Is Israel an Apartheid state?

[Guest Tobia]

I genuinely do not know.

But I guess these people would know first hand..

This is NOT to compare the south african ANC with the palestinian authority or let alone hamas criminals.

I also know that black south africans did not call for the destruction of the state of south africa.

Nonetheless, these people are giants of courage and integrity and I think their perspectives are valuable

 

[Leo Gura]

Rather than sticking a foreign label on it, just study the facts on the ground.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

 

[Lucasxp64]

Human Rights Watch - A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution

Quote

[...] authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. In certain areas, as described in this report, these deprivations are so severe that they amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.

 

Amnesty International - Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity

Quote

Our report reveals the true extent of Israel’s apartheid regime. Whether they live in Gaza, East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank, or Israel itself, Palestinians are treated as an inferior racial group and systematically deprived of their rights. We found that Israel’s cruel policies of segregation, dispossession and exclusion across all territories under its control clearly amount to apartheid. The international community has an obligation to act

- Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General

 

[Danioover9000]

@Tobia

16 hours ago, Tobia said:

I genuinely do not know.

But I guess these people would know first hand..

This is NOT to compare the south african ANC with the palestinian authority or let alone hamas criminals.

I also know that black south africans did not call for the destruction of the state of south africa.

Nonetheless, these people are giants of courage and integrity and I think their perspectives are valuable

 

 

   Yes it is, plus an ethnostate with Zionist Israelis making life hard for Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza, those in charge of Israel are also religious nationalists too.

[kray]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:42 PM, Raze said:

 

AJ+ is very pro-muslim country biased

[Lila9]

Israel is not an Aparthied state. It's different than South Africa. The situation is definitely unique but not an Aparthied state.

Israel has to have borders with Palestinians to insure it will keep being a Jewish country. If not, in a few years it will become like any other Muslim Arabic country in the middle east.

Part of Palestinian situation is due to their hatred for Jews, their level of consciousness, not receiving enough support from their Muslim brother all over the world and their curropted leaders rather than Israeli's deliberate ill intentions.

From outside it may look bad but when you are in this you understand that this is the wisest thing to do, to protect yourself physically and separate yourself from those who detest you, your culture and would like to kill you.

 

 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

34 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel is not an Aparthied state. It's different than South Africa. The situation is definitely unique but not an Aparthied state.

Israel has to have borders with Palestinians to insure it will keep being a Jewish country. If not, in a few years it will become like any other Muslim Arabic country in the middle east.

Part of Palestinian situation is due to their hatred for Jews, their level of consciousness, not receiving enough support from their Muslim brother all over the world and their curropted leaders rather than Israeli's deliberate ill intentions.

From outside it may look bad but when you are in this you understand that this is the wisest thing to do, to protect yourself physically and separate yourself from those who detest you, your culture and would like to kill you.

 

 

 

 

   'Israel is not an Apartheid state. It's different than South Africa. The situation is definitely unique but not Apartheid state.'. Well, human slavery was a business and the majority of society in all of history, not just Europeans and whites that enslave, but so do African kingdoms and tribes do practice slavery, as well as the Arab kingdoms then and still parts of the region to this day. So are you saying that Africa doesn't participate in enslaving Africans and selling them to the Arabians, because it's different than Europe, and Europeans and white people are the only ones to participate in the slavery business mostly? Do you understand that there are Israeli Zionists who want a 2 party ethnostate? 

[Raze]

11 hours ago, kray said:

AJ+ is very pro-muslim country biased

Still every major human rights organization and even the former head of Mossad have said it fits the definition of apartheid 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Israel is not an Aparthied state. It's different than South Africa. The situation is definitely unique but not an Aparthied state.

Israel has to have borders with Palestinians to insure it will keep being a Jewish country. If not, in a few years it will become like any other Muslim Arabic country in the middle east.

Part of Palestinian situation is due to their hatred for Jews, their level of consciousness, not receiving enough support from their Muslim brother all over the world and their curropted leaders rather than Israeli's deliberate ill intentions.

From outside it may look bad but when you are in this you understand that this is the wisest thing to do, to protect yourself physically and separate yourself from those who detest you, your culture and would like to kill you.

