New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

@Merkabah Star Confront my claim to the point. 

No healing possible for them as long as hamas is in charge.

 

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

@Lila9 half the population being children is an insane amount of the population. 
 

They are in an open aired prison. Of course they hate Israel. 
 

why would they love them? 
 

they are choiceless victims. 
 

ceasefire now is the only humane thing Israel can do. 
 

 

 

 

You probably don't care about Palestinian children. If you did, you would have wanted Hamas to be eliminated and replaced with good and conscious leadership that could build a haven for these children, a modern and democratic Palestine with human rights, women's rights, and LGBTQ rights. Currently, a Palestinian can be executed in the blink of an eye for being gay or wearing short pants if she's a woman. A Palestinian can face execution for criticizing Hamas or not following Sharia law. Is that the type of society you wish for the Palestinians?

This 'open air prison' wouldn't be a prison if it weren't dangerous for Israel. Israel has the right to put boundaries between them and those who want to harm them. All they need to do is to stop the terror against Israel and all the bounderies would be diminished, no checkpoints in every corner are included. This is that simple.

If Hamas truly and really wants a ceasefire, they should start by bringing back all the hostages and not breaking the ceasefire, as they did recently. They are not serious.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Danioover9000 If I judge on tonality the interviewer (podcast owner empanada) who was against Israel in this debate was very nervous and cutted Aziz all the fucking time in the middle of sentences, And at the end kicked him out the interview just because he doesn't like his claims.

@Lila9 Thank you! 😊

   Really? That seemed more like fake John Aziz cutting Badempanada far more, and his tone is emotional bitchy and defensive. BadEmpanada is the level headed one.

[zazen]

@Nivsch @Danioover9000  Speaking on a Palestinian supporting the Israeli side or Israeli the Palestinian side, here is an Israeli who shows the Palestinian side very well. I think its been shared here before. It’s 10min but worth listening.

I think when people say pro Israeli or pro Palestinian we automatically think that means anti the other side but it could just mean you support peace for all except you see one side as being the more aggrieved and wronged side.

Edited December 9, 2023 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

   Calm down starboy, don't pick on @Nivsch and @Lila9 at the same time. Why? Cuz they'll hug and cry, 69 together with nine Sixers real dry. Niche up and down 96 inches, then pincer each head scissored, bedridden in Dan's den riddled with Debbie's remains in it.

@Merkabah Star, the polite nice kingdom, compared to me, you make me the morning star, the morning glory, to your lack of morning wood. Stark contrast in this dark valley, your kingdom sunken, mine sunders up to sunshine, Lucifer to this Satan.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

11 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Nivsch @Danioover9000  Speaking on a Palestinian supporting the Israeli side or Israeli the Palestinian side, here is an Israeli who shows the Palestinian side very well. I think its been shared here before. It’s 10min but worth listening.

I think when people say pro Israeli or pro Palestinian we automatically think that means anti the other side but it could just mean you support peace for all except you see one side as being the more aggrieved and wronged side.

   Yeah that post is good, I've seen it. That person was a Zionist and is now a pro Palestinian. I can tell there's some anger when he speaks, tensoon on his face and eyebrows. It must be emotionally difficult realization to have been supporting one side doing the slow genocide of the other.

[Nivsch]

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

You probably don't care about Palestinian children. If you did, you would have wanted Hamas to be eliminated and replaced with good and conscious leadership that could build a haven for these children, a modern and democratic Palestine with human rights, women's rights, and LGBTQ rights. Currently, a Palestinian can be executed in the blink of an eye for being gay or wearing short pants if she's a woman. A Palestinian can face execution for criticizing Hamas or not following Sharia law. Is that the type of society you wish for the Palestinians?

This 'open air prison' wouldn't be a prison if it weren't dangerous for Israel. Israel has the right to put boundaries between them and those who want to harm them. All they need to do is to stop the terror against Israel and all the bounderies would be diminished, no checkpoints in every corner are included. This is that simple.

If Hamas truly and really wants a ceasefire, they should start by bringing back all the hostages and not breaking the ceasefire, as they did recently. They are not serious.

Exactly.

[Nivsch]

@zazen Please see 3 or 4 pages backwards I wrote what I think about that video.

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

40 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

You probably don't care about Palestinian children. If you did, you would have wanted Hamas to be eliminated and replaced with good and conscious leadership that could build a haven for these children, a modern and democratic Palestine with human rights, women's rights, and LGBTQ rights. Currently, a Palestinian can be executed in the blink of an eye for being gay or wearing short pants if she's a woman. A Palestinian can face execution for criticizing Hamas or not following Sharia law. Is that the type of society you wish for the Palestinians?

This 'open air prison' wouldn't be a prison if it weren't dangerous for Israel. Israel has the right to put boundaries between them and those who want to harm them. All they need to do is to stop the terror against Israel and all the bounderies would be diminished, no checkpoints in every corner are included. This is that simple.

