Zenterus

Crazy how different each man's "10" is. I look at these pictures and had to squint to find maybe 2 that fit my tastes. But I do see the value of what you're saying. Social Circle is definitely the highest form of game. If Cold Approach is hunting for food, Social Circle is farming. Way more sustainable and scalable. However, you're kidding yourself if you think you NEED to do that to get the hottest women. No matter who you are, you have to go grocery shopping every now and then, you have to walk down the street to get somewhere, you will have a friend that drags you out to a night life venue and you will inevitably be in a position to be approached by a man daring enough to try. And all it takes is one guy who is compelling enough and has the skills to move things forward in a methodical fashion for you to be seduced. I agree that a lot of men are delusional when it comes to dating, though. They need to improve themselves: hit the gym, learn charisma, work on your insecurities, develop some decent friendships, groom yourself etc etc. But the average guy, if willing to put himself out there and approach these attractive 10s can and will get one. These women are only human, dude. The 10s I've met in my life were almost all homebodies, introverted and didnt like being around people all the time. Im sure there are others who are more social, more status oriented, want to be part of a community, too. But the point is, thats not all of them. The highest form of game is realizing that these women are no different than you. Accept yourself fully, develop your character as a man (its a paradox, Im aware) and know there is a woman out there who will love who you are, right now. Having that said, I will be hosting my own container event soon and will be building my own social circle out of inspiration to do so, not because I feel like thats the ultimate way to get the type of girl I want.

I did. I definitely have a lot of avoidant tendencies and lowkey objectify people as a way to maintain emotional detatchment. Working on it though.

I do. In my current city I have 2 "normal" friends and a couple pickup buddies, although I'm only close with one. Online I have a few friends that I stay in contact with. Will see one of my long distance friends next week in Berlin and will catch up with my best friend in April, back home. Also, I'm planning to host my own meetup event soon to meet more like minded individuals. I do feel a lot of love for myself though. Way more than I did in the past, so your comment on that matter doesn't resonate with me.

@Elliott I dont watch porn much and I've gone through extensive periods without it. Granted, I do have a lot of casual sex which takes out the thirst for it. I will admit however, that during my two attempts at celibacy (both of which I failed), I did consume more porn than usual to compensate. As for my relationship to my mom.. it's ok. I did hold a lot of resentment towards her growing up that I've worked through a lot on my own, but I wont lie and say it's all been resolved. We talk, but its very surface level and polite on my part. I dont feel like i can be truly myself with her. I dont trust her with that. I've spoken to my sister about it and she does understand and relate to my experience growing up with our mom and she insists that I have a talk with her or just forgive her imperfections. Easier said than done. Fuck, im cooked arent I

And it cut deep. He doesn't even live in the same city nor country as I, but we communicate daily through whatsapp voice messages and keep each other updated on everything going on in our lives. I can understand why he would ask me that. He knows my struggle to quit pickup and to finally settle down. Yet all he hears from me all the time is how I'm hooking up with all these random ass girls, most of which I don't end up seeing for too long after and very seldom have romantic interest in. From his perspective it looks compulsive and out of alignment with what I verbally say that I want. He's sent me videos, 2 of them, where two separate sex addicts are being interviewed. Unprompted. This is kinda out of character for him. He's also a pretty wild, outgoing, naturally attractive type of guy and we usually don't send each other serious videos and such (we do talk about serious topics, though). For him to take a break from the constant meme spam that we've been doing for so long in order to send me an actual serious video is concerning to me and I am not taking it lightly. He's right, to some extent. All these women that I'm sleeping with. How come not ONE is girlfriend material? Why am I choosing to pursue women that I find sexually appealing but know for a FACT that I want no relationship with them. What's the point of that? And whenever I do find one that I am interested in for more, there's always a reason why it didn't work out: She's too old, she avoidant, one told me she had herpes and I bounced out, another doesn't fit an archetype of beauty that I like (big lips, round ass, cheekbones, basically that Kim K look). All these women. Yet I've only had 1 girlfriend in my life and it was an open relationship and I've disqualified her for a monogamous commitment from day one, because she was too old for me, I thought. There are amazing, normal, loving women around me everyday. Why am I not pursuing them? Why am I not connecting with them? I'm dealing with one right now. We have good chemistry, she's secure and confident in herself, she's smart, has a good job, she's grounded, sexual, deep, present with me, she's actively pursuing me just as much as I pursue her and I am very attracted to her both energetically and physically. Yet, again, here comes the avoidance: She's too young, she doesn't have a look that I feel fits the physical archetype I described above, etc etc Fuck, man. This burns even more because I just got the number of a very sexy milfy woman today. She's 41, but looks damn near 30, we had great chemistry, lots of flirting and she even indicated to me that "she doesn't like to go out" when I told her that I would take her to my favorite bar - the undertone being that she just wants to come over as we had already agreed to meetup soon. I open her whatsapp and I see that she has disappearing messages on, which is a telltale sign of a girl that's doing OnlyFans or is in some kind of sex work or is living a double life of some kind. That same day, I saw another girl crossing the street. Pretty girl. Normal looking, down to earth. We made eye contact, yet I didn't approach her. I "wasn't feeling it." But I was feeling the sexualized milf above, who I know for a fact is not gonna be my girl. So much to think about, man. It feels like I'm making progress but then I take a step back and realize that I've just become better at rationalizing my lifestyle. Life is crazy and so is the mind.

