Perfect Going Out Drug

[OBEler]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 I think you are confusing habituation or addictive properties with health bad effects.

Literally you could do oxy each day for 10 years and have no health consequences at all.

In my experience, is even less noticeable for the body and less side effects than Kratom.  

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 I think you are confusing habituation or addictive properties with health bad effects.

Literally you could do oxy each day for 10 years and have no health consequences at all.

In my experience, is even less noticeable for the body and less side effects than Kratom.  

 

 

If you do it long-term your brain structure changes to the worse. Look for anhedonia 

Yeah if you would do it occasionally you  would probably have no damage of health much like drinking a beer occasionally. It's all about consuming in a non abusive way.

 

[Javfly33]

14 minutes ago, OBEler said:

If you do it long-term your brain structure changes to the worse. Look for anhedonia 

Yeah if you would do it occasionally you  would probably have no damage of health much like drinking a beer occasionally. It's all about consuming in a non abusive way.

 

Im pretty sure the anhedonia thing is due to people jumping to the drug when having a depression before even starting. 

Another way to look it is the anhedonia is part of the effects, because the good effects disappear due to tolerance, and the dullness this drugs produce is more prominent. When you stop, mind is clear again almost instantly . In my experience it has very little effect mentally. 

Not defending the drug lol, obviously unless having pain issues doing oxy is dumb, but I dont know, I did it for a whole year last year and I didn't notice bad mental effects. Super clean drug, just nasty physical withdrawal when you stop, but purely physical. Mentally I was absolutely fine. 

[Carl-Richard]

21 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Dopamine doesn't help with socializing at all unless you have some imbalances or deficiencies.

You want to be relaxed and confident, not wired—which is why a reasonable dose of Phenibut, which targets GABA, is so helpful.

Then that is your deficiency  Some people are so relaxed that dopamine would probably be their only way to become more social. You should see the med student who conducts our brain dissection lab sessions. He is a walking brick wall 😆 (not in an autistic way).

 

On a slightly (un)related topic, I've been thinking a bit about the relationship between neuroticism (in the strictly emotional lability sense) and creativity which we talked about one time. I consider myself way above average in creativity, and I've always been highly neurotic. I'm high in openness too, yes, but the combination with neuroticism and openness I think creates a creative beast. My dad is like that (BP1 diagnosis, arguably the definition of openness + neuroticism). My friend from class is high in openness but comparably low in neuroticism (by my estimation), and he doesn't seem as creative in the strictest sense but certainly intellectually gifted. Same with the aforementioned med student.

Another slightly tangential thought to that, I had a wild idea that maybe sprinters or explosive athletes are more neurotic on average. It sort of makes sense that one's personality would be associated with some deeper biological traits like that. In other words, being able to quickly change your physiological state in terms of muscle fiber recruitment could be mirrored in being able to quickly change your psycho-emotional state (emotional lability). Maybe there could be some co-selection of genes going on there to create the optimal "fast" phenotype. Again, this is of course just wild half-baked speculation. I haven't looked into any potential data on that yet

Also, back to creativity, I say "in a strictly emotional lability sense" because I believe that even though I have severely reduced my more "Freudian" neuroticism (internal conflict, repetitive and irrelevant mental chatter), I still have a mind that changes quickly while zeroing in on a task. In other words, my mind finds more relevant information and faster. So in a sense, it's possible to distinguish between a more generally dysfunctional neuroticism and a more generally functional neuroticism: emotional lability with or without task-irrelevant mind-wandering. Then again, I'm not saying task-irrelevant mind-wandering is by definition dysfunctional; I'm just saying generally (most people in the modern would could certainly benefit to have less of it).

I hope I'm not derailing the thread 😳 (I got carried away, I'm sorry 😣; just ignore everything but the first paragraph if you're not Nilsi. This is what happens when I take breaks from the forum and post at night 🤭).

Edited February 28 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

On 28.2.2024 at 1:08 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Then that is your deficiency  Some people are so relaxed that dopamine would probably be their only way to become more social. You should see the med student who conducts our brain dissection lab sessions. He is a walking brick wall 😆 (not in an autistic way).

