A way to determine if someone is enlightened or lying.

[ChrisZoZo]

Stumbled across this way to determine if someone is enlightened/(authentic in what they preach) or not, I would like to share. 

What you do is go on to a podcast or long interview with them, and watch their face as other people are talking. It’s remarkable some people who I have already think is highly probable to be a fraud. It almost a closes the case as a certainty to me. I watch their face go through a lot of emotions, peace seems to be quite distance. There really seems to be an act that they’re trying to put up, but they’re unable to do because their mind is focusing on monkey mind activities while also focusing on the person talking. So the act becomes very difficult to do and this becomes obvious in my opinion.  Some people I found are extremely good at putting up a fake act. 

I find it more effective to go on a video where there’s three people talking. 

With every way to determine if someone is lightened, of course this will not absolutely determine if someone is a enlightened, or not.  Maybe it is because is partially to do with the fact that it is not absolute truth that someone is enlightened. As absolute truth does not embody a relative term like this it’s simply logically impossible I guess. 

[Yimpa]

Nobody is.

[James123]

İ. 

[ChrisZoZo]

@Yimpa that may be the case, although I do want to still preference this, because some people say they are other say they’re at a certain level and it can be hard to know if you can take their word and listen to them. You can waste a lot of time listening to them when they’re really just frauds, even if they don’t say they’re enlightened. You can even apply this to people who you think are likely to be enlightened, and then listen to the more. If you feel like they act better in situations where they almost have difficulty to keep up the act if they were to keep up an act.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, ChrisZoZo said:

@Yimpa that may be the case, although I do want to still preference this, because some people say they are other say they’re at a certain level and it can be hard to know if you can take their word and listen to them. You can waste a lot of time listening to them when they’re really just frauds, even if they don’t say they’re enlightened. You can even apply this to people who you think are likely to be enlightened, and then listen to the more. If you feel like they act better in situations where they almost have difficulty to keep up the act if they were to keep up an act.

All people pleasing is an act, even an enlightened master has to hold his tongue or filter himself on some level when they are in certain environments. How do we know this? Because Jesus Christ got crucified for being authentic all the time. Osho talked about how the Buddha was more wise in his dealings with people because he didn't speak truth to power. 

It depends on how you want to look at it but looking at someone's facial expressions is not going to determine if they are enlightened. Enlightenment is just being aware that everything is pure imagination. That isn't going to get rid of things you find annoying. Enlightened masters are still living with a human body. Do not pedestalize them. If you want to be able to tell who is Enlightened, become Enlightened and you will know. But an unenlightened person can only SPECULATE whether someone is or isn't.

For example: 

^^This guy is enlightened, you can tell by his ability to answer these questions that he gets it. Authenticity just IS. 

Edited February 22 by Razard86

[ChrisZoZo]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

facial expressions is not going to determine if they are enlightened

I just do not agree in this at all. Really really moojiji and really really watch someone who’s established to be a scam artist. You can see so many emotions it’s amazing. this is one thing someone much further on the path said that you would be able to read someone very easily the more you develop. And I’ve noticed that as I’ve made my spiritual gains improved also. 

[ChrisZoZo]

@Razard86  although thank you for pointing out the fact that not everybody is going to be able to use this tool. It’s a strange consequence that the more developed becomes spiritually, the more developed to become in your capabilities to determine who is a Master or not. For example, been able to see “the light” in people Eckhart, describes this in his book. I don’t remember the exact quote, but it’s something like “light can only recognise light.”

When someone is able to see the light in someone, it’s almost as like a greater verification that you can get from any logical thing that your mind can possibly come up with. 

[Hojo]

Easiest way to tell is if they start insulting you for no reason or at all. 

[Water by the River]

 

Nobody at home. Only boundless Infinity.

Try doing that with a monkey mind still well and alive!

[Princess Arabia]

On 2/22/2024 at 10:41 AM, Yimpa said:

Nobody is.

that means everybody is. Choose one.

[Razard86]

23 hours ago, ChrisZoZo said:

@Razard86  although thank you for pointing out the fact that not everybody is going to be able to use this tool. It’s a strange consequence that the more developed becomes spiritually, the more developed to become in your capabilities to determine who is a Master or not. For example, been able to see “the light” in people Eckhart, describes this in his book. I don’t remember the exact quote, but it’s something like “light can only recognise light.”