Push pulls are no longer working for me. Techniques and tactics only work up to a certain level. When you become a high value guy to the bone, actually being nice and normal is the way to go because women already view you as attractive and crave your validation from the jump. If they work for you, then cool, that's the level you're at.

I understand what pickup and being an attractive man is. I've been in it for 10 years at a very high level. This post is about my growth and my own development from the level that I am, not the validity of pickup theory and its utility to men who have not undergone the journey. If you ever see me give advice to anyone starting their journey, I am speaking in pickup terms and theory. However, that whole realm is no longer useful to me and has become a hinderance to my evolution.

I've been on a journey to transcend my pickup artist conditioning, after being entrenched in it for nearly 10 years. I've spoken about this venture of mine in various posts in the past, but I've since realized that killing my pickup tendencies and beliefs is going to be a much harder dragon to slay than I anticipated. Therefore, I decided to take it more seriously and devote a good chunk of my time getting to the root cause of it all and unwiring the paradigm at its core. That's what this series of posts is going to be about: Transcending Pick Up. Previous post: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/112821-escaping-the-pick-up-paradigm-insight-1/ -----ENTRY---- Had another shitty day at work. I feel burned out, angry at my manager, angry at the world, fearful, scared. I decide to take a sick day off tomorrow and do some more edibles again tonight. I have to reflect. I feel like I'm at a deep crossroads in my life that I must unearth NOW. The main difference between this and my last post is that I'm writing this one while I'm fully in it. As in "high." So this is coming straight from the horse's mouth (the "horse" being the self in this current altered state). Let's jump right in. I'm a fucking asshole to women. Point. Blanc. Period. I treat them transactionally. I use them for sex. I objectify them with little to no regard to how they feel and how their experience with me might affect them in the future. I always thought of myself as someone that is above the average player because I don't lie to women about our relationship status and I'm transparent about my lifestyle. Bullshit. I've led so many women on throughout my life, discarded others after promising future hangouts as a way to bypass their objections against one night stands and have emotionally hurt even women who I deeply cared for and loved with my behavior. I cannot fathom the level of trust issues, heartache and emotional pain I've caused in the women I've dated. I'm horrified by the thought of it. My recent problems with dating are a result of my inability to genuinely invest in a woman and risk potentially getting hurt or disappointed in the pursuit of the possible reward of a real connection. Instead I use game tactics as a distraction to what is actually called upon me to do: Be Vulnerable. It's really that simple. Stop overcomplicating the process. Here is basically what a pickup should look like from start to finish: 1. APPROACH IN A NATURAL AND CASUAL NON DIRECT WAY AND ENGAGE IN A LOWKEY BACK AND FORTH. 2. CONVEY BUSYNESS (IM OFF DOING SOMETHING INTERESTING, FUN, IMPORTANT, WHATEVER) AND START THROWING IN SOME FLIRTATIOUS REMARKS TO SPIKE THE INTERACTION, BUT KEEP IT CASUAL AND SUBTLE 3. TALK FOR A BIT, VIBE AND GET HER TO QUALIFY HERSELF A LITTLE AND BUILD SOME BASIC COMPLIANCE AND INVESTMENT 4. GET INSTAGRAM OR NUMBER UNDER THE FRAME OF POTENTIAL FUTURE PLANS WITHIN A COUPLE OF MINUTES OF INTERACTING. TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE THEN BOUNCE. 