Am I an artist

[Leo Gura]

A lot of bad art these days is just a corruption by rampant capitalism. The Disney-fication effect. It's not really art, it's a money-grab with an art veneer.

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

Edited March 15, 2024 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

That would be the other dimension I talked about: Good craftsmanship.

Being quick to judge a piece of art as good or crap also makes it likely to err sooner or later.

If that was easy to decide my life would be a lot less complicated... but also a lot less interesting

Edited March 15, 2024 by vibv

[vibv]

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Most people are not even capable of appreciating real art. You must be at least somewhat close to authenticity  in order to value authentic art. Which most people are not. That's why they gravitate towards garbage. It never stops blowing my mind.

Most people are not worthy of ever coming across a gem, a true piece of art such as this, in this fake - ass world... But here you go. I guess it's because I love you and I still have some faith in humanity lol.

Gold

Appreciate it. I like it a lot.

In my view there are paradigm shifts waiting to happen in every field, including music. One day we will recognize that art has more significance than even physics.

[Nemra]

Everyone has a different taste. In my opinion, the more purely or deeply subjective it is, the greater the art is. Demonizing shallow ones makes you a hypocrite.

Edited March 16, 2024 by Understander

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot of bad art these days is just a corruption by rampant capitalism. The Disney-fication effect. It's not really art, it's a money-grab with an art veneer.

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad. God can be found in shit as well as gold. If you see bad in reality, then you are in Devil Consciousness and aren’t in God Consciousness and therefore aren’t awake.

There is art I don’t care for, but that is my bias and has nothing to do with the art itself.

I would also argue that everyone is an artist because God is everyone. I don’t see how you come to your conclusions here. If Hitler is an artist, then Seth Godin is as well. Hell, he even writes and moves people through his words just like you do. Art is everything. This computer is art and even this post and forum is art.

Edited March 16, 2024 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad.

No. There are relatively objective measures of good vs bad art. This is distinct from whether the art aligns with your personal tastes.

For exmaple, I dislike rap and heavy metal music. But there is still a difference between good vs bad rap and heavy metal music. Just because something doesn't fit my personal tastes does not make it bad art.

Edited March 16, 2024 by Leo Gura

[BojackHorseman]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad. God can be found in shit as well as gold.

No art is actually bad, since all art can match someone's needs and make his life better for a even a moment (maybe some Marvel charactersave someone's life at some point, just for the sake of exagerating)

But I think, starting from there, we can still say that good art is art that stands out in the meta. Art that has had more thought and technical mastery used in a way that it serves the story in them.

[BojackHorseman]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. There are relatively objective measures of good vs bad art. This is distinct from whether the art aligns with your personal tastes.

For exmaple, I dislike rap and heavy metal music. But there is still a difference between good vs bad rap and heavy metal music. Just because something doesn't fit my personal tastes does not make it bad art.

Yes, usually people to go towards the same judgment about some albums. 70% of people or probably more will call such and such album great or bad.

So that definitely means that we have some kind of standards about what's good or bad.

This could be learned, maybe, but it's also certainly various parameters that make the songs more efficient in what they're trying to achieve for humans as we are to this day (maybe in 100 years this will all seem like rubbish considering how we evolve, but that's another story)

[Leo Gura]

Tastes vary widely, but everyone can tell when something is made in really poor taste.

[Salvijus]

8 hours ago, vibv said:

What even is art?

I asked once the same question on the forum and I got an answer that I remember till now even. 

"art is something that uplifts your spirit" 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

"art is something that uplifts your spirit" 

Like a basket of kittens?

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Like a basket of kittens?

Nature is very beautiful art indeed

[Salvijus]

"What is bad art"

To follow up on the previous thought. Ego is a bad art because it downlifts your spirit. And so all the manifestions of it: anger, judgement, fear, depression, attachment, lust, slothfulness, greed, disease, war etc. These expression can come through many art mediums/shapes/formats. Anything that puts you down basically. 

Edited March 16, 2024 by Salvijus

[mmKay]

Fart = F grade Art

[vibv]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Tastes vary widely, but everyone can tell when something is made in really poor taste.

People really disliked Van Goghs early works back then 

I find this whole question extremely fascinating, it resurfaces again and again for me: What makes bad Art bad Art? Who can even really judge that? "You just know it" isn't a very good argument.

I think, again, this graph gives at least a hint in some direction:

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. There are relatively objective measures of good vs bad art. This is distinct from whether the art aligns with your personal tastes.

For exmaple, I dislike rap and heavy metal music. But there is still a difference between good vs bad rap and heavy metal music. Just because something doesn't fit my personal tastes does not make it bad art.

   Nah, you just dislike when I rap in my journals.😁

[Danioover9000]

@Chadders  How are you today? Have you made some progress in your art, drawing, singing et cetera?

[Chadders]

@Danioover9000 hello I have just caught up with all this. I’m fine thanks hope you are well

I’m working on a business so that takes up most of my time. Have been doing that today. On Leo’s comment about aesthetic beauty I do like the aesthetic beauty and have a connectedness to it that I experience especially in nature. One thing I’d say with the business that I have enjoyed doing the most is graphic design. I do all of that myself. I’d like to think I am an artist but that is up to others to judge - art is highly subjective. I fucking hate admin tasks and technical stuff which to me is anti art lol (feels machine) - I try to delegate that

perhaps it’s not a binary thing that you are or are not but it’s on a spectrum. Some people are highly attuned whilst others moderately. A lot will depend on your level consciousness to connect with the beauty and recreate your own

if I compare myself now to how I was 10 years ago I would say I was less of an artist back then. It feels to me that my creative side has been mostly dormant and it’s only as I have expanded my consciousness that I have begun to delve into the creative ways more as a source of joy. I did enjoy painting models as a kid though. 
 

@Leo Gura any thoughts? Would you say your artistic nature has blossomed more with conscious development that you would now consider yourself an artist as opposed to younger Leo? Was younger Leo an artist?

 

actually on a side note as I think about it it does piss me off that in the domain of politics it’s mostly filled by technocrats and not leaders. True leaders are artists not hacks. This is the problem we have. We need truly inspiring people that connect people to higher ideals. These technocrats are managers designed for admin roles. They rely so much on data data data obsessing over polls and numbers. They agonise over it. Not that it isn’t important but their reliance on external data points and metrics tells me they have no fucking idea what they are doing. Their reality is determined by numbers rather than deeply knowing at an intuitive level what people want. In the business world Steve jobs had the intuition and didn’t agonise over data all the time. What people say they want and what they actually want can often be different  

as with politics it’s the shame with shallow corporations that have lost their soul. Their entire business is driven by big data not intuition and beauty around making great products 

Edited March 18, 2024 by Chadders

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Chadders said:

Would you say your artistic nature has blossomed more with conscious development that you would now consider yourself an artist as opposed to younger Leo? Was younger Leo an artist?

I have always been.

Edited March 18, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Chadders]

@Leo Gura was that from a conscious realisation that you became aware of that?