When someone is able to see the light in someone, it’s almost as like a greater verification that you can get from any logical thing that your mind can possibly come up with. 

My aim is just to simplify things. God is Pure Love, so anybody's teachings that align with that is teaching God. God is truth, God is an eternal consistency, God is infinite. So those who emulate beyond average consistency in how they communicate both in word and action are teaching truth.

THIS^^ is how you determine if someone is enlightened or not. You don't need some technique all you need to do is observe and life will reveal. Since we all are an expression of finite love of the infinite we all have our failings our flaws. So this is why consistency/truth is your best barometer. Now one can be highly conscious but inconsistent and one can be lower conscious and more consistent, but is that consistency dogma, or flow?

You can discover if it is flow by their ability to adapt both in word in action to different circumstances. If they are rigid in their actions and words then they are missing the integration of Love.

Love is connecting without judgment, and truth is consistency. Put the two together and you have what you need to figure out someone's level. Look at their actions, and look at their words and observe with discernment, but without judgment.

If someone needs an example ask and I will provide one.

Edited February 23 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

My aim is just to simplify things. God is Pure Love, so anybody's teachings that align with that is teaching God. God is truth, God is an eternal consistency, God is infinite. So those who emulate beyond average consistency in how they communicate both in word and action are teaching truth.

THIS^^ is how you determine if someone is enlightened or not. You don't need some technique all you need to do is observe and life will reveal. Since we all are an expression of finite love of the infinite we all have our failings our flaws. So this is why consistency/truth is your best barometer. Now one can be highly conscious but inconsistent and one can be lower conscious and more consistent, but is that consistency dogma, or flow?

You can discover if it is flow by their ability to adapt both in word in action to different circumstances. If they are rigid in their actions and words then they are missing the integration of Love.

Love is connecting without judgment, and truth is consistency. Put the two together and you have what you need to figure out someone's level. Look at their actions, and look at their words and observe with discernment, but without judgment.

If someone needs an example ask and I will provide one.

Since you've been back, I've noticed a different aura about you. More freeing, less weight more fluid. 

[ChrisZoZo]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

emulate beyond average consistency in how they communicate both in word and action are teaching truth.

Very true, there’s no need for someone who is true to try to convey himself in anyway. Rather just the light comes through naturally, while clear, simplistic words are spoken. 🙏

[Reciprocality]

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Nobody at home. Only boundless Infinity.

Try doing that with a monkey mind still well and alive!

@Water by the River of course there is someone home, these "sacred sightings" becomes memories for the same self who with few sparks intended to move their eyes.

The difference is that the sightings does not connect to hundreds of disjoint and conflicting narratives.

The man is one with his surroundings, and he is one with all our and our ancestors selfs, telos, but he is so from a particular position, all connecting (likely later) to who he ones was, but in his case (in this particular timeframe) the connection is not in contradiction while in my and many others case it is.

Edited February 24 by Reciprocality

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:15 PM, ChrisZoZo said:

What you do is go on to a podcast or long interview with them, and watch their face as other people are talking. It’s remarkable some people who I have already think is highly probable to be a fraud. It almost a closes the case as a certainty to me. I watch their face go through a lot of emotions, peace seems to be quite distance. There really seems to be an act that they’re trying to put up, but they’re unable to do because their mind is focusing on monkey mind activities while also focusing on the person talking. So the act becomes very difficult to do and this becomes obvious in my opinion.  Some people I found are extremely good at putting up a fake act. 

These are all ideas you project onto them, based on your limited understanding of reality. There is nothing "there". Everything is HERE. Everything is YOU! What you are doing is playing a game with all of these ideas about other people and "their enlightenment", but do you even know what this word is pointing to, or are you the one that is "putting on an act" when you say that you know all of those things about these people?

You're trying to put people into boxes of "enlightened" and "not enlightened", but what if you focused on breaking out YOUR box instead? 

Drop the idea of other people and their enlightenment, and simply recognize the consciousness that radiates through every person (AS every person). This will allow much deeper growth, because then you will find wisdom even in the seemingly most unconscious people. True wisdom doesn't come from people. True wisdom comes straight from the source.

Your intuition is sort of right, they are putting on a dance, but so is every human, because that's what a human literally is. A dancing god. So you seem to recognize on some level that wisdom isn't found within the dance, or rather within what is being said or done, but within what is NOT being said and NOT being done.