5. IMMEDIATELY START TEXTING BACK AND FORTH, FOR A MINIMUM OF 2-3 DAYS. KEEP IT FUN, COMPLIMENTARY, ENGAGING AND INTERESTING WHILE STILL CASUAL AND LOW EFFORT. 6. START SEEDING THE IDEA OF AN ACTIVITY THAT YOU MIGHT BE DOING THIS WEEKEND AND GAUGE HER INTEREST IN IT OR CASUALLY MENTION THINGS YOU COULD DO TOGETHER BUT DO NOT LINGER ON IT. IMMEDIATELY CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND SEE HOW SHE REACTS 7. DO NOT ASK HER OUT BUT ASK WHAT SHE'S UP TO THAT WEEKEND AND SEE IF SHE MAKES HERSELF AVAILABLE OR MAINTAINS BUSYNESS 8. IF SHE IS BUSY, KEEP CHATTING AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. IF SHE IS FREE CASUALLY INVITE 9. NEVER NEG OR OVERLY TEASE. RATHER, FOCUS ON KEEPING THE MOMENTUM GOING, MAINTAIN BUSYNESS AND SHARE VIDEOS AND PICS SHOWCASING AN INTERESTING LIFE AND SLOWLY START ASKING FOR THAT IN RETURN AS WELL TO BUILD MORE INVESTMENT. 10. AFTER THE FIRST HANGOUT, YOU CAN JUST START ASKING HER OUT MORE DIRECTLY AND BASICALLY CONTINUE DOING THAT AND ENJOYING EACH OTHER AS MORE INTIMACY BUILDS. Done. Simple. Straight forward. No manipulations, no push pulls, no BS. Just a man pursuing and truly investing in a woman genuinely without being needy or pushy. A woman who he actually really likes and finds deep value in pursuing. Not for the validation of it, but rather because his purpose in life demands it. Beyond that, I need to start investing in a social circle and building a more exciting life around me. I cannot be waiting for my life to start in the future. My life starts now. Fuck all this pickup shit, seriously. Just be a normal dude. Get a fucking life and things will naturally happen. I will be joining a kickboxing gym and/or salsa class, going to language cafes or classes, build my own biweekly meetup event, introduce my current friends to each other and make more of an effort to regularly see them and, yeah, go to bars and clubs but without the intention of pursuing women sexually, but just to socialize and make friends. This will fulfill me more than any sexual conquest ever will. I just know it. I also need to find a new job that nourishes me and that I'm proud to be in. My current job is becoming more and more draining as time goes on. I work long hours and I don't feel adequately compensated for the amount of energy and effort that it takes for me to run my day to day operations. So, yeah, a new job is in order. However, in the meantime, I have to talk to my manager and set some boundaries and come to an understanding with what I need in order to be able to work effectively and not burn out so frequently. Also, I want to be more honest in general. I am too attached to the concept of being charismatic. Fuck that. Using charismatic expression deliberately is a symptom of not feeling good enough as is and ashamed of your natural ways of being. If I'm sad, then I'm sad. If I'm angry, then I'm angry. No hiding behind a friendly smile and no passive-aggressive behaviour. I lean on honesty and realness. ------------Thoughts from the next morning--------------- Here's another little thing I would like to share. A big problem of mine is that I have a hard time fully embracing my emotional wounds when triggered. Whenever I'm high with the intent of unearthing my subconscious wounds, I immediately start edging or watching pornography to cope with the pain I feel inside. Sex has become a coping mechanism for me. I'm not quite sure if this pain in my chest is something that I can ever resolve or whether I must learn new and healthier ways to cope with it, but being able to sit with it feels like the right path forward. Yet, it is so hard to do. It would be very difficult to try and articulate what the wound says to me. What its message is. But perhaps I just haven't been brave enough to fully listen just yet. I will try me best to do that today. I will sit and meditate on it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- More insights to come

