Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Raze try to see the world without the Muslim filter. Do it like a real experiment. I listen many Palestinian that are awake, they preach the right of the Jews to be in Israel and the peace and adaptation to Israeli way of life. They are extremely brave. Some were terrorist imprisoned, others become Christians. Extremely brave people . Samer sinijlawi for example.

 

Quote

 

Examples of his criticism

Moral red lines & civilian suffering
He has said that Israel has “crossed moral red lines” in the war. UK Parliament Committees
He points out the humanitarian cost in Gaza — large numbers of civilian deaths, displacement, and the toll of Israeli military operations. He argues there’s a human catastrophe happening. אוניברסיטת אריאל בשומרון+1

Ceasefire and end of war
He has called for an immediate ceasefire, because of the ongoing civilian suffering in Gaza. UK Parliament Committees+1

Criticism of leadership in Israel
He has criticized Israeli leadership, particularly under Benjamin Netanyahu, implying obstruction of peace prospects: e.g. when he suggests that “only a change of political leadership in Palestine and Israel can promote dialogue and the resumption of peace negotiations.” Agensir+1

On settlements & feasibility of two‑states
He’s made arguments that the current facts on the ground (settlements, infrastructure, demography) make the two‑state solution increasingly difficult. The Jewish Chronicle

Shared responsibility and acknowledgement
He has said that both sides (Israel and Palestinians) have done things wrong. For example, he has said:

“We have both added a new horrific chapter… We did terrible things to the Jews and the Jews did terrible things to us… The reality is more complex…” The Blogs at The Times of Israel+1
And also, as quoted in evidence, that some of the actions of Israel in Gaza are “done in my name” by Israelis and that there needs to be responsibility taken.

Interesting, even the people you quote don’t agree with you.

Try looking at it outside of your bubble of ignorance, stubbornness, and simple mindedness. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:03 PM by Raze

[Nivsch]

Benett in 2015:

" Bennett emphasized the fundamental difference between ‘Likud’ and ‘The Jewish Home’ and said: ‘The Jewish Home is essentially the only party that opposes a Palestinian state; all the other parties support a Palestinian state. It is the only party that acted against the release of terrorists, while all the others essentially voted in favor.' "

https://mobile.srugim.co.il/article/105276

Edited Tuesday at 09:13 PM by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, zazen said:

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Interesting, even the people you quote don’t agree with you.

Try looking at it outside of your bubble of ignorance, stubbornness, and simple mindedness. 

 

Of course he's criticizing Israel's attitude in the invasion of Gaza. Obviously, there have been excesses. It's a war, right? 

But take the final message: don't be so narrow-minded. Don't you see that he's taking responsibility? I wish more Muslims would do the same. Listen this guy, he's a hope. 

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course he's criticizing Israel's attitude in the invasion of Gaza. Obviously, there have been excesses. It's a war, right? 

But take the final message: don't be so narrow-minded. Don't you see that he's taking responsibility? I wish more Muslims would do the same. Listen this guy, he's a hope. 

It’s actually not obvious, since you were just ranting about how Israel’s behavior was perfect and everyone criticizing it was a leftist because they expect too much of them,

You asking others not to be narrow minded is priceless. You reject anything related to nuance even to the point of ignoring factual statements and divert everything to ranting about Islam. 

[UnbornTao]

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can see in raze that with the Muslims reasoning is impossible. Only the force works. They will cry and blame always, the center of their psyche is blaming west. Without west islam would be a paradise. But west is the obstacle to the muslim utopia. Some of them, those who are smart, realize the delusion and abandon islam. In Iran there are millions, it's quite dramatic in many cases because they have to deal with their families 

@Raze has told you he's not a muslim.

[Breakingthewall]

Another Palestinian who speaks about peace

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Raze has told you he's not a muslim.

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

It’s actually not obvious, since you were just ranting about how Israel’s behavior was perfect and everyone criticizing it was a leftist because they expect too much of them,

You asking others not to be narrow minded is priceless. You reject anything related to nuance even to the point of ignoring factual statements and divert everything to ranting about Islam. 

I don't think that Israeli behavior is perfect at all, settlement are very bad and many other things. 

I said that the attitude in the invasión of gaza in my opinion was the best possiblity possible due the circumstances. It's my opinion, could be much worse, and I think that it's the beginning of the peace in my opinion. Just my opinion, then in 1 or 2 years, we will see if I'm right or absolutely wrong 

Edited Tuesday at 09:20 PM by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

 

Stop playing dumb, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you on this of being Muslim as part of you idiotic bigotry and conspiracy brainrot.

