_Archangel_

@Nivsch The second itfifada lasted atleast 5 years, 2002 was just a part of it. And the total result is always more civilians casualties then combatants. I never said Israel should sit and wait to be attacked. The problem is that we have arrived to this situation mostly because of what i wrote above. Whenever the most powerful in the reagion make it habitual to kill civillian like rain in the hope of chopping down some terrorists, something has gone wrong. I don't have a solution, i just know bombing a whole territory over and over has proved to be ineffective. The point is, Isreael never had the nuanced, sophisticated and compassionate level of strategical thinking that was needed to solve the contentions with its problematic neighborhood. And this is reflected in poeple like you, who use "they can't do anyting else" as an excuse for all that it's happening, without understanding that errors were made and errors and actions birthed from those errors must be condamned, as mush as any terrorist attacks must be condamned. Israel current actions will backfire, like it always had happened, bringing forth an endless cycle of suffering for everyone, until a more advanced leadership will take power.

@Nivsch Doesnt matter the aim. The premise is always to defend Israel, the result is brutality. And brutality isn't surgical. Yes and it is shameful. Israel answer? they "cut the grass". Israel problem has always been its comprehensible belligerant bias and its inability to solve problems in any way other than bombings and police abuse of force. --------- @Danioover9000 what? what do you mean?

@Danioover9000 = The suffering of palestinians and Israelis will continue for a rather long bit i'm afraid

@Nivsch Second intifada / 2014 operation - are this a better example? yes, let's call it a "loose" occupation Killing thousend's of civilians is always despicable, no metter if offensive or difensive. Funnily enough, the scope of the casualites of the recent are certainly not symmetrical, but that's because the Israel Military is completely out-doing Hamas in terms of devastation.

@Nivsch intelligent and surgical operations like Sabra and Shatila? Or the occupation of the west bank territories? You would like to paint Israel as the country that unfortunately isn't. I'm glad you seem to concede that the ongoing response hasn't been surgical. Do you realise that your line of thinking can be applied to justify hamas aswell?

@Breakingthewall This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that Israel's response is autoritarian regime-level.

@Breakingthewall Yes, war is war but war is also justified with something called propaganda. This is utter BS. Whenever a vastly superior military decide to basically destroy a community there is always atleast 1 other way they are deciding to ignore. The fact that they were brutally attacked doesn't suspend Israel from their moral obligations, and their answer was "vengeance". That's fine, but then they souldn't be surprised when the whole world look at them in scorn. Call it war. But it is simply isn't true there isn't any other way the could tackle this. And even if there weren't, they would be be responsable, given how they handled the situation through the years. Don't spread this "there is no other way" BS.

@bobby_2021 I meant Us as "us", we, the collective. Not America. As i wrote earlier, the reason for the magnitude of the Palestinian conflict are to be found in the split and support to either one of the two sides involved. Anti-semitism is a factor, but most decent poeple criticise Israel based on their handling of the situation in Gaza and in the West Bank. Their operation and intentions are highly criticizable, independently of Ethnicity and Religion. And this is a position shared by many moderate Jewes and Israeli citizens.

@Vrubel Yes, but notice how what you just wrote can describe what part of the ruling class in Israel think of Paestinians. Don't portray Israelis as harmless lambs who have the whole world against them for no reason. As i wrote above, reasons are evident for disliking israel operations.

@Bobby_2021 Just explained to you. The Israel-Palestine debate is more wide-spread in the west because the media and the public is divided. Division create discussion. Put in the mix Antisemitism and Islamophobia and you have a bomb. We are so invested in it because, in a sense, this conflict talks about Us, westerners, and our internal political and social conflics. If you dig, you're going to find many condamnations of Saudi Arabia, but it just doesn't add up because public opinion generally agrees they're bad. Never said nor implied. Nevertheless, i think it was to be expected judging how they've been handling the sitation down there through the years. ---------- @Vrubel Antismitism is surely a thing in the west and not only. Urban myths and strange theories have contributed to the discrimination of Jews and Israel over the years for sure. But you also have to consider that poeple might be mad at Israel because they don't find it right to bomb houses and hospitals just because potential terrosist might be down in some tunnel. Jew have been often ostracized and hated but this shouldn't morph into a the victim card that you play whenever you are accused of something. I've always witnessed plenty of critiques regarding these topics. That the Saudis do not seek destabilization si arguable. Every time you participate, even indirecticly, to a war you are destabilizing the area.

@Bobby_2021 The logic is that usually Pro Pal. are pro Yemen aswell. The difference is that Palestine is a more heated topic in the West cause of the Israel support crushing with the support for Palestinians. Everyone hate Saudi Arabia. Easy.

@QandC This is common. What is basically happening is that you are disingaging/unhooking from worldly rules, morals, obligation, authority. Imagine a child that is taken away from his mom while he's still in the process of sucking from her breast What is going to happen is that you will naturally start to become you own authority. In other words: when you realize life is meaningless, it's ultimately Good because you can start to create your own meaning. My advice is: when you are ready, cut the stuff you feel you are annoyed by, keep the things you genuinely like to do. Because you will find that even in this ocean of nothingness there are some things you naturally gravitate towards. It's desires that made you incarnate, identify tham and fulfill them. That's the game. Change your life according to your inclinations. So it does bother you. There is always going to some deeeeeeeep programming that serves the purpose of not making you act like a madman. Because of survival, you're going to see that it's easy to act out of common sense. There is simply stuff you cannot avoid doing unless you want to harm your body-mind. Which is not something you want if you live anywhere there are scraps social constructs (ex. You follow the queue at the supermarket, exacly as you did before).

@r0ckyreed Which again, is not the same as telling other poeple to do so.

@r0ckyreed Leo never taught to live as if death is imaginary, quite the opposite infact. This is a fantasy of yours. Don't confuse investigation of Truth with a prescription on how to behave in day-to-day life. Conventional life is lived by conventional rules. Even if death is imaginary, that doesn't mean you should go jump from a building. No one is denying that "death is something that is inside the Universe". This is true, in relative terms. When Leo says Death doesn't exist, he's not negating the concept. He's saying you are imagining the concept, And there is no real concrete reality where this process is gripped upon. Hope this clear it up.

@r0ckyreed Is exacly because you don't distinguish between Abs. and Rel. that you don't comprend the teaching. To say that " Stallone wil die" is true in the relative day-to-day domain, but it false in the absolute domain cause Stallone doesn't have inherent existence, all he is is a character in this infinite stream of existence. You are imagining his consistency. You are imagining your consistency. ------- It's years now that i'vs seen you coming up with this topics, and the leit-motif is always this misunderstanding. Nothing has inherent existence, no separation. no will of its own. Every object that appears in your experience is perpetually sustained by a process of immagination. Including the concept of death.