If Hamas truly and really wants a ceasefire, they should start by bringing back all the hostages and not breaking the ceasefire, as they did recently. They are not serious.

   Say HAMAs did that, released hostages, honored the ceasefire, will Israel stop? Will Israel stop expanding into Palestinian territory? Into West Bank and Gazs? Will Israel get rid of the alt right Zionists leading Israel?

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen Please see 3 or 4 pages backwards I wrote what I think about that video.

   Please see 3 or 4 pages backwards to your post, quote it and show @zazen. Burden of proof is on you in that specific exchange.

[Parallax Mind]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Lila9

   Say HAMAs did that, released hostages, honored the ceasefire, will Israel stop? Will Israel stop expanding into Palestinian territory? Into West Bank and Gazs? Will Israel get rid of the alt right Zionists leading Israel?

 @Danioover9000 nobody is saying Isreal is perfect or will ever be perfect. Isreal is way better than Hammas controlled Palestine and should therefore be supported if one is forced to choose sides (which we aren't). 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Parallax Mind

[Nivsch]

14 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Lila9

   Say HAMAs did that, released hostages, honored the ceasefire, will Israel stop? Will Israel stop expanding into Palestinian territory? Into West Bank and Gazs? Will Israel get rid of the alt right Zionists leading Israel?

Won't stop the war because the virus must be eliminated if you want any hope and future for Gazans without a tyrranic brainwashing cult controlling them.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Parallax Mind

5 minutes ago, Parallax Mind said:

 @Danioover9000 nobody is saying Isreal is perfect or will ever be perfect. Isreal is way better than Hammas controlled Palestine and should therefore be supported if one is forced to choose sides (which we aren't). 

   Let's say we are forced to choose sides, and let's say that HAMAs did release hostages, did honor ceasefire, and Israel still wipes them out. Will Israel stop expanding into Palestinian territory in West bank and Gaza?

   BYW, is it genocide if Israel knew everh detail of a building before a missle strike, compared tk HAMAs missiles sometimes missing and they don't know exactly where to hit?

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Won't stop because the virus must be eliminated if you want any hope and future for Gazans.

   HAMAs is a virus now, not people? Okay, say HAMAs gets eliminated, does this stop Israel taking lands from Palestinians?

[Nivsch]

40 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nivsch

   HAMAs is a virus now, not people? Okay, say HAMAs gets eliminated, does this stop Israel taking lands from Palestinians?

Israel has responsibility to stop expanding the settlements, to declare on this officially from a position of strength after won the war in Gaza, and to initiate an agreement with the palestinians on an independent state for them surrounded by a security belt of 10-20 km depth with IDF forces in it, and see if they will want to negotiate or still be a serial peace refusal.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

On 07/12/2023 at 6:32 AM, Nivsch said:

If the settlements will stop from expanding and there will be an agreement the situation can be improved, but the palestinians has refused any proposal until now.

I found your response to the video. Lets look at why they refused the proposals by looking at the most generous offer in 2000 being the Camp David one from Ehud Barack. 

1. Barak offered the Palestinians 96% of Israel’s definition of the West Bank, meaning they did not include any of the areas already under Israeli control, such as settlements, the Dead Sea, and large parts of the Jordan Valley. This meant that Barak effectively annexed 10% of the West Bank to Israel, with an additional 8-12% remaining under “temporary” Israeli control for a period of time.

In return for this annexation, Palestinians would be offered 1% of desert land near the Gaza Strip. Thus, Palestinians would need to give up 10% of the most fertile land in the West Bank, in exchange for 1% of desert land. Not to mention that if the past record is any indicator, the additional 8-12% under “temporary” Israeli control would remain so forever.

2. Israel demanded permanent control of Palestinian airspace, three permanent military installations manned by Israeli troops in the West Bank, Israeli presence at Palestinian border crossings, and special “security arrangements” along the borders with Jordan which effectively annexed additional land.

3. Israel would be allowed to invade at any point in cases of “emergency”. As you can imagine, what constituted an emergency was left incredibly vague and up to interpretation. The Palestinian state would be demilitarized, and the Palestinian government would not be able to enter into alliances without Israeli permission. 

4. Regarding Jerusalem,  Israel refused any form of Palestinian sovereignty over the majority of the city, including many Palestinian neighbourhoods.

5. Regarding right of return, it offered a very limited return for a very limited number of refugees over a very long period of time.

None of these are ingredients for the creation of an actual sovereign state which meet the basic definitions of a sovereign state and the minimum international standards of one . The nerve, arrogance and entitlement to displace inhabitants from their land then negotiate with them about their land and offer such proposals is a insult to their dignity and intelligence.

Ultimately, this “generous offer” amounted to turning the West Bank into non-unified districts, crisscrossed by a network of settlements, roads and Israeli areas. Even the supposed “capital” of the Palestinian state would mostly be under Israeli control, with stipulations and conditions that stripped any real sovereignty from any area of the supposed Palestinian “state”.