 

On a slightly (un)related topic, I've been thinking a bit about the relationship between neuroticism (in the strictly emotional lability sense) and creativity which we talked about one time. I consider myself way above average in creativity, and I've always been highly neurotic. I'm high in openness too, yes, but the combination with neuroticism and openness I think creates a creative beast. My dad is like that (BP1 diagnosis, arguably the definition of openness + neuroticism). My friend from class is high in openness but comparably low in neuroticism (by my estimation), and he doesn't seem as creative in the strictest sense but certainly intellectually gifted. Same with the aforementioned med student.

Another slightly tangential thought to that, I had a wild idea that maybe sprinters or explosive athletes are more neurotic on average. It sort of makes sense that one's personality would be associated with some deeper biological traits like that. In other words, being able to quickly change your physiological state in terms of muscle fiber recruitment could be mirrored in being able to quickly change your psycho-emotional state (emotional lability). Maybe there could be some co-selection of genes going on there to create the optimal "fast" phenotype. Again, this is of course just wild half-baked speculation. I haven't looked into any potential data on that yet

Also, back to creativity, I say "in a strictly emotional lability sense" because I believe that even though I have severely reduced my more "Freudian" neuroticism (internal conflict, repetitive and irrelevant mental chatter), I still have a mind that changes quickly while zeroing in on a task. In other words, my mind finds more relevant information and faster. So in a sense, it's possible to distinguish between a more generally dysfunctional neuroticism and a more generally functional neuroticism: emotional lability with or without task-irrelevant mind-wandering. Then again, I'm not saying task-irrelevant mind-wandering is by definition dysfunctional; I'm just saying generally (most people in the modern would could certainly benefit to have less of it).

I hope I'm not derailing the thread 😳 (I got carried away, I'm sorry 😣; just ignore everything but the first paragraph if you're not Nilsi. This is what happens when I take breaks from the forum and post at night 🤭).

I'm afraid this will throw us into a deep discussion of creativity and art.

 

If I understand correctly, "neurotic" kind of means being more sensitive to one's emotional reactions/reacting more strongly to emotional triggers; perhaps even a deeper emotional experience in general.

While not the entire picture, for the purpose of our discussion, it might be fair to suggest that emotions were developed by evolution to prevent the emerging subject from becoming disconnected from the "objective" world, where it has to survive.

Therefore, high neuroticism would imply a leaning towards "objectivity" and pragmatism, whereas low neuroticism would be more associated with "subjectivity" and art.

 

Let's take painting as an example. I will agree that task-relevant processing will probably facilitate one getting into deep flow when painting and in that sense being conducive to mastery in this line of development. At the same time, one's imagination and artistic vision will be severely informed by this neurotic experience of life, which will tend to produce more representational and conformist ("objective"), as opposed to more personal and radical art.

I think the disconnect here is your idea of creativity being some perennial ideal one can tap into under the right conditions, while to me, creativity can only be brought forth by turning away from tradition and embracing the unknown and transgressive (and thus requiring low neuroticism to cultivate).

 

This is how I imagine a highly neurotic person would depict death and tragedy

vs. a highly non-neurortic (?) person: 

While "The Death of Socrates" (first picture) is no doubt a masterful painting, Motherwells "Elegy to the Spanish Republic" (second picture) is arguably much more important in its contribution to our understanding of art and representation (and thus more "creative"). There is also much more of the artist themselves in this work.

Which is a nice segue into this, perhaps relevant, quote:

"All artists are voyeurs, not people of action" - Robert Motherwell

Edited March 2 by Nilsi

[Michael569]

You know back in the days when I was a teenager (I'm 33 now), I'd just hit the gym and get a massive pump, smash an extra-chicken kebab, and that kinda spiked my confidence and mood

sounds like you're trying to medicate a major social anxiety there. Treat the root cause and you'll be good when meeting women without needing to rely on brain-chemistry altering stuff 

Edited March 2 by Michael569

[Javfly33]

33 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

You know back in the days when I was a teenager (I'm 33 now), I'd just hit the gym and get a massive pump, smash an extra-chicken kebab, and that kinda spiked my confidence and mood

sounds like you're trying to medicate a major social anxiety there. Treat the root cause and you'll be good when meeting women without needing to rely on brain-chemistry altering stuff 

Unless Enlightened or in a certain level of energy/mysticism mastery, Every human has social anxiety, is just that some people mask It better than others, or lie to themselves better than others. 

