Why am i so annoyed at “mass”immigration

[PurpleTree]

obviously there are many good sides to immigration but also bad ones
 

I live in one of the western european countries which had a lot of immigration and refugees in the last decades

it’s something that triggers me almost everyday because there isn’t a way to get around it

i wish i could let it go, because i can’t do anything about it anyway

partly it’s my own stuff like coming from a broken-ish home, which probably makes me anxious-attached which causes scarcity mindset etc

but partly it’s also having some very bad experiences with some people who came from refugees and war torn areas

obviously i also had many good experiences with immigrants/former refugees etc

partly it’s that i think this mass immigrationnis making our countries worse, more violence etc people not respecting our cultures and not wanting to integrate

so i’m getting annoyed often, which causes me to struggle in my mind because i want to be a good person and not a xenophobe.

Then it looks like this inside me: getting/annoyed triggered, then i try to think i can’t change it, we’re all one, i’m god i made this on purpose, ugh but it’s so annoying, nono don’t think that, every human being is trying their best… but this and that blabla

i would like to let it go because it seems like a fight against windmills, how to let it go?

 

 

[sholomar]

We are genetically wired to be a herd species who would rather be around our own, because our own group keep us safer from predators and makes us feel more comfortable, generally speaking. If you dissect human behavior down to genetics, it all becomes so obvious, when you see DNA is the software that tends to drive certain behaviors among all species.

For me it's mostly what are we going to do with these people, how are we going to house them and feed them?  The economic strain from having too many parasites in a system has become evident post covid with central bank quantitative easing and the resulting supply chain and cost of living issues that have cropped up. More then that, you are often told to not feed the animals, because it makes them dependent on humans. Humans are a species of animal. They need to learn to be self sufficient, like other animal species, optimally.

The ruling class are pushing for mass immigration because they want inexpensive labor and replacement labor in nations that have low birth rates. My main criticism is no vetting. I'd prefer have the best and brightest in a society. I'm less compassionate than most here, and believe some must suffer and not be saved in order to make the collective stronger. The problems of infinite compassion start to manifest themselves in time with things like rises in crime and tent cities. There's no easy answer to all these problems given our nature. You need more housing, but to do that you need the manpower and zoning laws to build it. You want to reduce carbon emissions, yet you push population growth and economic expansion... again, no easy answers... only compromises. The theoretical socialist utopian society has a problem... It violates the natural laws that govern this universe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/business/sweden-economy-immigration.html

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by sholomar

[actuallyenlightened]

The main issue is how easy it is to get to Europe by crossing the Mediterranean and how the EU forces countries to accept them. If the governments only let people come in legally (ie not one gets to jump the line) I'm sure many of these issues would go away due to proper background checks, dealing with integration issues before accepting more people in, etc. 

This seems to be the main reason why many right winged parties are gaining traction in Europe and I suspect this would continue as long as the EU maintains its stance.

[itsadistraction]

You fear the death of your lifestyle (maybe quite rightly). It's similar to the fear of physical death of the body. 

Let it go. Be ok with handing your country over to immigrants. In a few decades you will be in the infinite again. 

[Schizophonia]

There is absolutely no benefit to mass immigration, 90% of crimes in France are committed by blacks or arabs.
I don't even make intrinsically racist inferences, you can rightly target sociological biases.
But that's the reality.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

20 hours ago, itsadistraction said:

You fear the death of your lifestyle (maybe quite rightly). It's similar to the fear of physical death of the body. 

Let it go. Be ok with handing your country over to immigrants. In a few decades you will be in the infinite again. 

It is all the more problematic when the newcomers are hostile to your culture, that of your land and your ancestors, when you have just allowed them to escape from their hôle.

[BlueOak]

If you genuinely want to let it go:

Stop making your identity your culture.

Or if you want an easier step

Stop making your cultural identity as important in your life.

If it's race, insert race, if its skin color insert that. Then you've just got personality, behaviors and things like economic pressures to consider. Personality and behaviors, I treat their interactions universally so I don't care where someone came from or what their culture is. I've never cared about skin color, I was just brought up that way. I actually like interacting with a variety of things, so more cultures for me were always a benefit, even if social cohesion is less as a result. There is less social cohesion because more people make cultural identity an important part of their lives.

Then we hit economic reasons, or things like traffic, pollution, crime, landfills, public services etc - For me, population is the magnifier of every issue on the planet, apart from the economy. Population is certainly in my country a benefit to the economy, and one of the reasons for a looming recession is the lack of younger working-age people, relative to the older population not working. So I am, and always will be (till AI) eternally conflicted on population, but leaning in the direction of less is more.

When you've considered things like that, you can go back and celebrate your local culture, you just won't identify with it as much,
 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:21 PM, PurpleTree said:

people not respecting our cultures and not wanting to integrate

 

 

I'm curious what do you mean by this? In which ways they don't respect your culture?
 

 

On 10/8/2023 at 9:21 PM, PurpleTree said:

 

i would like to let it go because it seems like a fight against windmills, how to let it go?

 

 

Maybe you should try to travel to a Muslim country to start appreciating and understanding their perspective, what do you think?

