Knowing what happens after death often takes serious study (unless you have had an nde).
We don't die radio
NDE radio with lee witting
Hi. Im wondering if Leo (or anyone else with insights) has some new takes on the process that occurs after death of the physical body. I am aware of the truth of non-duality. I have had many phychedelic trips, including ego deaths. So there is no doubt in my mind that the final "destination" is that complete lack of self/merge with everything/nirvana/god.
When Ive seen Leos videos about the matter I get the feeling that he implies that we will all automatically become infinity when our physical human-selves dies, no matter how spiritually developed we have become during our lifetime (might be me that misunderstood him, thats why I want a clarification).
I personally have a hard time buying this (dont get me wrong, I do believe we will all reach that point in the "end" guaranteed, but that could mean an infinity of lifetimes). What I dont believe is that any human ego that dies will go there after each lifetime, no matter how little developed he/she is. I dont think for example a person who has completely negligated/been unaware of spirituality during that individuals lifetime will be able to merge with the infinite when the physical body dies. Perhaps get a flash glimpse of it before getting overwhelmed and popping out as some limited self again that matches his/her development of what the individual can comprehend as some sort of "reality" for the time being.
Just like the fact that you can have peak experiences of god when breaking through on psychedelics but at the same time its pretty much unheard of, or atleast extremely rare, that someone manages to maintain what the psychedelic has given you a taste of by yourself when it has faded (even people who use psychedelics like 5meo or similar very frequently with enlightment as goal. To do this you must go through other more challenging practices in order to increase your baseline consciousness aswell as strenghten your ability to remain in those high stages for longer periods (and according to many yogis this process can take many lifetimes of practice. This is not something an everyday person achieve automatically by just doing something so basic that literally everyone can and will do it; meaning killing your physical body.
Like a yogi (or munk, cant remember) once answered when asked the question of if it is possible to reach enlightened states using psychedelics: Yes it is possible! But you cannot maintain it, you don't have the strenght!
Another factor is that the illusion of our human selves goes deeper than just the physical body. Meaning that we supposedly have a Physical Body, an Etheric Body, an Astral Body, a Mental Body a Spiritual Body and a Cosmic Body.
Personally I cant deny or confirm the existance of all those I mentioned there or how correct the terms they have been given there are. But I do have personal experience of atleast the so called astral body and have had since I was a kid. Before I had any concepts of what spirituality, enlightment etc even was I had spontaneous astral projections occuring maybe once a month or so. Many say that astral projection is the same thing as lucid dreaming (and perhaps in a way it is) but whats different for me is that when you astral project while awake you experience the actually separation of you astral body from your physical one. This is accompanied by intense vibrations through your spine and whole body (can even be very painful like getting powerful electric shocks), if you manage to relax when this happens you will most often simply glide out of your physical body (during this whole event you are completely alert and awake) and end up in the astral version of the very same room you were previously sleeping in. Again, the first years of this happening to me as a kid I had no idea what was going on, so this was not something I had any concept of in my head and thereby manifested it. It just happened, and there I was on the astral version of my house and neighborhood where I could fly around etc. Its very dreamlike the whole sensation but at the same time very much clearer and more consistent. Its also populated by entities (often catlike beings for some reason). Sometimes these experiences were beautiful and sometimes quite terrifying since some of the entities populating the astral plane seems aggressive.
Not until years later as a teen when I got my hands on some book about Indian mysticism I actually found out this was a real thing being practiced by people for thousands of years. This blew my mind back then btw since I grew up in a secular home with parents who didnt know anything about spirituality (my grandmother had similar experiences tho she told me). Anyways got sidetracked on AP there.
My point is that since these other "bodies" actually do "exist" (as imagination ultimately sure, but no less than the imagination of our physical bodies) and make up our selves how do we know that these dies just because our physical body dies? From what Ive heard from yogis and others these bodies actually persist longer, especially if we have stored up "energy" left. All this is pointing against the fact that we would just instantly merge with god after our physical death. Still Ive heard almost nothing from Leo about these things. Dont get me wrong, I find great value in Leos work and Im fully onboard with his conclusions on the ultimate truth etc. And I know psychedelics has an amazing power to take you to these very high states. But at the same time I get the feeling that there is alot of stuff inbetween being overlooked here, things that may be important.
And yet again, I know that all this ultimately is imagination like everything else but that doesn't mean we can just ignore it and make it go away, just like we cant imagine away our imaginary walls in our room. These experiences, different astral planes etc seem to be very consistent for everyone who experiences them, just like this reality but with slightly less physical rules. Gods imagined reality definitely has alot of layers to it and I dont think we can just overlook them thinking we got a free-ticket to Nirvana if we choke on our breakfast tomorrow ;)...
I mean if everyone is heading to the ultimate after death why would the yogi in Tibet spend his whole life in a hard cave trying to reach enlightment until he finally does it at lets say age 95 if he was going there anyways very soon automatically?
Why not listen to people who talk about their past lives?
21:55 Jan Esmann talks about the time he discovered his past lives. Incredible stuff -- I recommend watching the entire interview. He has some really crazy stories. Absolutely shatters the materialist paradigm.
We’re baking pixels, while photons bake we; there must be an I, light can’t just be screen.
Bloodless the eyes, prisms of scenes; yet light to & fro, can not be of dream.
Relative echoes, a you & a me; eternally special, we both can not be.
Now is always moving. Impermanence 101.
You are using your mind to reduce the flow of consciousness into discrete segments, which do not actually exist. This is a reductionist approach and it will never pan out in the end. The flow of consciousness cannot be reduced to some finite atomic parts.
One time on a microdose of LSD, I remember looking at a car on the road that was pulling in to a parking lot and observing the wheels turning. I realized that I'm not actually observing an object called a wheel that is rotating at a certain speed. I'm instead observing a certain configuration of reality, i.e. the appearance of a moving wheel. The idea that the wheel is somehow a separate thing that is moving relative to the rest of the car is a silly notion once you tap into the interconnectedness of reality. The apparently moving wheel is simply a part of reality that is appearing as itself.
I was observing conscioussness, it was a situation that conscioussness observed . And I couldn't realise how movement which is an illusion (cause there is only change of static moments which equals movement) could seem so real. Conscioussness definitely make its lower self surprised and feeling paradox.
I see movement and although it's an illusion it felt like real to the extent I was shocked with it like it was paradox.
Either this or movement actually exists and I am missing something but if it does exist I can't comprehend how.
Of course movement exist in the sense that change is what exists, but every moment , every now, is a static moment. At least that's how I conceptualised it and then tried to understand it by observation(direct experience?) and didn't make sense at all. Mind confused...
god is really awseome at making you believe in illusions
so what do you think about movement and all these stuff? Any answer that could make this make sense?
-This episode is 🤯 whoa 🤯. It feels like a gypsy curse has been lifted from my psyche.
-The following is the full version of the summary. It’s looong. It has all the examples. The condensed version has about half of them and fewer explanations. External links were selected by me, for better or worse .
481. Summary: How Your Mind Interprets Reality
“There are no facts, only interpretations." —Frederick Nietzsche
-The condensed version of this summary can be found here in the Summaries thread.
-Interpretation is core to how you make sense of the world. It’s going to take you a good ten years to fathom the significance of that. This is a foundational epistemic episode.
-Every situation has multiple interpretations. People fall into the trap of treating situations as though there are only one or two interpretations.
-Seeing Only One Interpretation. The worst case scenario. If you only have one interpretation it becomes your reality. It’s absolute truth. It’s not even an interpretation; it's taken as fact. This is what most people are doing.
-Seeing Two Interpretations. You get a taste that interpretation is going on, that the mind is not just receiving “raw facts.” But, now you get caught up in this tug of war, duality, tribalism, partisanship. You see reality in a black and white way.
This is all part of a larger theme of Self-Deception.
-You have to think very deeply about anything you call a fact. Your mind doesn’t question “facts” so they become your reality. You think a “fact” is something objective that exists independent of you, but they’re actually constructed by your interpretations.
It’s important to notice that what most people call facts are actually interpretations. By people I mean you.
Facts alone have no value and no meaning. They don’t tell you what's worthwhile or what you should do. That requires interpretation. So, the set of facts you choose to focus on is highly biased. You cherry-pick facts to bolster your sense of reality, to confirm your worldview and to advance your survival.
The tricky thing is there's always more than one way to make sense of facts, but people like to act like there’s only one way or “the right way.” Epistemic blunders mostly lie in how you interpret facts and which facts you focus on, not in the facts themselves.
-This is an important concept. Going meta means to step outside the frame of a thing and observe it. To go one level higher in abstraction. (clip: Going Meta (8 min). ep: What it Means to Go Meta). eg: Deadpool embodies going meta. He’s the only superhero who knows he’s in a superhero movie (clip comes from an R rated movie).
-Don’t get lost in the content of these examples. The examples are here to make the concepts concrete. (ep: Content vs Structure) The danger here is that you’ll focus on which of these interpretations is the “correct one,” but that's missing the point. Leo’s trying to communicate something meta to you.