In the previous year ive gone out enough times to see that even the most social dudes i met where more cohibited and less free than me on a 15mg oxycodone.

I would like to see how many people can match sober the carefree and inner stillness state of a good oxy in my system. Already anything below that is a level of social anxiety.

Everyone is trying to feel better and carefree with people, up to 100% carefreeness. Dividing humans versus those that have social anxiety and those who don´t is not correct nor realistic.

Don´t make the OP feel like is weird or less than you. Is not true. He´s just being smart in how to enjoy life better than others. 

Edited March 2 by Javfly33

[Michael569]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

In the previous year ive gone out enough times to see that even the most social dudes i met where more cohibited and less free than me on a 15mg oxycodone.

Sounds like you are trying to justify avoiding the gap you need to bridge through significant amount of personal development to be where they are. 

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I would like to see how many people can match sober the carefree and inner stillness of a good oxy flowing the system

Very few, that's true. Until that oxy is out of your system. And what happens if you ever get into a situation where you have nothing outside of yourself to depend on anymore? 

I am not bashing on anyone, the response was an attempt to add subtle humour into what I thought was an unreasonable way to approach something as simple as going out,. But you do you, don't let me or anyone else tell you what to do. Every being has a unique way of how they are approaching their life. Maybe for some, this is indeed a must, maybe I'm just too old to understand it

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Very few, that's true. Until that oxy is out of your system. And what happens if you ever get into a situation where you have nothing outside of yourself to depend on anymore? 

Nothing, I literally feel the same around people sober now than before I tried oxy. Is just that if I take it again  I again will verify that I´m still ages sober from feeling that carefree on my own. But it has helped as a reference experience to see what is possible within myself if there is the right 'inner chemical soup' as sadhguru says 

The myth that once you do an action with something (like external chemical help) you are not going to be able to do it again sober doesn´t apply always. At least in my case. 

Quote

Sounds like you are trying to justify avoiding the gap you need to bridge through significant amount of personal development to be where they are. 

It might seemed that way but actually not the case, I currently do not use any drug as a social enhancer anymore, and overall I have faith and hope there is possibility of feeling even better without drugs. 

But...the OP was literally asking for a drug. So I avoided paternalizing him by saying do not take drugs just work on yourself.

Quote

to be where they are. 

I don´t think I´m below the other persons. 

I never denied that already sober Im as carefree as the most social dudes. Is just that the meter of carefreeness and confidence of the most social dudes is still anxiety in my meter. Is still some level of uneasiness. But again, as I said, my meter is high because I´ve gone to peaks of comfort and inner peace, so anything below that I already see it as friction. 

Edited March 2 by Javfly33

[Alex_R]

On 3/2/2024 at 4:33 PM, Javfly33 said:

Nothing, I literally feel the same around people sober now than before I tried oxy. Is just that if I take it again  I again will verify that I´m still ages sober from feeling that carefree on my own. But it has helped as a reference experience to see what is possible within myself if there is the right 'inner chemical soup' as sadhguru says 

The myth that once you do an action with something (like external chemical help) you are not going to be able to do it again sober doesn´t apply always. At least in my case. 

It might seemed that way but actually not the case, I currently do not use any drug as a social enhancer anymore, and overall I have faith and hope there is possibility of feeling even better without drugs. 

But...the OP was literally asking for a drug. So I avoided paternalizing him by saying do not take drugs just work on yourself.

I don´t think I´m below the other persons. 

I never denied that already sober Im as carefree as the most social dudes. Is just that the meter of carefreeness and confidence of the most social dudes is still anxiety in my meter. Is still some level of uneasiness. But again, as I said, my meter is high because I´ve gone to peaks of comfort and inner peace, so anything below that I already see it as friction. 

After taking a lot of lsd, mushroms, benzos and dmt i can get close to that outgoing happy mood that i got from benzos while Sober. Its difficult but possible. Fasting, no fap and hard excersise help a lot

 

Direct experience of happyness from drugs + self inquery is key

Edited March 9 by Alex_R

[Dauntment]

Molly.