I've been on a journey to transcend my pickup artist conditioning, after being entrenched in it for nearly 10 years. I've spoken about this venture of mine in various posts in the past, but I've since realized that killing my pickup tendencies and beliefs is going to be a much harder dragon to slay than I anticipated. Therefore, I decided to take it more seriously and devote a good chunk of my time getting to the root cause of it all and unwiring the paradigm at its core. [Big thanks to @Emerald as well for giving me some advice on the matter in private.] That's what this series of posts is going to be about: Transcending Pick Up. ----- I got flaked on 5-6 times back to back this last week and a half, which has been extremely painful because I had very high interest in a few of those women. In fact, pickup has been difficult ever since I moved to my current city about a year ago. The women here are a lot more flakey and require more time investment over text than what I'm used to or comfortable with. This has been a blessing in disguise, though, because the turmotulous nature of the dating game here has really forced me to face myself. Anyway.. I was in pain yesterday, man. Had a shitty day at work, I got flaked on 3 times back to back and I was just frustrated. Before going home, I pass by the cannabis store and get myself some edibles. I'm getting high tonight and plan on swimming through the big pool of pain I feel, until I find the drain at the bottom. I only take a bite, though. These edibles are so strong, that when I last ate the whole thing, I awoke to Solipsism. They aint no joke, man. So, as you can imagine, that one bite was enough to inspire some insight. I open ChatGPT and instruct it to ask me back-to-back shadow work questions, each going deeper than the one before, with little fluff and empathetic mirroring. I want to go deep. Worked like a charm. What the line of questioning helped me to realize was that growing up I always felt insignificant. I used to get bullied by my classmates and even some of my own friends. I felt invisible to girls and my home life wasn't very pleasant, as my mom was working 12 hour days nearly 7 days a week to support my sisters and I, since my dad had abandoned us for another woman. The only thing that helped me feel significant in any way was my ability to draw very well. The recognition that my creative talents earned me, motivated me to cultivate that skill to a very high level, but it still wasn't enough to get the admiration of the girls I liked neither the respect of other men who i deemed to be "cool." And that's the deeper need that pickup fulfilled for me. Through pick up -- and personal development as a whole -- I became significant, different, special, one of a kind. I could attract beautiful women into my life and build sexual abundance like no other man I knew could and I would do it through the most unconventional path that most men would be afraid to undertake. I became significant to the women I would date, to the men within my social circle that bore witness to my sudden transformation and, finally, to myself as I finally became one of the *cool* guys in my eyes, finally. It was never about the sex, or the access, or the reputation. I just wanted to matter. I just wanted to be admired for something. Recognized by my peers and seen as important. I sat down with this insight for a few minutes. Then, I asked myself, how could I fulfill this need outside of pickup? The following answers came to mind: 1. Join or build a community of like minded individuals and find my own tribe through that. 2. Develop valuable skills or create something unique to me that will benefit the world at large. 3. Prioritize myself to myself. Build a relationship with myself that's founded under the premise of "I matter the most to me." Invest in me and do things that excite me and make me feel passionate. I immediately took steps. I am going to a kickboxing class today. I've always been interested in martial arts -- an interest rooted in the fact that I used to get bullied, I admit. Through this class, I will not only join a like minded community, but I will also be challenged in a new and exciting way and will develop a skill that could benefit the people that I love (knowing that I can protect them if shit ever goes down). Additionally, I will be creating my own Meetup.com event. One around the subject of mindfulness, creativity and vulnerability. I will not share my full concept here though Lastly, I am continuing my efforts to learn a new language I've been trying to learn for the longest time, starting next week. ------ BONUS INSIGHTS ------- 1. The steps I outlined above have always been of interest to me. The reason that I never went though with any of them to the max was because I was afraid of packing up my schedule and not being able to date as much. But considering how unfulfilling the game is these last few years, I find it crazy how much I resisted making the necessary lifestyle changes. It really reveals how deep the pulls of one's identity go, even when the identity no longer serves the individual positively. 2. I tend to interact with women from an egoic place rather than a genuine desire to connect and that is where all my fuck ups with dating stem from. When a man interacts with the world from a genuine intent to connect; he doesn't manipulate, he doesn't overpursue, he doesn't try to "get her to chase," or do any of the pickup tactics that we're taught. He just expresses himself (without needing to impress) and lets chemistry flourish naturally over time with no rush. I've picked up recently that whenever I have a genuine vibe going on with a woman and I try to use a pickup tactic on her, it immediately kills the vibe. At my level, I dont need these behaviours anymore. I am enough, I am attractive. All I really have to do is just show up, be myself and only pursue women who I have high genuine interest in and who I have the most chemistry with. From there, text them, build the vibe over text (no push pulls or stupid fucking techniques, just genuine fun convo) for a couple days, qualify her on things I like about her and then ask her out. Done. It's that simple. Yet pickup has overcomplicated this process for me and made me feel like I have to do more. Like I have to leave her on 'read' sometimes, or that I have to do x, y and z or whatever. Has that worked at some point in my life? Yes. But it is no longer applicable nor needed as the man I am now and my current relationship goals. And even when I've done those things successfully, the women have never been the type that I'd want to commit to long term, no matter how beautiful they might have been. Ultimately, a woman that chases a man who is distant, rejects her, makes her feel insecure or whatever, is not a quality woman. A quality girl knows her value so she will only go for men she has genuine chemistry with and who she feels reciprocative consistent effort from. I dont need to build attraction. I am attraction already. From there, its just about building rapport and connection. What this means for the future is that I need less leads but higher quality ones. Rather than collecting 10 numbers/instagrams per week, I should bring that number down to about 2-3 exceptionally high quality leads. That means, again, women that I'm truly highly attracted to, who I have genuine good chemistry and compatibility with and just invest in these women over other low quality leads. This will require a strong discernment from me and a resistance to a "lead acquisition" frame in which I just go out and seek as much abundance as I can rather than connection. But, now that I'm slowly making some changes in my life, I dont think that will be too challenging to maintain. More insights to come.