 

 

 

 

You declared Israel is not an apartheid, then explained why it’s apartheid and justified it. Segregating a race to maintain racial homogeneity is apartheid.

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

29 minutes ago, Raze said:

You declared Israel is not an apartheid, then explained why it’s apartheid and justified it. Segregating a race to maintain racial homogeneity is apartheid.

   True, the user doesn't realize he's also making the same arguments that people who are racists, or those on the left do with racism, blame all on one group of demographics like white people, but when it's non-white being racist? Nah, they get a pass. European slave owners don't get a pass, but African and Arabian slave owners? Sure they get a pass, why not.

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

You declared Israel is not an apartheid, then explained why it’s apartheid and justified it. Segregating a race to maintain racial homogeneity is apartheid.

Jews and Arabs are within the same race but different culture and religion. When two religions/cultures/nations don't agree and hate each other (with one of them that literally hates to the death), it's better and safer to be separated. 

Especially when one of them has another place to go, like Muslim Arabs, who have a few countries to go and live as Muslim Arabs, while Jews has only one country to live as Jews. 

Culture has the right to remain a culture if it wants as long as it doesn't harm any cultures. You can't force people to convert their religion or marry to someone from another culture.

 Muslim Arabs don't want to be  Zionist Jews and no one forces them, and  Zionists Jews don't want to be Muslim Arabs so why to force them? They have the right to be Jews in the single Jewish country in the world that is also historically connected to them. If they allow any Muslim Arab who wants to live as a Muslim Arab in their country, it will no longer be a Jewish country.  Their fear that it may not be a Jewish country is legitimate, given their history. If Jews had a country during the Holocaust, they wouldn't have be so many Jews killed.

It doesn't mean that Israel has to throw the Israeli Arabs who are already within it's territory, or any non-Jewish minorities, not at all. It should treat them as equals and with tolerance. From my understanding it treats them fine.

But Israel has the complete right to not accept non Jews to Israel as Israeli citizens.

Same like Iran or Jordan has the complete right to not accept Jews as its citizens and it does a good job in not accepting Jews as their citizens because they would like their country to be Muslim and Arabic and that's their right.

It's interesting that Muslim Arabs are so triggered by Palestinians situation. Instead of hating on Jews for existing as a country and crying about Jews mistreating Arabs, they could open their countries for Palestinians. No Arab country done this so far and I wonder why?

Maybe instead of pressure Israel to free Palestine, the pressure should be on Arab countries to accept them?

And maybe Muslim Arabs should have enough maturity to realize that they, as Muslims already have Mecca as their grand sacred place, so Jews are also allowed to have their grand sacred place which is in Jerusalem, and was sacred to the Jews much before it became Sacred to Muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Raze

   True, the user doesn't realize he's also making the same arguments that people who are racists, or those on the left do with racism, blame all on one group of demographics like white people, but when it's non-white being racist? Nah, they get a pass. European slave owners don't get a pass, but African and Arabian slave owners? Sure they get a pass, why not.

Hey, are you overreacting here?

There is a difference between being a racist and between preferring not living with a certain culture.

It doesn't mean that one is racist.

I prefer living in Switzerland because it fits me more, rather than in USA, am I a racist?

It's very delusional to assume that if you would like to live in a certain group and not another, you are being a racist.

Rasicm is more than that.

 

 

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Jews and Arabs are within the same race but different culture and religion. When two religions/cultures/nations don't agree and hate each other (with one of them that literally hates to the death), it's better and safer to be separated. 

Especially when one of them has another place to go, like Muslim Arabs, who have a few countries to go and live as Muslim Arabs, while Jews has only one country to live as Jews. 

Culture has the right to remain a culture if it wants as long as it doesn't harm any cultures. You can't force people to convert their religion or marry to someone from another culture.

 Muslim Arabs don't want to be  Zionist Jews and no one forces them, and  Zionists Jews don't want to be Muslim Arabs so why to force them? They have the right to be Jews in the single Jewish country in the world that is also historically connected to them. If they allow any Muslim Arab who wants to live as a Muslim Arab in their country, it will no longer be a Jewish country.  Their fear that it may not be a Jewish country is legitimate, given their history. If Jews had a country during the Holocaust, they wouldn't have be so many Jews killed.