Be aware if you’re getting stuck in the content of the interpretations and failing to go meta. The larger, meta point with these examples is that there are multiple interpretations. The need to have one right and the rest wrong is part of the problem. See the structure, stay meta.
Why did the United States invade Iraq?
1st POV: to defend against terrorism.
2nd POV: because of greedy executives running giant military companies and defense contractors and oil companies for whom this war was beneficial.
3rd POV: because Dick Cheney was a war criminal and George W Bush was an idiot who was easy to manipulate.
4th POV: it was a collective psychic backlash to 911, a fear response.
5th POV: there were weapons of mass destruction or at least that's what people believed at the time.
-That’s five very different interpretations. In politics, most people pick one interpretation and act as if it represents the situation in it entirety. If someone believes that Dick Cheney is a war criminal and George W Bush is an idiot they don't see it as an interpretation, but as reality. They don't see deeper levels of interpretation, like with the 4th and 5th options.
There are different levels of quality to interpretations. They're not all equal. Some of them are very simplistic, some profound, some even go to a spiritual degree of understanding. How you interpret the world powerfully affects how you feel, notice that.
eg: The idea of “a collective psychic backlash to 911” is a very powerful interpretation. Instead of looking at the US government as a group of evil people, you see the situation from a more compassionate, understanding and conscious place. Mistakes were made because of fear and fear is such a powerful emotion, especially at a collective level. You can empathize because you know what it’s like to act out of blinding fear.
Fear tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you fear terrorism, invading the Middle East with a poorly thought out war leads to a destabilization of the region that creates more terrorism.
-With the 2nd POV, if you believe the US invasion was because of some greedy executives who wanted contracts, that’s a whole way of seeing the world. It's an adversarial “they’re evil and corrupt and not good like us normal people. They're manipulating us, those damn globalists…” That way of looking at the world leads to certain consequences.
It leads to you feeling and acting a certain way. If you think the world is run by a cabals of globalists does that make you feel empowered or like a victim? Is that motivating you to be constructive, creative, and follow your life purpose? Or does it make you feel you're being exploited and manipulated? Ultimately you don’t care about facts. You care about how you feel.
-Start to see the whole situation in a multi-perspective, multi-faceted way with multiple interpretations, seeing that each interpretation captures some element of the situation, but not the total thing.
-Even more importantly, you want to see how your mind is constructing these interpretations. Become aware of which interpretations you're missing. There are different qualities of interpretation. Saying some group of people does evil because they're monsters or idiots is one of the lowest quality kinds of interpretations.
-Even though there are low quality and high quality interpretations, we shouldn’t squeeze out all the lower quality povs. Every interpretation contains some sort of partial truth even though it might be very twisted and distorted.
Also, if many people are suffering from low quality misinterpretations, you need to understand that pov to address it effectively. Their opinions might not be accurate, but they could be valid. (eg: Just because there are a lot of Q-Anon people doesn’t mean their ideas are true. However, the rise of so many angry people is important to know about and understand.) Ideally, you want a compound perspective of interconnected and intersecting interpretations.
Religion exists because…
a) it's a holdover from superstitious ancestors who weren't scientifically rigorous.
b) it’s a tool to control the masses.
c) it’s not scientifically or literally true, but these myths contain deep psychological lessons without which you can go astray in life.
d) it points to absolute truth which is incommunicable because it's infinite and therefore it can never be articulated in a literal scientific sense.
-Do you see how different these interpretations are? Notice the last two are more nuanced than just saying “all religion is bullshit.” You’re going to react to religion and religious people differently depending on which pov you believe.
-Remember, we’re not interested in which interpretation is “right.” We’re interested in the meta point of seeing how many different ways there are to interpret what religion could be.
a) the highest religion and truth.
b) evil barbaric and violent.
c) used in both constructive and destructive ways. How it’s used depends on how it’s read and who cherry picks which parts.
d) contains profound truths that are more advanced than science. However, its truths are corrupted by being taken too literally. It also uses many archaic cultural customs from fifteen thousand years ago.
-a) is a devout Muslim interpretation. This perspective probably thinks it’s “reality” instead of just a perspective.
-b) many Conservatives and Christians in the US feel this way. They’re fearful and uneducated about Islam. Also notice they don't hold that as an interpretation, but as reality.
-Notice that c) & d) are more nuanced perspectives.
Donald Trump is…
a) is a true patriot, a secret genius. A secret systems thinker who acts buffoonish to subvert the elite globalist media.
b) an opportunistic grifter and con artist.
c) actually God acting out of the highest good and love from his point of view. All his actions are the seeking of love.
-Notice how radically different each perspective is. How you frame Trump and how you behave politically depends on which of these interpretations you take.
a) drugs, which are bad and dangerous.
b) just creating hallucinations in the brain. If you experience some mystical truths they don’t mean anything.
c) great for expanding consciousness and seeing higher truths.
d) an immature shortcut. Fake spirituality because it’s not permanent.
e) the future of spiritual work. They haven't caught on because they've been so stigmatized.
-Notice how some of these interpretations will exclude you from exploring psychedelics. That's how powerful interpretation can be. Also contentious issues often cause people to get close-minded and stuck in one interpretation.
a) a cult.
b) not a cult, but self-deceived and teaches misinformation.
d) offers some advanced perspectives and insights about the nature of reality, but is still partial. It's not a complete picture.
e) seems like a cult because it’s teaching advanced things that most of mankind finds threatening. Therefore the most convenient thing for the ego-mind to do is just to call it a cult.
f) it’s a communication from God.
g) it’s you teaching your own self how to awaken. It’s also the universe teaching itself how to awaken.
Quine’s Gavagai Example
-Imagine an American explorer finds a remote tribe that has never made contact with the outside world. He tries to learn the tribe’s language. No prob, right? Actually, Quine says this problem is much deeper than it seems. How would this actually play out?
Let’s say you’re sitting with a tribesman around the campfire and then a rabbit runs across the field.
The tribesman says, “gavagai gavagai” and points at it. What does the tribesman mean? What is “gavagai”?
a) a furry, living animal with long ears.
b) the name of this particular bunny who is the tribe pet.
c) God manifesting itself as the rabbit.
d) a hallucination of a rabbit, which means the psychedelics at the campfire are working.
e) a rabbit’s foot, which the rabbit’s using to wave hello, awwww….
f) a rabbit’s foot, which the tribe thinks is the most delicious part 😋.
g) a safe, timid brown bunny, as opposed to those demonic white bunnies, thank goodness.
-If you think, “Leo, this is a silly problem. What’s the difference between a furry living animal with long ears, and God manifesting itself as a rabbit? That's just some fluffy, mystical superstition…”
Quine’s point here was very deep. Your notion of rabbit will be defined by your entire sense of reality. Is it valuable? Is it good or bad? Is it made of atoms or consciousness? There is a significant difference between seeing that rabbit as food, as a biological creature, or as consciousness.
eg: Buffalo Wasn’t Just Food (2min) Native American tribes view Buffalo differently than…many people today view cute buffalo at the zoo…or bison at the butcher shop.
Your notion of anything is metaphysically and epistemically loaded. You’re not conscious of those frameworks, but they shape how you relate to that rabbit. So, your mind's way of holding the concept of “rabbit” is not the same as the tribesman’s or Leo’s or Alice in Wonderland’s or anyone else’s.
-The gavagai example shows that most situations in life are deeply ambiguous. Quine’s point is that we will never fully resolve this problem within language. We're basically guaranteed to have different ways of interpreting that rabbit because of the underdetermination problem.
eg: an episode of Star Trek:TNG demonstrates this: Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra (1 to 6 mins)
The Underdetermination Problem
-The Underdetermination problem says: evidence available to us, at a given time, may be insufficient to determine what beliefs we should hold in response to it. The facts of the situation alone are underdetermined because our way of interpreting and seeing the facts go way beyond merely what is there in the facts.
-There’s a problem within science, philosophy and the philosophy of science known as the Underdetermination problem. That’s what we're facing here.
“Underdetermination is a thesis explaining that for any scientifically based theory there will always be at least one rival theory that is also supported by the evidence given, and that that theory can also be logically maintained in the face of any new evidence.
Quine’s Non-uniqueness thesis: For any theory, T, and any given body of evidence supporting T, there is at least one rival (i.e., contrary) to T that is as well supported as T. This is a result of our inability to completely understand or gain access to the whole set of empirical evidence for any one particular situation or system, and therefore our acceptance that new evidence could be made available at any time. This thesis maintains that since there is no method for selecting between our two (or more) valid solutions, the validity of our conclusion is always in question.” —Colin Merna
“Under determination refers to (Willard Van Orman) Quine's assessment that evidence alone does not dictate the choice of a scientific theory, as different theories —observationally equivalent— may be able to explain the same facts.” —Wikipedia
-We can also look at the same “facts” and perceive different things because of biology.
eg: Yanny or Laurel. The White and Gold or Black and Blue dress pic.