Edited Tuesday at 09:25 PM by Raze

[UnbornTao]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When? If I remember well he's Muslim living in London. My mother was Muslim btw, and she become Christian. My grand parents were Muslim and my aunt 

According to him, he did say that multiple times. If not, now you know.

I'm not really into the conversation but thanks for letting me know.

Edited Tuesday at 09:23 PM by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Stop playing dumb, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you on this of being Muslim as part of you idiotic bigotry and conspiracy brianrot. 

I don't care if you are Muslim or not, I thought you are because you show the usual victimism that Muslims do, it's the same if you are christian or atheist. With those words you just show your lack of mental freedom, seems that you are a hooligan. Maybe you are not Muslim, but you are not free at all. I just expressed an opinion, if you don't like, that's life. Just wait 1 year and we will see who's right. If you are, I will remember you it

[Breakingthewall]

To say more: I bet that the war in gaza is going to end in few days and Donald is going to get the Nobel prize, the final joke. I bet a dinner with you, raze, if you promise don't stab me. 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I said that the attitude in the invasión of gaza in my opinion was the best possiblity possible due the circumstances. It's my opinion, could be much worse, and I think that it's the beginning of the peace in my opinion. Just my opinion, then in 1 or 2 years, we will see if I'm right or absolutely wrong 

If it was done mostly from air, surgical on seniors of hamas and much shorter in time, then it was rational, but we have a government ruled by extreme tiny parties that can collapse it in any moment if Netanyahu won't do what they ask him to do. This is the main reason.

Edited Tuesday at 11:14 PM by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If it was done mostly from air, surgical on seniors of hamas and much shorter in time, then it was rational, but we have a government ruled by extreme tiny parties that can collapse it in any moment if Netanyahu won't do what they ask him to do. This is the main reason.

If what you say had been done, it would have been a temporary arrangement. Hamas would have found other leaders, children would still be educated in self-immolation as the supreme value and in hatred of Jews as the absolute paradigm, and in three years there would have been another war.

It seems people have trouble understanding that until the Palestinians focus on the positive, that is, on the future of their children, and not on the negative, the disappearance of Israel, there will be no future for them.

But the problem with Islam is that for them, the only interesting future is Allah's paradise; on Earth, it's all victimhood and hatred of those who are different. Black-hooded party.

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall When in your mind is a victim a victim? Being subjugated for 70 years and besieged for 20 means you aren’t victim to anything?

If I’m pinning you down to the floor and you start screaming and trying to kick me off - you’re not a victim of anything and should sit there quietly?

You’re not taking into account how material conditions warp peoples ideologies and beliefs. Your saying Islam is inherently violent - but it’s mainly violent because Muslims in conflict zones manifest religion militantly. Definetely it’s not a pacifist turn the other cheek type religion - but so did Christianity manifest in ugly ways despite such remarks by their lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

If Hindus or Christians were put under the same conditions, they would likely do the same.  If Dalits and Muslims actually occupied and structurally dominated Hindus in India (as Israel does to Palestinians) the response would likely be radicalization of Hinduism and an ugly manifestation of it in reaction to that material condition. That doesn’t mean Hinduism is inherently violent. 

[Leo Gura]

Joke: When Netanyahu gets to Hell, he will negotiate an arrangement to take 78% of Satan's land for the Jews. Satan's demons will be left hungry and crying. Jews will set fire to Satan's olive trees. Satan will be left scratching his head, "Who's the boss here?"

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 AM by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Breakingthewall When in your mind is a victim a victim? Being subjugated for 70 years and besieged for 20 means you aren’t victim to anything?

If I’m pinning you down to the floor and you start screaming and trying to kick me off - you’re not a victim of anything and should sit there quietly?

You’re not taking into account how material conditions warp peoples ideologies and beliefs. Your saying Islam is inherently violent - but it’s mainly violent because Muslims in conflict zones manifest religion militantly. Definetely it’s not a pacifist turn the other cheek type religion - but so did Christianity manifest in ugly ways despite such remarks by their lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

If Hindus or Christians were put under the same conditions, they would likely do the same.  If Dalits and Muslims actually occupied and structurally dominated Hindus in India (as Israel does to Palestinians) the response would likely be radicalization of Hinduism and an ugly manifestation of it in reaction to that material condition. That doesn’t mean Hinduism is inherently violent. 