There is a certain truth to that. Your intuition is trying to guide you beyond the mere appearance of the dance, and is inviting you to dance yourself! That's the point! There is a difference between watching someone dance vs dancing yourself. Similarly, there is a difference between thinking about the enlightenment of someone else and actually getting to the (bottomless) bottom of the word yourself!

Edited February 24 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Reciprocality said:

@Water by the River of course there is someone home, these "sacred sightings" becomes memories for the same self who with few sparks intended to move their eyes.

The difference is that the sightings does not connect to hundreds of disjoint and conflicting narratives.

The man is one with his surroundings, and he is one with all our and our ancestors selfs, telos, but he is so from a particular position, all connecting (likely later) to who he ones was, but in his case (in this particular timeframe) the connection is not in contradiction while in my and many others case it is.

 

http://hauntedpress.net/What_is_Enlightenment.html

"Feel what it is like to “not be there.”

The real breakthrough will come when you “feel” the truth.

It's creepy, not blissful or ecstatic. It should scare you, the body should react defensively, or there could be uncontrolled laughter at how stupid you have been for so long.

It's like one of those 3-D dot pictures - you stare and stare at those dots until, bingo! - the hidden picture emerges. After that, you can always see it; it can't be unlearned. It's the same with enlightenment."

 

 

 

 

and, maybe the most clearest of these videos

Colette Davis:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2wckwKSZme/

https://www.instagram.com/thatbeyondduality/

 

Feel any similiarities? Internally, its perceptions perceiving themselves. The former persona moving like the wind in ones boundless nondual Being, and sometimes not being there at all. Nobody home. Literally the Totality perceiving itself, nobody home...

And its not the nobody home of Avril Lavigne... It is the nondual infinite boundless Unity/Being, the Fullness of Infinity where nothing could ever possibly lack, which is not separated by a separate self cutting Reality/Being into subject/object, inside/outside, higher/lower...

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

After that, you can always see it; it can't be unlearned. It's the same with enlightenment."

Not for me. For me the thing is: at a given moment reality is an unlimited well, there is no one, it is not thinkable, it is total freedom, the reaction is laughter. There is not a single molecule of imperfection or sadness. At the same time, the mind is active in the background and thinks: obviously, it is impossible for me to fall back into a limited state. The energetic flow of reality is perceived, it is the infinite being now, there is nothing more to know or analyze about this. At a certain point, the mind starts trying to capture the scene again, for example thinking about other people, etc., and everything closes. once closed it is closed, and opening it again requires serious effort, meditation, anesthetizing the mind with drugs, etc. I managed to open let's say 25 times in my life, first just 3 seconds I brutal , but the mind is terrified, you have to be without any grip, lately, for example last week I managed whole 10 minutes, but then it's always closed 

Edited February 24 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

It's like one of those 3-D dot pictures -

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

 

I thought that very often 

[Water by the River]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Not for me. For me the thing is: at a given moment reality is an unlimited well, there is no one, it is not thinkable, it is total freedom, the reaction is laughter. There is not a single molecule of imperfection or sadness. At the same time, the mind is active in the background and thinks: obviously, it is impossible for me to fall back into a limited state. The energetic flow of reality is perceived, it is the infinite being now, there is nothing more to know or analyze about this. At a certain point, the mind starts trying to capture the scene again, for example thinking about other people, etc., and everything closes. once closed it is closed, and opening it again requires serious effort, meditation, anesthetizing the mind with drugs, etc.

 

vs.

 

I don't know a single case where stage 5 has been achieved without a looong meditation practice getting rid of the subtle remnants of stage 4. Because it takes a long time (for most) at the awakened nondual states of stage 4 to get rid of the most subtle remnants of the separate self.

Psychedelics get one to stage 3 (nondual Unity Godmind), or in more sophisticated cases to stage 4. 

The difference between stage 4 and stage 5 is the death of any and all separate self identity in real time. Not one single subtle element of that sticks any more and is not seen trough/cut off/ seen as moving within oneself. And there are many very subtle elements that can prevent realization.

And the difference between stage 4 and 5 is earth-shaking. That is why its called Enlightenment. And that prevents the clouding over you describe.

 

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I thought that very often 

I would recommend listening to these videos a few times, and clearly noticing the differences from stage 4 to stage 5. Stage 4 seems totally empty. But it is not. The cycle you describe is typical stage 4.

vs.