Science is Subjective
-The mistake here is to think the tribesman is being "superstitious and unscientific.” Quine's point is that there is no such thing as scientific, because how you define “scientific” is part of the problem. (ep: What is the Nature of Science)
Science is full of interpretation. It’s not an objective, singular thing. Can you use science to find the right interpretation of what science is? That’s like a heart surgeon performing surgery on himself. This is a meta-scientific problem. Many atheists and materialists don't grasp the depth of the epistemic problem here. Stop naively mistaking the constructions of your mind as reality itself.
Science doesn’t just discover the facts of reality. For each piece of data you gather you can come up with multiple alternative theories. You can never have one theory that perfectly matches all the facts because every theory is underdetermined. So this creates a an open-ended, infinite problem for science.
eg: Seven of Nine uses the same facts to accuse Cpt. Janeway and Chakotay of crimes that contradict each other.
There are always hundreds of theories that could fit the existing set of data. (This doesn’t even include invalidated theories that comfort your ego.)
Just a Word Game?
-“But Leo, isn’t this just a word game? There's no difference between seeing a rabbit through a materialist lens versus an idealist lens.” That's wrong. There are ways to decide between them, but not at your current level of consciousness and not using materialist methods.
An idealist will consider something like direct experience of absolute truth as possible. The materialist is shut off to this because it doesn’t validate his worldview. So it’s not just a “word game.” Those words carry a lot of unquestioned baggage.
-The lesson here is that most situations in life are deeply ambiguous. So, increase your capacity for handling ambiguity and a variety of perspectives. Profound self-deceptions can be life-threatening. It's not just empty philosophy. We could destroy civilization if we don't get this right.
Your mind wants reality to be one particular way that serves your survival. The mind abhors a vacuum because it’s threatening. Leaving things open-ended is a lot of work for the mind.
It's stressful. It's overwhelming. It can make you question your sanity 🥺. “Is the bunny real or not? Are other people real? Are you real, Leo?” You might reach that point in your investigations and that's the whole point.
-With all these examples keep asking yourself: how would you know the difference between these interpretations? Notice how many different povs fit the same “facts.”
Also, Leo’s not trying to justify any action here, so don’t get lost in the content of the interpretations. Focus on the larger, meta point: seeing each situation from multiple perspectives. These examples show how ubiquitous the problem of interpretation is and how many real world implications there are. (49:20)
Situations & Multiple Interpretations
What is God?
a) God is a fiction created by irrational people who don’t or historically didn’t know about evolution.
b) God is a state of higher consciousness.
What is Mysticism?
a) Mystics are wishful-thinking, loose-minded fools who just don't want to face death.
b) Mystics have figured out how to access higher dimensions of reality.
-When you’re presented with these different interpretations, seriously consider this one as being possible and then seriously consider this other one as being possible. If you can do that it will open your mind (ep: How Openmindedness Works). None of this work works if you don't understand radical open-mindedness.
b) a set of mental constructions that help people manipulate reality for survival.
-How would you decide the difference between the two? After all, if what you care about is survival and nothing else, you could easily conflate survival with truth, which of course you do.
Senator _____ won't vote for gun reform because…?
a) he’s corrupted by the NRA gun lobby who bribed him.
b) he believes gun rights are important and guaranteed by the constitution.
-A lot of liberals and progressives make this mistake. They accuse certain senators or politicians of not supporting their policies because they've been corrupted, bribed or influenced. That’s definitely true in many situations, but that's not the only reason. Progressives overlook how many senators and politicians genuinely believe the Conservative worldview. Many Conservatives grew up with the gun culture. The NRA wouldn’t be so popular if a significant number of people didn’t love guns.
-If you want to be a good progressive you should care about getting this right. There’s so much partisan polarization because each side strawman’s the other instead of stepping outside their own interpretation to truly understand a different pov. That's the meta problem.
Also, our financial interests are always deeply entangled with our worldview, our metaphysics, our values, our epistemology. There’s never a clean division of these two things. (Which is why it’s important to get money out of politics.) Money is the distillation of survival. Your world view is your world view because it helps you to survive. (ep: Survival I, Survival II)
Bill Gates is trying to…?
a) control the population and get rich via vaccines.
b) help humanity in the best way he knows how, but those ideas aren’t good.
c) help humanity using good ideas, but his ideas aren't perfect because of limited knowledge and the complexity of humanity’s problems.
-Truly put yourself in Bill’s situation. What’s the best way to help humanity if you had billions of dollars? It's hard to help everyone in a way they agree with. Everyone has different ideas of what kind of help they need or want. The help you need is probably different from the help someone in Africa or Norway might need.
Person x is…?
b) understands something you don’t.
-It’s easy to demonize someone who understands something that’s not popular in mainstream culture. Then again, there are some people who are truly insane.
So how do you distinguish these two things? You have to deeply study epistemology and do contemplation for years, decades. If you don’t do the research you won’t figure it out. (1:00:00)
b) trying to do good, but because his worldview and consciousness was so low he ended up doing a lot of bad.
Person X is…?
b) doing things for a greater good, using her higher vision that you are too narrow-minded to see.
-Mystics, sages and saints operate on such a high playing field that it’s easier for mainstream society to demonize them than understand them. Some of the wisest, most conscious geniuses were put to death, jailed, tortured or crucified. (Christ, Socrates, Gandhi, Joan of Arc, Martin Luther King Jr, Giordano Bruno, and so forth.)
a) just a product of the brain.
b) imagining everything, including the brain.
-Don’t just believe it. Open your mind to that possibility of it. Can you see the massive repercussions if it’s true?
Someone who criticizes science…
a) is unscientific and likely a religious nutcase.
b) might be religious, but is definitely deluded and attacking from below because science is truth.
c) could be criticizing science from above in a meta-scientific way that’s more epistemically rigorous than science itself.
-Science often refuses to do epistemology and metaphysics. They’re so attached to science they don't think there's anything above it. (The pre/trans fallacy by Ken Wilber) However, there are things in reality which are meta-scientific, which science cannot understand or access.
People who talk about God…
a) are dumb, superstitious ideologues.
b) could have had direct experiences of God that are more genuine than science.
-That’s a radically different interpretation because most materialistic and atheistic people are not open to the possibility of having a direct experience of God. To them, all experiences of God are just hallucinations in the brain. So they are forever cut off from truly mystical experiences unless they open their mind.
A lack of proof for God means…
a) that God doesn't exist.
b) God is a type of thing which cannot be proven because God exists prior to proof.
The earth is…
a) moving around the sun.
b) the entire universe is moving around the earth
-That sure flips the situation on its head doesn't it?
b) don’t exist because this is all a dream, like the people in my dreams at night.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Notice how many options there could be. Really try them all on. Stay meta.
a) a mammalian emotion produced by the brain with no metaphysical significance.
b) a core metaphysical aspect of universal mind and consciousness.
a) solid proof that God doesn’t exist.
b) the process by which God creates.
a) is racist because he did so and so.
b) is not racist, but his actions appear that way because he's acting under extreme pressure.
c) could be racist. Although the entire police system is affected by culture and both explicit and implicit racism, and being a cop is difficult in ways that cannot be appreciated by people who aren’t cops.
The Buddha didn't talk about love…
a) so love can't be the truth because the Buddha taught the truth.
b) because he realized that love is truth, and what he called truth was actually love.
c) because the Buddha's nirvana is actually metaphysical, existential love. Not just emptiness.
Obama's drone strikes…
a) were evil war crimes.
b) saved ground troops from going in, thus saving many American soldiers.
c) were ugly but necessary. They killed 90 civilians but also killed 10 hard core terrorists who were planning to kill 1000 American civilians.
d) were still evil because 1000 hypothetical Americans don’t outweigh 90 Somalis and Yemenis.
e) well, they do if you’re the American President.
-Leo’s not trying to justify drone strikes. The meta point is to try on each perspective and appreciate the complexity of the situation. (Btw, numbers in the example were made up to illustrate a point)
The calculus is very complicated and so hairy that most people at the Pentagon probably don’t even know the answers definitively. Most people take this simplistic attitude that drone strikes were evil war crimes. You're not considering the greater evil of sending cruise missiles or even a nuclear weapon. How many civilians are acceptable to kill with drone strikes in order to prevent destabilizing the region, or even nuclear war?
-This also shows the Underdetermination theory at play. These are realities you would actually face if you were the leader of any major nation. How do you weigh those variables, especially when the stakes are so high? This shows the importance of having a variety of nuanced interpretations rather than black or white thinking. We're dealing with uncertainty and incomplete information and yet we have to take action.
Good leadership is not about knowing everything perfectly. It’s about having principles and integrity and taking decisive action in the face of great ambiguity and turmoil. Leo’s not justifying Obama’s actions, just pointing out there are no easy or good choices. They’re often the lesser of two evils.
Absolute truth is…
a) impossible to access even if it exists.
b) possible to access. You simply haven’t done enough work to access it.
-If you haven’t done the work it’s easy to confuse your personal laziness with something being impossible.
