New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Lol these terrorists have butchered innocent men, women elderly and children, they have committed great atricorcy. Fat privileged and wealthy Hamas terrorists.

Not only that, they also steal humanitarian aid from the Palestinians of Gaza and sell it in high prices. All the money and aid comes to Gaza ends in their greedy hands.

People here cannot even agree when I call hamas a "virus". They insist they are people! Thats what important right now in their eyes.

So you expect them to admit a truth in a five sentences length explanation? A waste of time.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

@Nivsch Please could you translate what this IDF solider is saying? I'm genuinely interested in his perspective. (For balance etc).

 

[zazen]

23 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

People here even cannot agree to call hamas a "virus".

Unlike bacteria, viruses are not considered living organisms because they cannot carry out essential life processes on their own. Instead, they rely on the host cells to replicate and reproduce. The host that empowered it and causes it to exist is your habibi Bibi Netenyahu and the conditions of the Palestinians.

23 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

They insist they are people! Thats what important right now in their eyes.

You mock forum user's who I think are balanced and not ill intentioned but then say things like this. The first step in resolving a issue is to not dehumanise the other but understand the cause and chain of events that lead them to their actions. The overton window has shifted so far right in Israeli society that neutral or centrist takes are considered unbalanced it seems.

''So you expect them to admit a five sentences explanatiom length? ''

I replied to you with much more than 5 sentences - in fact I responded with 5 points on why the 'best' peace proposal of Camp David wasn't good enough in meeting such basic criteria of a state to which you haven't even responded. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen Don't run from constructive critisism and return it back onto me even if it sounds a bit edgy to you, and rather confront the claims directly. The explanation about the virus vs bacteria sounds serious in your opinion?

Insisting hamas are "people" and "not a virus" is a symptom to a bigger problem here. Thats because of the need one feels to deffend hamas terrorists even if done only through teminology this is very problematic.

I am not saying you did that and maybe I had to respond directly to the one who did it and anyway there is nothing personal here.

Camp david message is quite long I will answer to this. Netanyahu is also to blame in the fact he have let hamas get stronger as a purpose strategy to avoid negotiation with the palestinian authority.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

24 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen Don't run from constructive critisism and return it back onto me even if it sounds a bit edgy to you, and rather confront the claims directly. The explanation about the virus vs bacteria sounds serious in your opinion?

Insisting hamas are "people" and "not a virus" is a symptom to a bigger problem here. Thats because of the need one feels to deffend those people even if done only through teminology this is very problematic.

Don't invent things I did which I didn't 🙂

Camp david message is quite long I will answer to this. Netanyahu is also to blame in the fact he have let hamas get stronger as a purpose strategy to avoid negotiation with the palestinian authority.

You lost all respect on this forum with your virus comment. All you do is run around in circles and haven’t got a clue. You are no better than nazi Germans, who I’m sure referred to Jewish and Gypsy people as viruses. 
 

as for @Lila9 your posts are so whiney and flat now it’s impossible to reply to them. 
 

 

[Nivsch]

@Merkabah Star 

hamas terrorists as a virus analogy is correct.

Nobody said that word about palestinians.

Don't gaslight please.

Not gonna reduce myself to your message's level 🙂

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Utterly naive black & white thinking.

And twisted.

Reality proved to be many times just the opposite.

   What is twisted about @zazen's post? here:

'The one way Westerners are made unsafe in their homes is by unconditional support to Israel which invokes more extremism. The one way we can all be safe including Israel is by coming to a decent peace proposal.'.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

People here cannot even agree when I call hamas a "virus". They insist they are people! Thats what important right now in their eyes.

So you expect them to admit a truth in a five sentences length explanation? A waste of time.