@fopylo Bro, listen to me closely. You're fucking killing it. Don't let anyone make you feel that you going out and putting yourself out there is wrong or "not meant for you." If I believed that rhetoric when I was 17 and completely clueless and insecure with women, I wouldn't be in the amazing position I am now. To go from unattractive (both internally and externally) to attractive as a man, is such a painful and rigorous process that requires a storng will and determination. Learning game has a very steep and painful learning curve, but once you're on the other side of it, it'll be all worth it. This is not a path meant for everybody because not everyone is willing to go through the fire to get exceptional results. But that's not you, so don't let the weak minded who wouldn't dare take this path deter you.

They are, but its rare. My best friend is very good looking and a complete natural with women. Never had issues attracting them in his life from a young age. He respects the fact that I learned game the way I did and we often do discuss the various PUA concepts and mechanics but to him it is all unconscious (him being at the 1% of good looks doesnt hurt either). He also has an extensive history of using psychedelics and other mind altering substances. Like, to a high degree. I've done some stuff too, but never to the level that he had and definitely not recreationally. Every time I would take a substance, I would learn something deeper about myself and I would always share that with him but he never shared any deeper insights with me in return despite all his experiences. One day, out of curiosity, I asked him if he ever even had a deep insight from a psychedelic or other substance. He sat there for a few seconds and said, "Honestly dude.. no." Blew my mind. Can extroverted naturals have deep insights? Yes. Is it the norm? Hell no. I've seen that consistently in my life. Not to say they're dumb. They're smart in different ways. Just not the way introverted types tend to be.

The more I watch John the less I believe he is any good at pickup, to be honest. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt because he did have some solid advice regarding dealing with rejection, assuming attraction, dating funnels, pulling and dealing with objections etc But then you watch how he interacts with people and he violates every rule regarding attractive subcommunications. He is very reactive and giggly in set, constantly qualifies himself, he is pushy, needy and very unkempt (at least in a few years ago). I know @Leo Gura and others - namely the youtuber Playing with Fire - say that he does have some solid game but I really cannot picture it based on what I've seen of him so far.

Shieeet, I wont deny this lol

I hear you, but keep in mind that this is in the context of us having sex. I wasnt talking about having babies with these women in normal conversation, just when dirty talking. Things like: "You love how daddy fucks you, huh? I bet you're craving to feel daddy's warm cum dripping out of you, don't you baby." "Yes daddy, I want it!" "You want to have daddy's babies don't you. Say it!" "I want your babies, daddy!! I do!!" "What a good little slut you are." Etc etc Obviously I wouldn't be out having coffee with them and then talking about our future and children and all that. Context matters here.

@Leo Gura is actually right on this and if you think about it biologically it makes sense. Sex is evolutionarily meant for the purpose of procreation. So, from a biological perspective, when a woman decides that she wants to have sex with you, its the result of her primal brain deciding that you are a strong man and that she should have your baby. In fact, you dont even need to cum inside her. Often times just TALKING about having babies during sex can get your woman super wet and excited at the idea and eventually get her super attached to you. Try it with caution though. When I first learned about this, I went fucking crazy with it and used to do it to almost every girl - just talking about babies not actually cumming in her. Very often those women would develop very deep feelings for me and would result in us separating because now they were not happy with the fwb arrangement. But, if you're in a relationship with a woman (or want to be in one with that particular woman) then go crazy with it.