When Leo says absolute truth exists and he’s accessed it personally he’s…
a) being arrogant, narcissistic and egotistical.
c) telling the truth.
a) silly ancient superstition.
b) absolutely real. Some people are born with supernatural abilities that have been demonized by mainstream society because it's threatening.
a) have a mental disorder, like the bumper sticker says.
b) are more conscious than you.
-Whenever you think you're more conscious than someone else, always consider that they're more conscious than you. Maybe you're just projecting your unconsciousness onto them?
b) more prone to fear, survival and xenophobia than Progressives because of their neurology.
Leo said that ⬆️ because he wants to…
a) whitewash racists.
b) provide a more nuanced interpretation that could be true.
a) exploits workers.
b) is not yet sustainable in an ethical way because humans aren't selfless and conscious enough to not exploit each other.
-Do you see how different a) is from b) It changes your whole orientation towards capitalism.
Leo said that ⬆️ because he…
a) is a capitalist shill.
b) believes humanity isn’t conscious enough to sustain a higher, more humane system.
Because animals suffer…
a) I must not eat animals.
b) it has no relevance to what I eat.
-How would you know the difference? Remember, Leo’s not trying to justify any action here. He’s just trying to get you to see the meta in the situation.
-The following are very common views within the pickup community:
a) gold diggers who only want Chads with money.
b) attracted to your money because you have nothing else to offer them but money.
c) not attracted to you because your personality sucks and you’re too lazy to develop yourself.
d) not attracted to you and aren’t even attracted to your money because you have none.
e) attracted to qualities you could develop within yourself that have nothing to do with money, but you can’t see that.
b) called cheaters by PUAs because they’re projecting their own lack of integrity onto women. They expect women to cheat because PUAs are themselves cheaters.
a) selfish for not giving me sex
b) not selfish. You are selfish because you think women owe you sex and blame them because they have free will.
Life has no meaning so I…
a) should kill myself because meaninglessness sucks.
b) could construct whatever meaning I want. This paradoxically gives life the deepest meaning possible.
c) I am free from death because if life has no meaning, death has no meaning.
a) bad and depressing.
b) profoundly beautiful, you’re too busy ranting and denying solipsism to see it.
God’s son is…
a) Jesus, and only Jesus.
b) everyone. We are all the son (and sum) of God.
Those who reject Christianity are…
a) working for the devil.
b) rejecting Christianity because it was co-opted thousands of years ago and corrupted so that now Christianity is literally devilry.
-How would you know the difference? Remember, don’t get lost in the content of the interpretations. Notice how there are multiple ways of looking at a situation.
To be happy I need…
a) lots of money
b) to find a new mode for happiness
-Think about how this changes your entire approach to life. Needing lots of money (or success, or babes, or validation) to be happy is not a fact, but an interpretation that you could change. It’s a lot easier to change interpretations than facts. That would be the wiser course.
Life sucks because…
a) life is unfair.
b) because you haven't been living by the right principles.
c) life actually is fair. It’s fair to those who follow the principles. There's natural consequences and suffering which is what you're experiencing and then you call that unfair.
-Maybe life sucking is just a consequence of following the wrong principles. It’s like when an idiot hits his toe with a hammer and then experiences excruciating pain, he blames that on the hammer and God and other people. He doesn't take responsibility for his own decisions.
Black people’s IQ scores are…
a) lower due to genetics.
b) inaccurately perceived as lower because it serves some people’s nationalist identity.
The Middle East is…
a) less developed than the West because the people there are savages with an inferior culture.
b) less developed because the Middle East was a harsher environment to survive in. So historically those people have required more time to develop than those civilizations that arose in Europe and elsewhere.
-They will eventually develop to the standards of Western culture and beyond. So it’s not some inherent, genetic inferiority or some cultural problem. (“Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond)
Winning a debate means…
a) the winner knows the truth! Because he won! 🥇
b) the winner might know the truth or might not, because winning debates has nothing to do with truth.
Women have vaginas and Men have penises…
a) it’s a scientific fact.
b) it’s not always the case. The idea of penises, vaginas, men and women are abstract categories created beyond and outside of empirical science.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Really try on all options here. Stay meta.
a) what reveals truth.
b) a rationalization mechanism co-opted by the ego-mind for the purposes of your survival.
The Constitution must be…
a) followed because it’s the Constitution.
b) updated. It was written over 230 years ago and contains outdated ideas which need to fit with modern times, otherwise the nation will stagnate and perhaps even collapse.
I can't get laid because…
a) I don't have a square jaw and a big dick.
b) I don't understand female attraction, have cripplingly low self-esteem and don't socialize.
c) I don’t understand that a not-big dick is better at hitting sensitive spots inside a woman, so I can drop my “big penis envy” and focus on technique. Bigger isn’t always better. That’s like assuming the tallest guy in the room is always the best slow dancer. It depends on the size of the girl too.
-If you've never seriously tried to fix yourself how can you know your dick and jaw size are holding you back instead of self-esteem issues, fear of socializing and ignorance about female attraction?
I can't get laid because…
a) of feminism.
b) I blame feminism. I've never done the hard work of approaching women and I play hundreds of hours of video games. I also talk on incel forums who promote victim ideology.
a) the reason I can't get laid.
b) a scapegoat you invented because of your unwillingness to take responsibility for your results.
People think Jordan Peterson is a fascist because…
a) his haters are snowflake SJWs who are threatened by manly greatness!! Hail 🦞!!
b) his detractors are attached to the Progressive worldview. They don’t look at his work with nuance because they misunderstand the Conservative mind and feel attacked by stage blue.
Person X is a…
a) lying hypocrite grifter.
b) is just weak. Like all of us are. He failed up to live up to his own ideals and has been corrupted by money.
Person Y criticized me because…
a) he is projecting his own shadow onto me. I'm feeling guilty because I'm failing to distinguish that.
b) I actually did something wrong.
Landing a man on the moon proves that…
a) science is true.
b) it's possible to land on the moon with limited and even untrue science.
a) are greedy capitalists
b) have crazy pressures put on them for survival of the company.
I'm poor because…
a) capitalists exploit me.
b) I haven't taken responsibility for developing highly valuable skills.
b) only evil relative to today's cultural norms and level of development.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Really try on all options here.
a) real, because I can't walk through them, which proves their reality.
b) might be real, or I could be imagining walls that can't be walked through.
The number of stars and galaxies in the universe means that…
a) life is very common.
b) life is extremely rare.
-See how significantly different that interpretation is. It just flips the whole thing on its head.
When Leo calls Trump a corrupt fool, he’s being…
a) biased and partisan.
b) accurate. You just don’t want to hear it because you’re biased.
If the paranormal was real…
a) science would say so, but science doesn’t so it can't be real.
b) science would discredit the studies and outcast any scientist who dares to prove it.
a) will punish you for your sins.
b) will not punish you for your sins.
c) will love your sins as much as your goodness. However, sins naturally produce their own suffering by disconnecting you from loving consciousness.
e) sinning against another is just you punishing yourself.
Stage green socialism is…
b) being conflated with stage red and blue communism, which are not the same things at all.
Government regulation is…
b) necessary for the harmonious balance of a society. You can’t have a government without regulations.
b) makes the military, the courts, infrastructure and many other things you enjoy in a democracy possible.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Notice how many options there could be. Really try them all on. Stay meta.
Democrats want illegal immigration because…
a) it gives them more voters.
b) Democrats are more compassionate and less fearful because they actually care about the suffering of immigrants and don’t think it will destroy the country.
-To most Conservatives that interpretation doesn't even enter into their mind. When you can't compute that possibility the only alternative is to come up with some idea that Democrats are doing it for their own selfish gain.
Communism was a…
b) success that led to the greatest growth in living standards in the 20th century both in Russia and in China.
-If you actually look at the GDP growth and rise in living standards percentage-wise in Russia and China over the last century, it rose way more than in non-communist countries. Leo’s not saying communism is good. There are many problems with communism. He’s just showing how these interpretations are much trickier than they seem.
a) is a rapist and an abuser.
b) had consensual sex with a bunch of groupies and one of the groupies got mad because the guru wouldn’t marry her.
c) took advantage of his role as a teacher and confidant and used that to abuse and coerce girls who wouldn’t otherwise date him.
-This is a very common problem in spiritual communities.
Guru X is a rapist therefore…
a) he cannot be enlightened.
b) he could still be enlightened because who says enlightened people can’t be rapists?
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Really try on all options here.
People voted for Trump because…
a) they were racist.
b) he appealed to their spiral dynamic stage blue and orange value set, which is the majority of the US.
When Leo says that he's God…
a) he’s being narcissistic and unspiritual.
b) he actually is God.
c) he is God, and so are you, but you're not conscious of it yet.
Supernatural healing is…?
b) real, but only accessible from exceptionally high and rare states of consciousness that you haven't accessed yet.
The miracles of Jesus…?
a) are myths and exaggerated fairytales to tell to children.
b) are real because Jesus was so exceptionally conscious that he actually had those powers.