[Schizophonia]

7 hours ago, BlueOak said:

If you genuinely want to let it go:

Stop making your identity your culture.

Or if you want an easier step

Stop making your cultural identity as important in your life.

If it's race, insert race, if its skin color insert that. Then you've just got personality, behaviors and things like economic pressures to consider. Personality and behaviors, I treat their interactions universally so I don't care where someone came from or what their culture is. I've never cared about skin color, I was just brought up that way. I actually like interacting with a variety of things, so more cultures for me were always a benefit, even if social cohesion is less as a result. There is less social cohesion because more people make cultural identity an important part of their lives.

Then we hit economic reasons, or things like traffic, pollution, crime, landfills, public services etc - For me, population is the magnifier of every issue on the planet, apart from the economy. Population is certainly in my country a benefit to the economy, and one of the reasons for a looming recession is the lack of younger working-age people, relative to the older population not working. So I am, and always will be (till AI) eternally conflicted on population, but leaning in the direction of less is more.

When you've considered things like that, you can go back and celebrate your local culture, you just won't identify with it as much,
 

You and the multiculturalists see "culture" as a spectacle, as if it were about bringing together people who eat tagine for lunch and others who eat cassoulet, lol.

No, in fact the problem is that there are people who are in favor of women being able to go out in bikinis, and others who are convinced for so-called theological reasons that they are whores and that they should be chastised.

 

[PurpleTree]

3 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

I'm curious what do you mean by this? In which ways they don't respect your culture?

They laugh about the weaknesses. I’ve seen that often when i went to a very multi cultural school. They don’t take the justice system very serious because it’s much less tough than in their home countries. 
Selling drugs to kids, stealing, threatening
etc

3 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

Maybe you should try to travel to a Muslim country to start appreciating and understanding their perspective, what do you think?

I have and i like it, i like the food and some of the culture but i find it weird that women are lesss present there (not the same in all muslim countries)

but too many coming here is making this place worse imo.

i’m also not just talkig about muslims, even too many germans immigrating here is making the place worse imo

[BlueOak]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

You and the multiculturalists see "culture" as a spectacle, as if it were about bringing together people who eat tagine for lunch and others who eat cassoulet, lol.

No, in fact the problem is that there are people who are in favor of women being able to go out in bikinis, and others who are convinced for so-called theological reasons that they are whores and that they should be chastised.

 

Yes because they would both define their identity by their culture. I'll repeat if you want to escape that, do it less.

If you are asking how do we limit what you just said from being a problem at all, its a different conversation. It would be about respecting others' culture, and not imposing your own values onto them. Also valuing your own. Teaching that to children. Laws being created to allow for both. It would be about celebrating the differences rather than your own view of multiculturalism, an often problematic integration that seeks to blend both cultures. 

Your dismissal of food as a core principle of culture is itself flawed, as food is a huge part of many countries' cultures. It's not just the bits you find problematic to coexist with, its also the easily appreciated parts of culture such as festivals, art, food, language, and a diversity of ideas, and solutions to common problems. 

The finer points of law can be difficult to govern by, but the more complicated a law, often the less just it is because it imposes too many limiting self-biases over a large population.

In short for a multicultural society to function, you let people live their lives according to their own beliefs and value systems. Legislate as best and broadly as possible for both groups and allow those cultures to be the genesis of what comes next, a natural acceptance or at least tolerance in children of both viewpoints. Of course, we soften the extreme ends of a problem, we always do with everything. Yet it has come around again in modern times that people have decided the extreme end of something is a tool to govern or address it, and that creates the viewpoint you've given me here. That there is something inherently wrong with two different beliefs about what someone should wear at a beach.

Control is the shadow most expressed in the current (two) decades. Lack of control or controlling others. There is no need, there is only a need for both to be allowed to exist together. *Additionally, to reinforce this concept: The celebration of each culture, and the maintaining of it, can help remove fears of people losing theirs.

Edited October 11, 2023 by BlueOak

[itsadistraction]

The best way to move the world up the Spiral Dynamics spectrum is have immigrants from less developed countries live in a more development countries. 

Since downward movement on the spectrum is rare, the immigrants will probably be made to move up. Thus bringing the whole world up the spiral. 

Trust the universe 

[PurpleTree]

33 minutes ago, itsadistraction said:

 

Trust the universe 

Give me your belongings and your apartment/house

trust that the universe will do something good with it

[zazen]

36 minutes ago, itsadistraction said:

The best way to move the world up the Spiral Dynamics spectrum is have immigrants from less developed countries live in a more development countries. 

Since downward movement on the spectrum is rare, the immigrants will probably be made to move up. Thus bringing the whole world up the spiral. 

Trust the universe 

Unless of course they aren't integrated and instead become ghettoised and entrenched even further in their belief systems as they echo chamber themselves into tribes. In their home country they have a sense of belonging, and with the internet can maybe dabble in alternative views and values, but in the West, they feel foreign, and can possibly double down instead on their heritage as to avoid the cognitive dissonance caused by a clash of values.

In fact, some behave far more regressively conservatively than the people in their own heritage countries who behave more progressively in an attempt to emulate western values.