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

s

The Palestinians tried to expel the Jews since 1948. They failed. After several wars, the Jews emerged as the strongest group. Two million Arabs live in Israel. All the signs in highways and street are in Hebrew and Arabic. They have the right to their religion. In Tel Aviv, the Islamic prayer is sung on the minarets. All the Arab women are covered. Muslims work as doctors, lawyers, and politicians. Enough with this victimism. No one has their knee on anyone's neck. Israel is the only country in the Gulf where you're not sentenced to death for being gay. What are you talking about? Israel is not perfect? Who is? Try to adapt and live, there are many Islamic Utopia around, like Iran, Irak or Yemen. I think there are enough muslim paradises around. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:18 AM by Breakingthewall

[Nivsch]

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Palestinians tried to expel the Jews since 1948. They failed. After several wars, the Jews emerged as the strongest group. Two million Arabs live in Israel. All the signs in highways and street are in Hebrew and Arabic. They have the right to their religion. In Tel Aviv, the Islamic prayer is sung on the minarets. All the Arab women are covered. Muslims work as doctors, lawyers, and politicians. Enough with this victimism. No one has their knee on anyone's neck. Israel is the only country in the Gulf where you're not sentenced to death for being gay. What are you talking about? Israel is not perfect? Who is? Try to adapt and live, there are many Islamic Utopia around, like Iran, Irak or Yemen. I think there are enough muslim paradises around. 

In this you don't need to convince me, I agree with you here.

2M Palestinians are co-exist with the Jews inside every major Israeli city.

Edited Wednesday at 09:41 AM by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

55 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

In this you don't need to convince me, I agree with you here.

2M Palestinians are co-exist with the Jews inside every major Israeli city.

Sorry I quoted you by mistake, the message was to zazen, who talked about how the Israeli oppress the Palestinian. I think the Palestinian could talk about oppression when their main goal is developing as society and not the dissapearance of Israel. Difficult since islamist tend always to victimism and revenge, but let's see if they realize that it's impossible, then it's better looking forward than backwards. The problem is that looking forward needs some work, not just cry.

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura Jews are tired of Netanyahu and prefer he will stay in hell alone.

Edited Wednesday at 12:09 PM by Nivsch

[zazen]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Palestinians tried to expel the Jews since 1948. They failed. After several wars, the Jews emerged as the strongest group. Two million Arabs live in Israel. All the signs in highways and street are in Hebrew and Arabic. They have the right to their religion. In Tel Aviv, the Islamic prayer is sung on the minarets. All the Arab women are covered. Muslims work as doctors, lawyers, and politicians. Enough with this victimism. No one has their knee on anyone's neck. Israel is the only country in the Gulf where you're not sentenced to death for being gay. What are you talking about? Israel is not perfect? Who is? Try to adapt and live, there are many Islamic Utopia around, like Iran, Irak or Yemen. I think there are enough muslim paradises around. 

Guess what happened in 1948 that you omit so you can maintain your own skewed narrative - the Nakba that started this entire shit show. Israel’s entire project has always been about maintaining a Jewish majority state, which is why the Nakba happened in the first place. Zionist militias decided there were too many Arabs on the land they wanted for a Jewish state, and then violently expelled them to create an artificial demographic majority. That was the point then, and it’s the point now.

You can't point at cosmetic co-existence of Palestinians within Israel while ignoring that the oppression isn’t primarily about Palestinian citizens inside Israel proper. It's about millions of Palestinians living under military occupation outside Israel proper in disputed territory (internationally recognized as Palestinians) in the West Bank and under siege in Gaza - people Israel don't want to absorb because doing so would undo the Jewish demographic majority they desire. Also - what does it tell you if Palestinians are able to ''co-exist with Jews'' inside Israel? I thought their backward violent and barbaric Muslims? Or are they not related somehow to the Palestinians just across the border from them? Are these the enlightened Palestinians who read eckhart tolle?

Millions of Palestinians have been kept in limbo for decades because they won't be absorbed into a single state with equal rights, neither will they be allowed their own state to exist within outside of Israel and recognized by the international community as their inalienable right. You can't have it both ways - you can't deny people coming in to exist as equals in one state, then deny them their own state when they try to exist outside of it.

I'm not saying Israel needs to be perfect - your the one pointing at Muslims at not being perfect and deserving less because of it. You afford other religions nuance but deny Islam and Muslims their own with your bigoted commented. Moral perfection isn't a requirement for political liberation that's already acknowledged by the world, but that is simultaneously denied by Western hegemony.

You've acknowledged Christians have done plenty of bad - yet you don't conflate Christianity as evil. I've pointed out to you the caste system of India (linked and reinforced via Hinduism) in which a entire group of people are literally seen as untouchable (1 in 5 Indians are Dalits - 200 million approx) - do I then go and conflate Hindusism as evil? Obviously not because I'm not retarded. Child marriage is also pervasive in India - are you gonna now say that that's only because of the 200 million muslims doing it and the Hindus don't? You don't see me or anyone playing conflation Olympics to demean a entire religion do you. Up your nuance game before commenting.