Disputes between spiritual teachers…
a) are just differences in word and style, not in substance. They’re basically word games.
b) are differences in underlying substance, and consciousness. Some teachers are actually more awake than others.
c) are a blend of a) and b)
There is no proof of paranormal phenomena because…
a) it's all bullshit.
b) the methods of proof you're using are too limited for measuring paranormal phenomena. After all, your method determines what you're going to get back.
I’m bad with women because…
a) I'm short.
b) I’m insecure about being short.
-You might spend your entire life thinking you're bad with women because of something you can’t change (your height) when the true cause is something you can change (your insecurity).
One of the best guys Leo knew from pickup was a 5’5 Pakistani guy. He would crush it. He would do better than a six foot tall white guy. At the club he was one of the most secure, brash and confident guys, the exact opposite of insecure, and his results reflected that.
a) care about my dick size.
b) only you care about your dick size.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Notice how many povs there could be. Really try on all options. Stay meta.
Examples from Leo’s Life
Leo said something in a video that I also said, which means…
a) he stole my work and didn't give me credit for it.
b) that people can develop insights independently and still overlap with other people’s insights. Not all ideas have one origin point.
c) deep universal truths can be discovered by many people.
d) he totally stole from you, and got away with it too!!
The backdrop of Leo’s apartment means…
a) Leo’s purposely sending secret Illuminati messages to his followers who 100% carry out his every command (unless those commands include mediating, exercising, reading or delousing the clutter in their mind)
b) Leo’s bad at decorating his apartment.
The symbol of 666 is…
a) deeply significant.
b) completely meaningless.
c) the molar mass of the high-temperature superconductor YBa2Cu3O7, which makes it satanic.
Youtube/Influencer fame is…
a) the most profound and fulfilling experience a human soul can have.
b) a stream of babes and compliments, with maybe one troll every five years.
c) a nonstop flood of people projecting their egos at you.
-Leo has experienced constant projection on a daily basis for the past decade. It’s especially difficult because he stays open to feedback and valid constructive criticism. However, it’s difficult to distinguish that from people’s projections.
It underscores how everyone is projecting all the time and of course Leo does it to others too. When you experience other people’s projections so strongly it makes you more aware of your own projections. (It also shows fame ain’t all it’s cracked up to be)
Leo deleted my youtube comment because…
a) he doesn't like me and he's censoring me.
b) youtube has automatic comment filters to get rid of spam.
Youtube’s spam filter is…
a) proof it’s part of a globalist conspiracy to suppress free speech.
b) trying to counteract bots and spammers that would make websites like youtube unrunnable.
Leo filters out comments based on….
a) opinions he disagrees with. Critiques of his work.
b) slander, racism, extreme vulgarity, disinformation, conspiracy theories, spam, and so on.
Leo’s work is…
a) a copy of other spiritual traditions and presented as his own truth.
b) a result of discovering these insights independently on his own.
c) triggering to people who are attached to their particular lineage or guru as the source of truth.
d) fun to play in the background while you’re cooking.
-If that original yogi or mystic could discover the truth for himself, why can’t other people discover the truth for themselves too?
Leo doesn't want to debate others because…
a) he’s afraid of being exposed as a fraud.
b) he has become too conscious to be interested in debating anyone.
c) he’d rather spend that time making videos for us 🥳!
Leo denies he is leading a cult because…
a) he isn’t leading a cult.
b) denying you're a cult leader is exactly what a cult leader would do, which proves Leo’s leading a cult!
-That’s circular logic. I can play this game on you. I can call you a cult leader and as soon as you deny it I'll say, “Ah ha! According to your logic if you deny your cult leader that's exactly what makes you a cult leader!” (Speaking of which, Kanye West says his greatest accomplishment is that he is the greatest)
That spiritual teacher…
a) worked really hard to become enlightened.
b) didn't have to work that hard because he was born with exceptional spiritual talent.
Leo didn't respond to my email (or my awesome LoA question ) because…
a) he doesn't like me 😢.
b) he didn’t see my email. He gets tons of them 📨🤦♂️📨
-Using the Spiral Dynamics model…
a) stage orange with a bit of red.
b) stage red with a veneer of orange.
Jordan Peterson is…
a) stage yellow with a green shadow.
b) stage orange with some yellow capacities.
-Spiral dynamics has very interesting interpretive problems because it also suffers from the Underdetermination problem. (ep: Spiral Dynamics) It takes a lot of experience, study and application of spiral dynamics to be able to start to distinguish between these things. Even the developers of spiral dynamics suffer from this problem.
Don Beck and Ken Wilber…
a) are right about pushing towards stage yellow because we’ve already exhausted stage green.
b) are seriously overestimating how evolved politics and culture are.
-In the US, green is only prevalent in advanced universities. The majority of society is still in blue and orange, even in developed countries. We've got to move through green for many years before we can get to yellow. We don't even have a green economic or political system.
Spider Dynamics is an interpretation that you're projecting onto reality. It can be difficult to know which interpretation to apply, which one is more accurate. Clip: Spiral Dynamics (11 min)
People who believe in ufos…
a) are idiots.
b) aren’t necessarily idiots. Scientists and skeptics are simply too close-minded.
c) watched too much X-Files growing up.
d) are right. UFOs are hidden because there’s a conspiracy!
e) are right. UFOs are hidden because the government and people studying them can’t explain them properly. It doesn't fit their worldview.
Absolute truth is…
a) not real, because if it was everyone would know about it and talk about it.
b) so radical that almost everyone is in denial about it.
All spiritual teachings…
a) are just different paths up the same mountaintop, leading to the same peak.
b) are not different paths leading to the same peak. There are lower and higher places along the mountain and it's not a single mountain. It's a mountain range with many different peaks and not all paths lead to the same peak.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Notice how many options there could be. Really try them all on. Stay meta.
a) impossible, just religious wishful thinking.
b) possible because death is actually a mental construction that you're imagining.
In a relationship, you could say…
a) your partner is the problem.
b) you are actually the problem.
c) the two of you are not a good fit.
d) one or both of you is wrong and evil.
There's something wrong with…
a) the world.
b) how your mind sees the world.
-Remember, how would you know the difference? Really try on all options here.
a) are shallow cheating pigs.
b) aren’t shallow cheating pigs. You just end up with pigs because of your low self-esteem problems.
a) a fictional bearded man in the sky.
g) all of the above.
The existence of evil in the world means…
a) God is not good.
b) God cannot exist because he wouldn't create evil.
c) that “evil” is just an illusion created by your selfish biases. You don't see the world’s perfection because your vision isn't perfect.
a) impractical and a waste of time.
b) valuable. You just haven't done it enough to realize it.
a) impossible to know.
b) possible to know because you are consciousness and consciousness is infinite, but you don't understand that yet because you haven't become conscious of it.
a) wrong, because he hasn't considered whatever point I want him to consider.
b) maybe right. Maybe Leo has already taken that point into account and seen beyond it to points you have yet to consider.
c) not perfect, but his epistemology is better than most people's epistemologies. He’s spent decades doing the work. Can the same be said for you?
-The notion of raw facts is a naive myth. Your mind does so much interpretation and confirmation bias that your relationship to reality is less than one percent. The other 99 percent are your projections, interpretations, assumptions, metaphysical and epistemic frameworks. Your “facts” are actually biases, beliefs, fears, emotions and justifications.
-Your interpretations are are deeply distorted by your survival needs and insecurities. They’re not objective or arbitrary.
-Key point: Notice your interpretations. Even deeper, notice yourself denying that your interpretation is an interpretation. How are you trying to retcon your interpretations as fact or science or “just the way it is”? Also notice how rash and unconscious interpretations lead to self-deception and misunderstanding the world.
-Start taking alternative interpretations more seriously. Reality is a lot less obvious than it seems. The ability to go meta is crucial for Spiral Dynamics Tier Two. Stage Yellow is interpretation aware and holds multiple perspectives at once.
-This work takes cognitive development and consciousness. Be aware that most knowledge, opinions and reporting you see in culture and media is actually an interpretation, but you’re not treating it as such.
You unconsciously swallow culture and media and their implicit frames which leads to deep self-deception in your life.
-The meta point here is notice all possible interpretations of a situation, rather than looking for the “right one” and defending it.
This will make you a better human, a better creator, more effective in business and relationships, with your health, with your wealth. It'll make you happier. It'll make it easier to do spiritual work.
Tips for Application
1) There’s always dozens of interpretations. If you can only see one or two, you’re being epistemically irresponsible. That's your clue you're not being mentally flexible and curious enough, that you’re just fooling yourself.
2) Realize that your first interpretation is usually the worst. Unless you're extremely spiritually developed your initial gut interpretation is going to be very crude, foolish and wrong. The more contemplation you do of epistemology and metaphysics, the better your interpretations will get. Overcome your self-deceptions. Notice the ego games and the blaming in your mind (ep: Self-deception I).
3) Get in the habit of looking for alternative interpretations. Make it a little game you play with yourself. This requires exploring multiple perspectives with an open-mind, without bias. Even seeking a high quantity of interpretations is good.