It doesn't mean that Israel has to throw the Israeli Arabs who are already within it's territory, or any non-Jewish minorities, not at all. It should treat them as equals and with tolerance. From my understanding it treats them fine.

But Israel has the complete right to not accept non Jews to Israel as Israeli citizens.

Same like Iran or Jordan has the complete right to not accept Jews as its citizens and it does a good job in not accepting Jews as their citizens because they would like their country to be Muslim and Arabic and that's their right.

It's interesting that Muslim Arabs are so triggered by Palestinians situation. Instead of hating on Jews for existing as a country and crying about Jews mistreating Arabs, they could open their countries for Palestinians. No Arab country done this so far and I wonder why?

Maybe instead of pressure Israel to free Palestine, the pressure should be on Arab countries to accept them?

And maybe Muslim Arabs should have enough maturity to realize that they, as Muslims already have Mecca as their grand sacred place, so Jews are also allowed to have their grand sacred place which is in Jerusalem, and was sacred to the Jews much before it became Sacred to Muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

Then Israel should have worked out a fair deal for a Palestinian state. Even Hamas changed their charter to accept a state deal bas3d on the 1967 borders. Instead Israel continues to slowly destroy Palestine and let heavily armed settlers invade.

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Hey, are you overreacting here?

There is a difference between being a racist and between preferring not living with a certain culture.

It doesn't mean that one is racist.

I prefer living in Switzerland because it fits me more, rather than in USA, am I a racist?

It's very delusional to assume that if you would like to live in a certain group and not another, you are being a racist.

Rasicm is more than that.

 

 

   The main problem is your sweeping under the rug that Israel isn't doing Apartheid long term towards Palestinians, they are via land grabbing their territories, I'm just exposing this logic, considering that Israel is really seeking, with it's Zionists at the top, a 2 party system ethnostate that benefits Israel more than Palestine, an ethnocentric and nationalistic move. With the racism and slavery example that was an analogy to what you're doing here, just like the left wing, white people bad must be the only racists so non-white aren't. Just because it's a complex issue with many developmental factors, doesn't mean that no one can't feel some moral outrage within from the humanitarian crisis upon Palestinians here, especially take into account 80 years of land expansion and land stealing by the Israeli state.

   For example, can you justify Israel's land expansionism onto Palestinian lands? Can you also justify why Israel advertises to New York Jews or others from the western world to come over to Israel, after they deported many Palestinians towards the west bank and Gaza?

   You sound like this YouTuber here:

 

 

 

[Guest Tobia]

@Lila9

2 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Rasicm is more than that.

If the prime minister of a nation tweets this (and then deletes it), there is profound racism at the highest levels.

If people like Ben Gvir and Smothrich (openly genocidal, called for destroying palestinian communities) are important ministers, there is some dark stuff going on.

This is racism in the most blatant form

Edited October 17, 2023 by Tobia

[Leo Gura]

It's more accurate to call it ethnocentrism and nationalism.

[Guest Tobia]

@Leo Gura for Ben Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, those words are not enough. Teocratic, fascist, openly genocidal policies and ideas

[Breakingthewall]

It's apartheid because Palestinians cannot vote in the Israeli elections, they also do not have the same rights as the Jews in the occupied territories, they can be abused and murdered with almost impunity.

But in the vote issue it cannot be any other way because otherwise Israel would disappear, and if they are allowed to be a sovereign state, you are creating a sovereign state whose basic principle is your destruction. It's one thing to be good and another to be stupid. If the problem were simple, it would already be solved, but it is extremely complicated.  

If we add to that that so many years of fight produce more and more fanatical Jews, the problem is impossible. Foreign mediation, especially Muslim, is essential, like what Saudi Arabia tried to do, and Iran prevented, to avoid war on a larger scale

[Guest Tobia]

@Breakingthewall

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's one thing to be good and another to be stupid. If the problem were simple, it would already be solved, but it is extremely complicated.  

This is simply an excuse. In fact, the solution was clear much before Hamas and its radicalization. The entire world agreed what the solution was many decades ago.

The solution was however too inconvenient for Israeli interests and especially its religious right wingers.

The Times of Israel and Haaretz are clear about Israel's direct sabotage of the fair resolution

Edited October 18, 2023 by Tobia