Not even the sky above Palestinian heads would be under their control, nor the water under their feet, as Israel still demanded access to water resources under the West Bank. Palestinian aspirations cannot be allowed to exceed the ceiling of Israeli's deluded entitlements. Israel is not really conceding anything through these offers; ending its occupation and stopping its settlement activities is merely following international law. It is not a sacrifice - it should be the default position.

This is how all of the “generous” Israeli peace offers play out. The majority of people who hear about this on the news have no clue what the parameters of the offer are. All they hear is that the Palestinians have rejected yet another “peace” initiative by Israel which gets spun as them being stupid bloodthirsty savages. This is why the discourse always focuses on the number of offers, because it distracts from their content and unviability.

Edited December 9, 2023 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

37 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Israel has responsibility to stop expanding the settlements, to declare on this officially from a position of strength after won the war in Gaza, and to initiate an agreement with the palestinians on an independent state for them surrounded by a security belt of 10-20 km depth with IDF forces in it, and see if they will want to negotiate or still be a serial peace refusal.

   Okay, Israel has responsibility to stop expanding the settlements, to declare on this officially after winning the war, and initiate agreements with Palestinians on Independent state but surrounded by a 'security belt' of 10-20 km depth with IDF forces in it, so firstly why would they agree to such demands? And secondly, if Israel keeps on expanding their settlements, and their declaration and ceasefire was a lie, what can the Palestinians do??? Because most of the government is leading by alt right Zionists, who want to genocide the Palestinians, so how could you deal with them??

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

37 minutes ago, zazen said:

I found your response to the video. Lets look at why they refused the proposals by looking at the most generous offer in 2000 being the Camp David one from Ehud Barack. 

1. Barak offered the Palestinians 96% of Israel’s definition of the West Bank, meaning they did not include any of the areas already under Israeli control, such as settlements, the Dead Sea, and large parts of the Jordan Valley. This meant that Barak effectively annexed 10% of the West Bank to Israel, with an additional 8-12% remaining under “temporary” Israeli control for a period of time.

In return for this annexation, Palestinians would be offered 1% of desert land near the Gaza Strip. Thus, Palestinians would need to give up 10% of the most fertile land in the West Bank, in exchange for 1% of desert land. Not to mention that if the past record is any indicator, the additional 8-12% under “temporary” Israeli control would remain so forever.

2. Israel demanded permanent control of Palestinian airspace, three permanent military installations manned by Israeli troops in the West Bank, Israeli presence at Palestinian border crossings, and special “security arrangements” along the borders with Jordan which effectively annexed additional land.

3. Israel would be allowed to invade at any point in cases of “emergency”. As you can imagine, what constituted an emergency was left incredibly vague and up to interpretation. The Palestinian state would be demilitarized, and the Palestinian government would not be able to enter into alliances without Israeli permission. 

4. Regarding Jerusalem,  Israel refused any form of Palestinian sovereignty over the majority of the city, including many Palestinian neighbourhoods.

5. Regarding right of return, it offered a very limited return for a very limited number of refugees over a very long period of time.

None of these are ingredients for the creation of an actual sovereign state which meet the basic definitions of a sovereign state and the minimum international standards of one . The nerve, arrogance and entitlement to displace inhabitants from their land then negotiate with them about their land and offer such proposals is a insult to their dignity and intelligence.

Ultimately, this “generous offer” amounted to turning the West Bank into non-unified districts, crisscrossed by a network of settlements, roads and Israeli areas. Even the supposed “capital” of the Palestinian state would mostly be under Israeli control, with stipulations and conditions that stripped any real sovereignty from any area of the supposed Palestinian “state”.

Not even the sky above Palestinian heads would be under their control, nor the water under their feet, as Israel still demanded access to water resources under the West Bank. Palestinian aspirations cannot be allowed to exceed the ceiling of Israeli's deluded entitlements. Israel is not really conceding anything through these offers; ending its occupation and stopping its settlement activities is merely following international law. It is not a sacrifice - it should be the default position.

This is how all of the “generous” Israeli peace offers play out. The majority of people who hear about this on the news have no clue what the parameters of the offer are. All they hear is that the Palestinians have rejected yet another “peace” initiative by Israel which gets spun as them being stupid bloodthirsty savages. This is why the discourse always focuses on the number of offers, because it distracts from their content and unviability.

   Facts, even I see how disproportionate those offers are. Unbelievable how the USA keeps backing Israel over Palestine. We need Jesus Christ to resurrect back again to flip some tables some more.

[Danioover9000]

   Nice video again by badempanada:

   Ya'll just sleeping on this man.

[kenway]

"When asked about the images, IDF spokesman Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari seemed to confirm that the men had been taken prisoner but did not clarify whether those pictured were members of Hamas or civilians."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/08/footage-idf-israel-military-parading-palestinian-men-around-in-underwear