4) Seek more nuanced, high quality interpretations. The examples above have both crude and nuanced interpretations. Notice the differences between them.
5) Generate novel interpretations for all sorts of situations. For your relationships, your children, love life, sexuality, views about men, women, the government, and so forth.
6) Reinterpret your own self. You have tons of negative interpretations of your capacities that you consider facts. How compassionate and empowering are your interpretations about yourself?
7) Seek more charitable and loving interpretations. Some interpretations are very fear-based, us versus them, tribalistic and polarizing. Other interpretations are more compassionate, more inclusive. Steel man other interpretations instead of straw manning them.
8) Seek interpretations that understand and can accommodate other perspectives.
9) Question and discard fear-based interpretations. These are robbing you of your vitality and ability to be effective in the world and to see reality truthfully. Fear is the smog that clouds up your vision. It sneaks into so many of your interpretations, in ways you don't detect. If you want to reach truth give up your fear-based interpretations.
10) Question and discard toxic, disempowering interpretations and victim mentality. When you start to interpret yourself as a victim it becomes your reality. You’re constantly drilling that into your mind.
Notice how conspiracy theories and incel ideology use fear, hatred and judgment to make you feel like you're being empowered by the theory, but you’re actually not. It dismisses compassionate interpretations that could jailbreak your mind and truly improve your life.
Notice that incels and conspiracy theorists hammer your reptile brain. They lack the ability to self-reflect and go meta. Their epistemology is very poor. That’s a surefire sign that their ideology is limiting and toxic.
How is interpretation different from Recontextualization?
It's a difference of degree. (ep: Recontextualization). Recontextualization is about how the context of a situation changes what the facts are and how you perceive the facts. Recontextualizations are pretty rare, happening maybe once a month or once a year. Reality pummels you with something and then you're forced to change your interpretation. Interpretation is similar, but happening on a much more fine grained level. Interpretations are always going on in your mind.
Be careful about how you interpret these teachings
The gavagai bunny also shows up in Leo’s work 🐰. There can be double, triple meanings to the words Leo uses. Unfortunately unconscious people who need these teachings the most are the most prone to misinterpreting them. Also the more advanced a teaching is, the easier it is to misinterpret. His concept of, say, ego death isn’t the same as your concept of ego death in your mind.
Leo’s 3 hr episode about Relative truth means…
a) Life is subjective, relative and full of interpretation, therefore Absolute truth does not exist.
b) misunderstanding Relative truth causes a lot of suffering, and it co-exists with Absolute truth 🤯!
What you think he said might be the opposite of what he actually intended to say. That’s the difficulty of communication. So be very careful when listening to these videos.
-Epistemology is at the core of all of your problems in life
When you don’t take that seriously you misinterpret everything, everywhere. The finite thing you believe you are is itself a gross misinterpretation of what you actually are. You have fundamentally misinterpreted infinity as something finite. You've misinterpreted consciousness as material substance. Mind and body as atoms and science as truth. Culture, government, politics, your own capacities as a human being, you've misinterpreted all of these.
-The real work is correcting the misinterpretations in your mind. Fixing your epistemology fixes the foundation for your life. The sturdier the foundation, the higher you can build your skyscraper.
With most spiritual development teachings you get flimsy houses of cards. At least when you're done with a three hour Actualized.org episode it will change something about how you see the world, and over time that changes your life.
Jamie Wheal wrote in his new book "Recapture The Rapture" what he calls Cheat Codes for the Infinite Game. Curious to hear what others think. He claims it's the only Western distillation of Truth that is not tied to dogma or tradition...
The Game has an infinite number of levels in an infinite number of dimensions.
■ The purpose of the Game is to remember you are playing it (anamnesis).
■ The more levels of the Game you remember you’re playing, the more fun (and
consequential) the Game becomes.
■ Higher levels of the Game bleed through into 3D: They often show up as
coincidences, synchronicities, or absurdity. This is a “known issue” best taken as a
reminder that the Game is afoot (and held loosely).
■ The 3D level is the access point to all the other levels of the Game. If you die at the
3D level of the Game, it is Game Over (unless or until proven otherwise). So no
matter what, don’t die in 3D!
■ Don’t say anything, or think anything that you don’t want to become more true.
■ Once you’ve figured out the Game, help turn as many NPCs (nonplayer characters)
into Players and Players into Architects as you can.
■ Stay awake. Build stuff. Help out.
How can I fully love this experience? (The human experience I am having). Instead of hating It?
The hate is of arising, appearing, thoughts. Conditioning.
Thoughts which do not jive with the truth within you, which is of the heart.
If you hold your hand on a hot stove, you will not like the burn, and you will eventually remove your hand from the stove.
If you hold your attention on thoughts which do not feel good to you, you will eventually remove your focus from those thoughts and focus on thoughts and activities which do feel good to you.
My one vote, my advice or suggestion, is to do so swiftly. Not to linger & dwell. Not to attempt to solve with more thoughts in kind.
You are love, you are the creator. No thought less will do.
See who you really are. Question that which is appearing as.
Statistically, that's about 90% chance of destroying your body for no reason and 10% of living the rest of your life with brain damage. As the bullet will enter your head and destroy the body, you will suffer extremely, more than you ever suffered. If you don't care about suffering, then why do you care about suffering in general to a point where you are ready to destroy the body to avoid it?
If you really want to stop suffering, stop caring about suffering. You can literally just think about something else. None of what you are thinking is true, and that's why it feels absolutely terrible. Why cling to those ideas to death?
I spent in total about 14 months at Shunyamurti's ashram working and living there as a volunteer. After I left I started doing some serious research into cults reading multiple books and articles. I started contacting people who lived there. I talked to short term visitors, other volunteers like me who spent a couple of months and ex members who left after years of involvement. I also talked to somebody who was there from day one being involved for over a decade having access to the inner circles and to the children of a couple who are among the founding members and the main financiers.
I did all that in order to wrap my mind around what happened to me and what is happening there in general. Although I knew something about cult dynamics I couldn't see clearly what was going on while I was there and only through research, reflecting, distancing myself and talking to others gathering reference experiences was I able to understand. Also I trusted the organization, Shunya and Leo's opinion on it/him to much. That makes it easy to get sucked in. I plan to write a detailed article about my experience and what I found out but it will take me some time to finish it. I will post it on the actualized.org forum, the mentioned cult forum and on https://www.satyoga.exposed/ which is a new website, once it is done.
I wanna just briefly mention here to what conclusion I came and that it was and still isn't easy for me to say what I have to say because I really wished it would be otherwise. It would have made things a lot easier for me but the fact is that the Sat Yoga Ashram is what is called a Mind Control Environment. When you look into the literature you will find that in evaluating if an organization is a cult it is not crucial what the teachings are but if mind control techniques are being used to manipulate people into coming, staying, working and donating, etc. Of course every cult teaches legitimate wisdom and techniques to some extent and the quality of Shunya's teachings is very high which makes it even more tricky and deceptive. And of course I can't really speak of his intentions or if he is fully enlightened or to what degree.
Once I had a session with him and I told him I was reading 'Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender' by David R. Hawkins, telling him that the guy is a psychiatrist and supposed to be enlightened. After telling him what I got from the book so far he told me that he thinks the book was dangerous to me and asked me how I know that the guy is enlightened. I don't really know I told him. Well how do you know Shunya is enlightened? You don't and you don't know what his intentions are. Punto. A long term student I talked to called him a shark. Once in a Satsang he said openly that he would tell people anything. Didn't seem to bother them. He is probably more intelligent and well read than you and me are. So be careful what you are getting into. I'm not saying don't go there or that you have to believe any of this. I just wanna say what I have to say because in my opinion it is my duty to do so. If you wanna check it out check it out. If you wanna go live there go live there. It is a beautiful place. But I would advise you to educate yourself on cults beforehand in order to recognize the red flags. If you are a member reading this and you are happy great. But I doubt it. If you wanna talk to me you have my number.
There are different models of mind control. One Steven Hassan speaks about in his book “Combating Cult Mind Control” breaks it into four components: Information -, Behavioral -, Emotional - and Thought Control.
I will give you a couple of examples for each category in an unorganized way. I already gave you one. Telling me that a book was dangerous is a red flag and is part of information control. In subtle and not so subtle ways you are made to distrust other information then those given by Shunya and over time you are given the impression that Shunya is the ultimate teacher and pretty much your only chance of becoming enlightened. It is true that Shunya himself reads a lot of books, lectures from some while teaching, holding book groups in the past and people seem to be encouraged to read a lot. In reality you don't have the time and energy to do so (with reading a lot I mean reading something like 20 – 30+ books a year) because you are following a very tight schedule even more so when you are a full member. People mainly read books recommended and approved by Shunya. I once talked to a member on a walk about books and she told me something along the lines of checking in with Shunya when you read a book and asking him what's valid and what's not. You get the idea. Plus you get bombarded with information already. It is overwhelming. You don't have the space to integrate it. You hear Shunya teaching on average at least once a week, then there is Gyana Video Night were you listen to a recorded teaching, Guided Meditation - Shunya's recorded voice on tape and you hear a recorded teaching usually Thursday evening. That's pretty much business as usual not counting events. Sometimes he's teaching multiple times a week. His output is actually pretty amazing but he is also repeating himself. Combined with little sleep, a light diet and long work hours the amount/kind/style of information shuts your critical thinking abilities down, making you more prone to suggestion and less able to think for yourself which takes a toll on your decision making ability keeping you in the loop. I experienced it myself.
