble of ignorance, stubbornness, and simple mindedness. 

Edited September 30 by Raze

[Nivsch]

Benett in 2015:

" Bennett emphasized the fundamental difference between ‘Likud’ and ‘The Jewish Home’ and said: ‘The Jewish Home is essentially the only party that opposes a Palestinian state; all the other parties support a Palestinian state. It is the only party that acted against the release of terrorists, while all the others essentially voted in favor.' "

https://mobile.srugim.co.il/article/105276

Edited September 30 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, zazen said:

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Interesting, even the people you quote don’t agree with you.

Try looking at it outside of your bubble of ignorance, stubbornness, and simple mindedness. 

 

Of course he's criticizing Israel's attitude in the invasion of Gaza. Obviously, there have been excesses. It's a war, right? 

But take the final message: don't be so narrow-minded. Don't you see that he's taking responsibility? I wish more Muslims would do the same. Listen this guy, he's a hope. 

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course he's criticizing Israel's attitude in the invasion of Gaza. Obviously, there have been excesses. It's a war, right? 

But take the final message: don't be so narrow-minded. Don't you see that he's taking responsibility? I wish more Muslims would do the same. Listen this guy, he's a hope. 

It’s actually not obvious, since you were just ranting about how Israel’s behavior was perfect and everyone criticizing it was a leftist because they expect too much of them,

You asking others not to be narrow minded is priceless. You reject anything related to nuance even to the point of ignoring factual statements and divert everything to ranting about Islam. 

[UnbornTao]

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can see in raze that with the Muslims reasoning is impossible. Only the force works. They will cry and blame always, the center of their psyche is blaming west. Without west islam would be a paradise. But west is the obstacle to the muslim utopia. Some of them, those who are smart, realize the delusion and abandon islam. In Iran there are millions, it's quite dramatic in many cases because they have to deal with their families 

@Raze has told you he's not a muslim.

[Breakingthewall]

Another Palestinian who speaks about peace

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Raze has told you he's not a muslim.

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

It’s actually not obvious, since you were just ranting about how Israel’s behavior was perfect and everyone criticizing it was a leftist because they expect too much of them,

You asking others not to be narrow minded is priceless. You reject anything related to nuance even to the point of ignoring factual statements and divert everything to ranting about Islam. 

I don't think that Israeli behavior is perfect at all, settlement are very bad and many other things. 

I said that the attitude in the invasión of gaza in my opinion was the best possiblity possible due the circumstances. It's my opinion, could be much worse, and I think that it's the beginning of the peace in my opinion. Just my opinion, then in 1 or 2 years, we will see if I'm right or absolutely wrong 

Edited September 30 by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

 

Stop playing dumb, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you on this of being Muslim as part of you idiotic bigotry and conspiracy brainrot.

Edited September 30 by Raze

[UnbornTao]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

According to him, he did say that multiple times. If not, now you know.

I'm not really into the conversation but thanks for letting me know.

Edited September 30 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Stop playing dumb, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you on this of being Muslim as part of you idiotic bigotry and conspiracy brianrot. 

I don't care if you are Muslim or not, I thought you are because you show the usual victimism that Muslims do, it's the same if you are christian or atheist. With those words you just show your lack of mental freedom, seems that you are a hooligan. Maybe you are not Muslim, but you are not free at all. I just expressed an opinion, if you don't like, that's life. Just wait 1 year and we will see who's right. If you are, I will remember you it

[Breakingthewall]

To say more: I bet that the war in gaza is going to end in few days and Donald is going to get the Nobel prize, the final joke. I bet a dinner with you, raze, if you promise don't stab me. 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I said that the attitude in the invasión of gaza in my opinion was the best possiblity possible due the circumstances. It's my opinion, could be much worse, and I think that it's the beginning of the peace in my opinion. Just my opinion, then in 1 or 2 years, we will see if I'm right or absolutely wrong 

If it was done mostly from air, surgical on seniors of hamas and much shorter in time, then it was rational, but we have a government ruled by extreme tiny parties that can collapse it in any moment if Netanyahu won't do what they ask him to do. This is the main reason.

Edited September 30 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If it was done mostly from air, surgical on seniors of hamas and much shorter in time, then it was rational, but we have a government ruled by extreme tiny parties that can collapse it in any moment if Netanyahu won't do what they ask him to do. This is the main reason.

If what you say had been done, it would have been a temporary arrangement. Hamas would have found other leaders, children would still be educated in self-immolation as the supreme value and in hatred of Jews as the absolute paradigm, and in three years there would have been another war.

It seems people have trouble understanding that until the Palestinians focus on the positive, that is, on the future of their children, and not on the negative, the disappearance of Israel, there will be no future for them.

But the problem with Islam is that for them, the only interesting future is Allah's paradise; on Earth, it's all victimhood and hatred of those who are different. Black-hooded party.

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall When in your mind is a victim a victim? Being subjugated for 70 years and besieged for 20 means you aren’t victim to anything?

If I’m pinning you down to the floor and you start screaming and trying to kick me off - you’re not a victim of anything and should sit there quietly?

You’re not taking into account how material conditions warp peoples ideologies and beliefs. Your saying Islam is inherently violent - but it’s mainly violent because Muslims in conflict zones manifest religion militantly. Definetely it’s not a pacifist turn the other cheek type religion - but so did Christianity manifest in ugly ways despite such remarks by their lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

If Hindus or Christians were put under the same conditions, they would likely do the same.  If Dalits and Muslims actually occupied and structurally dominated Hindus in India (as Israel does to Palestinians) the response would likely be radicalization of Hinduism and an ugly manifestation of it in reaction to that material condition. That doesn’t mean Hinduism is inherently violent. 

[Leo Gura]

Joke: When Netanyahu gets to Hell, he will negotiate an arrangement to take 78% of Satan's land for the Jews. Satan's demons will be left hungry and crying. Jews will set fire to Satan's olive trees. Satan will be left scratching his head, "Who's the boss here?"

Edited October 1 by Leo Gura