Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Chatgpt says that. I my opinion it forget the point of the area, the Muslim territory, that is essential to understand why this conflict never ended, when the abuse committed by the Jews is much less than Bosnia or china , and started as defense. 

Why Bosnian Muslims Did Not Turn to Extremism

The Bosnian Muslims, despite enduring genocide and the destruction of their communities, did not transform their trauma into religious militancy. Their collective response reveals how the structure of a culture—its degree of openness—determines the direction of suffering.

A European and moderate Islam
Bosnian Islam was not tribal or salafist. It was deeply European—shaped by Ottoman heritage but secularized through literacy, urban life, and coexistence. Religion was identity, not ideology. The people sought justice, not jihad.

A national, not a holy war
The Bosnian war was fought along ethnic lines—Serb, Croat, Bosniak—but its root was nationalist, not religious. When it ended, Bosnians aimed to rebuild a country, not a caliphate.

Leadership and restraint
Post-war Bosnian leaders focused on economic reconstruction and European integration. Imported jihadist groups existed, but the society rejected them. Their psychological gravity pointed toward rebuilding, not revenge.

Structural psychology of trauma
The Bosnians transformed their suffering into a future. The Palestinians, by contrast, crystallized theirs into identity. One path opens the wound toward healing; the other closes it around pain.

In essence: Bosnia’s Islam survived tragedy because its core structure was relational and open.
Palestine’s struggle persists because its structure remains closed—defined not by what it seeks to build, but by what it refuses to release.

 

The reply you’ve quoted is not just weak — it’s a masterclass in historical cherry-picking, cultural essentialism, and intellectual evasion. It doesn't meaningfully engage with the arguments it purports to respond to. Instead of grappling with the central claims — namely, that Palestinian resistance has deep secular, anti-colonial, and humanitarian roots, and that Israeli violence is not absolved by pointing at other global atrocities — the reply pivots to a sentimentalized, selective account of Bosnian restraint, as if that somehow disproves anything previously said. It doesn’t. It’s a deflection, not a rebuttal — the rhetorical equivalent of mumbling "but they’re different" after being thoroughly out-argued.

First, the claim that the Bosnians didn't turn to extremism because their "Islam was European" is a colonial fantasy dressed up as sociological analysis. It's Orientalism 101 — the idea that there’s a “good,” modern, European Islam (docile, secularized, traumatized into silence) versus a “bad,” Arab Islam (tribal, dogmatic, irrational). This isn’t analysis — it’s a lazy civilizational narrative that recycles old tropes about “open” vs. “closed” cultures with zero empirical rigor. It conveniently ignores the fact that foreign jihadists did enter Bosnia during the war, that radicalization did occur in small pockets, and that what largely prevented widespread extremism wasn’t cultural psychology but international intervention, peacekeeping forces, and the eventual promise of EU integration — none of which have ever been seriously extended to the Palestinians.

Second, the idea that Bosnians turned their trauma “toward the future” while Palestinians are “defined by pain” is an obscene trivialization of one of the most systematically brutalized populations on Earth. Palestinians are not the authors of their own statelessness, their checkpoints, their sieges, or the apartheid wall slicing through their land. They did not "choose" to crystallize around pain — they have been denied every serious opportunity to pursue a future by an occupation that destroys schools, jails children, murders journalists, and bombs refugee camps. Comparing that to a post-war Bosnia — which, while still fragile, had a peace accord, international legitimacy, and reconstruction funds — is both dishonest and cruel.

The person’s understanding of the subject? Shallow, rigid, and fundamentally unserious. They are not trying to understand the dynamics of either Bosnia or Palestine — they’re weaponizing one against the other to make a moral argument they don’t have the tools to defend on its own terms. They treat Islam not as a faith but as a psychological condition, reducing entire populations to deterministic models of behavior based on how "open" or "closed" their religion supposedly is — as though Islam in Gaza and Islam in Sarajevo are monolithic, one-dimensional, and culturally immobile.

And let’s be clear: their claim that the abuses by Israel are “much less than Bosnia or China” is not only factually disputable — it’s morally bankrupt. The magnitude of suffering is not a scoreboard for atrocity justification. Saying “Israel’s crimes aren’t as bad” is not a defense; it’s an admission of guilt cloaked in a false hierarchy of horror. It's the moral logic of a bureaucrat at a war crimes tribunal trying to shave years off a sentence by pointing to someone else who murdered more people. It’s cowardice, not argument.

In the end, this person doesn't engage in political reasoning — they peddle civilizational storytelling. They reduce complex, multi-generational conflicts to personality disorders and cultural defects. They think referencing Bosnia as an "open" Islamic culture is enough to silence the realities of settler colonialism, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. They can’t argue with facts, so they moralize with false binaries. They can’t see the Palestinians as full human beings, so they pathologize them as prisoners of their own religion. It’s not just intellectually weak — it’s ethically repugnant.

This isn’t the mind of a critical thinker. It’s the voice of someone terrified of moral ambiguity, desperately clinging to simplistic narratives to avoid confronting the ugly truths of occupation and oppression. In short: this person isn't debating — they're rationalizing, and doing it very badly.

[Karmadhi]

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi It is a big problem of corruption within the system which worsens after trauma. What America did after 9/11 wasn't better.

I see it as a combination of feeling superior above citizens of the so called enemy country, along with fear, rage and desire for vengeance.

It is important to remember that in both Israeli and American societies only a very small number of people are actualy capable of torturing others.

See for example Guatanamo prison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

Edited 13 hours ago by Nivsch

[Raze]

15 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

 

[Nivsch]

[zazen]

6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

Baffles me too: https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1978579570333757891?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