In a session when I was sharing my doubts about staying and preferring to study on my own he tried to convince me to stay. He told me that he distilled all the wisdom already and that I would grow more in one week in his Ashram than in months or years out there. A friend of mine was molested by somebody. They told her not to tell anybody and swept it under the rug. Somebody told me that Shunya put her down because of her physical appearance comparing her to somebody else who supposedly was better looking. Another friend asked for the number of somebody who just left the community. She wanted to check on how he was doing. Do you think she received the number? Of course not. She was asked why she wants the number and was made to feel guilty for having asked and it was brought up in her next session with Shunya. Another friend Shunya just flat out lied to about something she knew wasn't true. Shunya is not accessible other then through having sessions with him which you pay for in general. At some point I told them I didn't had the money any more and I would still have them but once a month or once in two months. You might meet him on a walk or catch him after a teaching but otherwise you don't see him. I never had a meal with him even on events he would leave very quickly. Once they put his chair a little far away from the audience for an event. He wanted to make a joke saying that he was already put at such a distance from the community but this was too much. Some in the community were angry about that remark because who is putting him at a distance other then himself. I guess he knows that people would quickly see through his bullshit if they saw him act more in everyday life. It is easier to play the role of a perfect idealized teacher when your students only see you teaching and in personal sessions every once in a while. On my first days I was told some of the “rules” of the place. I was told not to speak to anybody about what is being said in sessions with Shunya and his wife Radha to anybody. Also you shouldn't try and interpret somebody's feelings or dreams and give advise but leave that to the experts. In that way they isolate you because you then tend to be reserved not wanting to edge on. They keep a veil on what Shunya tells people in sessions. Would seem strange if you knew that he tells the same things to people. Trying to convince people to stay and donate money or build a house. Telling them that they could become a teacher. That in their past life they were somebody special. Some variation of that. He told me that I was a great leader in my past life who made some big mistakes toward the end. That was why I chose a life with little responsibilities. He is flattering people in the beginning. Love bombing is a big thing the first weeks or even months. Plus you are treated very differently when you have money. But after a while they go and undermine your self esteem. Making little remarks in sessions or publicly. I wasn't following all the rules and taking on a little more responsibility. In a satsang he made a remark about the volunteers there which were only me and somebody else. He said something along the lines of we have volunteers here who are telling the Sadhaks what to do. They want their sovereignty but have you earned it? In sessions he becomes impatient putting you down in some way destabilizing you. A friend who got a name from Shunya in private was told that from now on she is being watched more closely and that she had to behave. Later she contacted another teacher what was considered a no go. In my first session after meditating together which was basically staring in each others eyes for a long period of time what has an effect on one's consciousness, he told me that I would know a lot, as if he was reading me. In the past I thought the staring part was he giving me Shaktipat. You consciousness can feel elevated. I asked him what it was but he answered evasively: something like that. Today I think that it is a technique to hypnotize people. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
The Apocalypse is coming soon no doubt so just hand them all your money. You can build a house and live of bananas and broccoli no problem. Somebody I talked to in my research asked me the very good question: If Shunya really believes in the apocalypse why did he build himself a villa which approximately cost at least 500k instead of building himself a small wooden house like most other houses there putting the remaining money into building more greenhouses? By the time he built his house they had zero greenhouses. Only a couple of years later through donations they build their first two big ones. People are made to believe the apocalypse is coming. One of the highest member once told me for example that she is to paranoid to leave Costa Rica. Costa Rica is a protected place you have to know. When Russia/China have their nuclear war with the US the wind currents will transport the nuclear outflow away I imagine. I asked him about Nuclear Winter. He handwaved it away. That won't happen and changed the topic. On an other occation he said that aliens will help clean the earth and that the contaminated landmasses will crush in the sea and new landmasses will come up very quickly. I'm not bullshitting you. You can consider that one a quote. I actually have an audio file with what students call a Dharma Talk. I will post it in the article. It is a very good example of how he is using an apocalyptic scenario to bind and manipulate people using fear, guilt and shame. One visitor once hit the nail on the head when he said that the guilt trip that's going on there is really strange. And you can see it if you spent more time there. People are not really happy. They are lonely and they are sheep as Leo put it correctly. All of them with maybe one exception were not familiar with spirituality when they came into contact with Shunyamurti and they got all their key information through him. That should tell you something. Every week they watch a movie or a documentary or something like that which Shunya chooses. I suggested to watch some of Leo's videos. No response. They know about Leo and his work because he was there. Do you think anybody there is familiar with his body of work to any significant degree? Most of them never watched a single episode. It's ridiculous. I only met one other volunteer who was as familiar with Leo's stuff as I was. Wanna what happened to her? She went through an intense process, having meditated for years starting to meditate intensely and going on a fruit diet. She had some deep awakenings everybody could tell. She started laughing uncontrollably during meditation multiple times. A side effect was that the energy of her body was rearranging itself I guess and she had issues with her energy level not being able to do physical work anymore the way she was doing before in the greenhouses and on the fields. So what happened? The avantgard ashram which is supposed to help the planet to enlightened couldn't provide the space for a women who was obviously going through some serious stuff unless they could profit from it. If she couldn't work she would need to pay money around 100 Dollars a day plus session fees which they knew she couldn't afford because she was a student so she had to leave. I told Shunya that I am interested in working with psychedelics and especially 5 meo. He told me that he is very familiar with it and that is doesn't work very well. Other psychedelics would work better. He sited Terence McKenna and that it didn't bring him anywhere. From a former member I heard what he was given: Weed, Mushrooms, Ayahuasca and Ketamin. I'll leave that uncommented since I honestly do not have direct experience with 5 meo yet and only with some of the substances above. But using weed? Oh yeah lastly in my last session I told Shunya that I decided to leave and I bought a plane ticket and all that. Do you think he thanked me for the work I have done working almost eleven months straight for his organization? To be fair it might just have slipped his mind. Still interesting though no?
So lastly the topic of family and friends. Oh man that's a biggie. You better believe that Shunyamurti and his wife Radha Ma manipulate the shit out of your family situation. Some people living there haven't talked to their families in years but most receive money from them. How do you think the regular members finance themselves? In a session Shunya told me that to my parents I was just a piece of shit actually knowing little about my past. Almost everybody cut off all their ties to friends and to most to their family. It is encouraged and in some way demanded. A guy I know was asked to leave because he refused to cut his family out of his life. They told him he was to attached.
It is actually somewhat difficult to hold contact when you don't have your own house with a wifi connection. There are only two spots where you can talk, one is outside the lodge where it is not very comfortable and the ashram is located in a cloud forest so mucho rain. The other one is not available to regular guests only for long term students and you have to ask for permission to use the room in order not to disturb anyone living in the complex. Plus it is not really encouraged to have contact to outsiders. Classic cult policy. They hold you back and keep you down yadayadayado.
I'm going to wrap it up here.
The last thing I will say is this:
That might have given you an overview.
But this is only the tip of the iceberg we are dealing with here.
I know it can seem daunting.
But we have a lot more to talk about.
I will go on in more detail about this stuff in the future.
Keep your shit together.
Go fucking meditating.
And I'm gonna see you next time with more.
Radha: Shunya has a PhD in Psychology.
Shunya: I never really finished my formal education in psychology because I found out that the system was corrupt so it didn't make any sense.
Me kinda: Mmh Kay...
Back before there were psychiatrists and therapists, way before the introduction of Prozac and Xanax, people were using mantras to calm their nervous systems and sooth symptoms of depression and malaise. In fact, the earliest mantras were used by Hindus more than 3,000 years ago. Employed by Buddhists, Christians, Taoists, and persons of most faith traditions, mantras defined in the strict sense consist of hymns, chants, syllables, or groups of words that are considered sacred, having psychological and spiritual powers. I use the term loosely to refer to a phrase repeated over and over, or whenever a painful emotion or thought surfaces. During periods of acute depression and anxiety, I have uttered these words as many as 500 times a day. They are especially useful when caught in tormenting ruminations.
Focused repetition of a soothing word or phrase, called autogenic training, helps you to relax and primes your body’s parasympathetic nervous system. A 2008 study at the University of Melbourne in Australia found that autogenic training, along with other relaxation techniques like progressive muscle relaxation and imagery, reduced depressive symptoms among some participants.
It’s best to develop your own mantras that will appeal to your emotions, ones that make you feel safe and are able to calm you down. Here are ten that have helped me.
1. This Too Shall Pass
The reminder of impermanence is a powerful antidote to fear—that everything is passing, even those emotions, thoughts, and situations that feel permanent and etched in our brains forever. Joseph Goldstein, co-founder of the Insight Medication Society, once said that “Wisdom is the clear seeing of the impermanent, conditioned nature of all phenomena, knowing that whatever arises has the nature to cease. When we se this impermanence deeply, we no longer cling; and when we no longer cling, we come to the end of suffering.”
2. Just for Today
I can do most things if I know it’s a 24-hour gig. By reminding myself that I only have to give this day my best shot—or maybe even the next 15 minutes—suddenly what I thought was truly impossible. Just as I repeated “one day at a time,” to myself over and over again when I quit drinking, “just for today” prompts me to get back in the moment, and not to sweat too much about a month from now or ten years out. It forces me to concentrate on now, which is the only thing that matters and the only thing I can control.
3. I Will Get Better
One of the most painful symptoms of depression is the despair and hopelessness you feel—the certainty that you will feel this way for the rest of your life. Before she died, my great aunt Gigi, who struggled with depression her entire life, left me with one word of advice: always repeat, “I WILL get better.” “Keep saying it over and over,” she said, “even when you don’t believe it.” She told me that eventually I would believe it, and those four words would bring me hope. She was right.
4. This Is a Moment of Suffering
In her book, Self-Compassion, Kristin Neff, Ph.D. offers a beautiful mantra she developed to help her deal with negative emotions, a reminder to treat herself with self-compassion when discomfort arises: “This is a moment of suffering. Suffering is part of life. May I be kind to myself in this moment. May I give myself the compassion I need.” I simplify it to the first sentence, which also makes me think of American Buddhist Pema Chodron’s instructions to “lean into the sharp points” when we are faced with fear, uncertainty, panic, and pain.
5. May My Life Be Of Benefit To All Beings
I acquired this mantra in meditation teacher Tara Brach, Ph.D.’s book, Radical Acceptance. One of the ways we can respond to pain is by transforming it into compassion. “As we transform suffering into compassion, we realize our interconnectedness with all of life,” she writes. Sometimes I also say “Make me an instrument of your peace,” the first line of the Prayer of St. Francis. Both mantras help me to use compassion to transcend my pain.
6. I Am Breathing In, I am Breathing Out
In his book, You Are Here, Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh instructs us to say with each in-breath, “Breathing in, I know that I am breathing in.” And with each out-breath, “Breathing out, I know that I am breathing out.” Mindful breathing, he explains, is the bridge that unites the body and the mind. By concentrating on our breath, we generate peacefulness and calm. This abbreviated mantra helps me stay mindful of my breath.
7. Be Not Afraid
The words “fear not” are used over 80 times in scripture, and “be not afraid” or the equivalent, another 30 times. There is no scripture passage that calms me down more than these three words. In fact, when I would begin to panic even as a grade-schooler, I used to sing the lyrics of the song “Be Not Afraid.”
8. Let It Go
It’s hard not to hear Elsa belting out the lyrics to “Let It Go” (from Disney’s “Frozen”) when these three words are assembled, but this phrase offers wisdom for everyone, not just those cursed with a syndrome that makes everything into an icicle. It’s especially helpful for me when I’m caught in obsessive thinking, ruminations that take on a life of their own.
9. There Is No Danger
As those who have experienced panic know, anxiety can often feel like you’re dying—that there is some inherent danger in your situation that could end your life. A great mantra for me, then, to keep my anxiety in check, is “There is no danger.” I picked up this gem in the book Mental Health Through Will Training by psychiatrist Abraham Low. He writes, “You will realize that the idea of danger created by your imagination can easily disrupt any of your functions … If behavior is to be adjusted imagination must interpret events in such a fashion that the sense of security … overbalances the sentence of insecurity.”
10. I Am Enough
Since many of my ruminations stem from feeling unworthy on some level, I remind myself that I am enough. I don’t need kids on the dean’s list nor do I need to be a superstar blogger with millions of Twitter followers to earn my place in this world. I am enough as I am, as a child of God, doing my best while battling a chronic health condition.
If you want to get your own mantra with your own voice contact us telegram +584147492006.
All of these are standard nondual truths.
If you cannot handle them, then stop doing spirituality and nonduality. I am not going to babysit you.
The entire point of all spiritual work is to realize that death is imaginary!
"The secret to life is to die before you die -- and find that there is no death." -- Eckhart Tolle
"Nothing that was real ever died, only names, forms, and illusions. The end of illusion – that's all death is." -- Eckhart Tolle
"When you have died this death, you realize that there is no death, and that there is nothing to fear. Only the ego dies." -- Eckhart Tolle
"There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion." -- Ramana Maharshi
"Death is nothing else but going home to God, the bond of love will be unbroken for all eternity." -- Mother Teresa
"Death is not extinguishing the light; it is only putting out the lamp because the dawn has come." -- Rabindranath Tagore
"Death is a taboo in most societies in the world. But what if we’ve got it completely wrong? What if death was not the catastrophe that it is made out to be but an essential aspect of life, rife with spiritual possibilities for transcendence?" -- Sadhguru
"The only reason why people have such a fear of death is they know nothing beyond the body." -- Sadhguru
"Death is a cosmic joke. If you get the joke, falling on the other side will be wonderful." -- Sadhguru
"Death is a fiction of the unaware. There is only life, life, and life alone, moving from one dimension to another." -- Sadhguru
- - - - - -
So please, spare me your crocodile tears about my teachings. My teaching are perfectly consistent with 2000 years of mystical and nondual tradition.
@samijiben You will understand when you realize that if you don't trust direct experience, there's nothing you can say or do at all.
You are overlooking the fact that all of your reason, thinking, imagining, math, logic, science, and doubt IS direct experience.
If you truly doubt direct experience, then you cannot even complete the thought: "What if direct experience is false?" because that thought is direct experience and therefore your own thoughts annihilate themselves before they even start forming.
And what if flying in a plane has unseen karma for lifetimes and lifetimes?
What if flying in a plane just seems wrong?
What if God wants you to walk everywhere barefoot instead and you are violating his divine plan?
Where do your "what-if" games end?
If you are so worried about it, then don't fly in planes.
I loved the new video. It might be one of the best so far. But there are a few things that I've been struggling with for a while. When I started to take this work more seriously three years ago, I really cared about going all the way. I didn't want to end up like those students that go up to teachers and say something like, "I've been meditating for forty years. Why am I still not enlightened?" I wanted to get there as quickly and as efficiently as possible, and I also wanted to go all the way; I didn't want to get stuck somewhere.
So when Leo talks about the power of psychedelics, that makes those substances very attractive of course. But I find it difficult to glorify these substances. I also can't demonize these substances, because I had significant experiences with psychedelics. The reason why I cannot glorify psychedelics, however, is because for some reason it just feels wrong. I always ask myself these questions: What are the unseen consequences of using psychedelics? What are psychedelics essentially doing to the body-mind?
On psychedelics, you can temporarily transcend your karma and experience the purity of life. But psychedelics cannot eliminate your karma; that'd be too good to be true. What if that has karmic consequences, however? What if you get to experience pure life for a heavy price that you cannot even imagine yet? What if the price is more karma in the long-run? Difficult life situations and calamities? Now you could say that that is all just imagination, and, of course, it is. But it's not really useful to say to everything, "That's just imagination." When you're standing at the edge of a precipice, you could say that it's imaginary that you will die when you jump. But that's a useful imagination. It doesn't even have to be a precipice and impending death. It could be any life situation that you can get yourself into without knowing what the consequences are. The question is: What are you getting yourself into, unknowingly, when you take psychedelics? Perhaps you get to momentarily transcend everything in the short-run. But what if the price is a hundred more lifetimes in the long-run? A hundred imaginary lifetimes, but a hundred lifetimes nonetheless. The rules are all imaginary, but the rules still apply, and the rules feel very real. Now, of course, I don't know what the rules of taking psychedelics are. Maybe there are no negative consequences at all. Maybe this is all just unnecessary fearmongering. I'm very open to taking more psychedelics, if that truly is the best method for going all the way. I just wanted to get this out of my system, and I also want to see what others think of this.
Especially protein powder. Protein powders can be straight up poison.
All powders highly concentrate heavy metals and toxins.
Imagine taking 50 gallons of milk and boiling it down to 1 lb of powder. That's a 50x increase in heavy metal concentration.
I wish I could give you some easy normie technique. Unfortunately I think the only way is to Awaken. Deeply awaken until you actually become Infinity. You need to actually break through in consciousness to that Infinity state and bask in it. The more you bask in it the more it will dissolve your samskaras, limited identifications, attachments, and impurities.
Unfortunately this requires HARDCORE spiritual practice. An hour per day is not going to cut it.
A more normie technique I've been toying with is simply just visualizing yourself every day as being the entire Universe, as being Everything. I think that if you do that every day for months and years it should start to rewire your old human self image to align with that of God. But I don't think this alone will be enough unless you also do it very hardcore, many hours per day, like a kind of meditation.