   I merely said HAMAs were people one time mate. Okay, I'll call them humans or freedom fighters then. Also, why call them a virus? They don't resemble anything like a virus, from the robotic structure to RNA capable of changing the DNA coding of the cell the virus infects. If HAMAs were viruses we'd be in serious trouble, like Israel would be overrun by copies of HAMAs all over the place, even other Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Turkey, much of Iraq and Iran, the whole middle east, an actual human sized virus is a big existential threat to humanity and the world. Not sure HAMAs is on that level of existential crisis of the world.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

55 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@zazen Don't run from constructive critisism and return it back onto me even if it sounds a bit edgy to you, and rather confront the claims directly. The explanation about the virus vs bacteria sounds serious in your opinion?

Insisting hamas are "people" and "not a virus" is a symptom to a bigger problem here. Thats because of the need one feels to deffend hamas terrorists even if done only through teminology this is very problematic.

I am not saying you did that and maybe I had to respond directly to the one who did it and anyway there is nothing personal here.

Camp david message is quite long I will answer to this. Netanyahu is also to blame in the fact he have let hamas get stronger as a purpose strategy to avoid negotiation with the palestinian authority.

   But you ran from his criticism first?

   Why would some insist calling HAMAs 'people' and not a 'virus'? Have you heard of the terms dehumanization, demonization and thought terminating cliches? By calling a human group a 'virus' knowing that most society hate viruses and illness, and not 'people' or 'human' you created a psychological distancing and disassociation, you just made people feel disgust and more hatred for HAMAs and other groups like them, which makes negotiations with them harder when you think of them as 'viruses' and not 'people'. In fact Nazi Germany did just that, slowly ramped up anti-semitic, making the population associate their fall with the Jews, make the Jews less 'human', and less of a 'people', and more of a 'virus' to get rid of.

[Merkabah Star]

27 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Merkabah Star 

hamas terrorists as a virus analogy is correct.

Nobody said that word about palestinians.

Don't gaslight please.

Not gonna reduce myself to your message's level 🙂

What you deem as Hamas and Palestinians seems blurred to me, I’ve been reading this thread from the start. So yes, your virus concept is not exclusive to the terrorist group. You don’t fool me. 

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

33 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Merkabah Star 

hamas terrorists as a virus analogy is correct.

Nobody said that word about palestinians.

Don't gaslight please.

Not gonna reduce myself to your message's level 🙂

   Fine, keep that metaphor and analogy for you. I'll restore balance to be fair, I'll agree that HAMAs are viruses, and Israel is a parasite in that region, living off of land they colonized, pissing off HAMAs but much of the Islam world in that region, fair enough?

Edited December 9, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Merkabah Star]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nivsch

   Fine, keep that metaphor and analogy for you. I'll restore balance to be fair, I'll agree that HAMAs are viruses, and Israel is a parasite in that region, living off of land they colonized, fair enough?

He throws out the virus word to deflect emotionally from the fact Israel is killing thousands of innocent children and adults, so he justifies it, like the nazis did with the Jews, by making them subhuman. All blame for children and civilians dying is put on the virus only. Israel are the victim. And like any virus it spreads fast. So it’s not just the terrorists, it’s the parents of the dead children for not teaching them to love Israel, then they are deemed part of the virus. 
 

this is a genocide. Labelling people a virus is genocidal and just fuels the bloodbath. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

5 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

He throws out the virus word to deflect emotionally from the fact Israel is killing thousands of innocent children and adults, so he justifies it, like the nazis did with the Jews, by making them subhuman. All blame for children and civilians dying is put on the virus only. Israel are the victim. And like any virus it spreads fast. So it’s not just the terrorists, it’s the parents of the dead children for not teaching them to love Israel, then they are deemed part of the virus. 
 

this is a genocide. Labelling people a virus is genocidal and just fuels the bloodbath. 

 

   Yes it can be. It's a combination of dehumanizing, scape goat, and playing the race or the victim card here.

   I think at best it's just being bad faith, straw manning and misrepresenting by negative generalization. And to be fair, if he calls them names or starts demonizing, while we're all talking and conversing at least, and at most debating/arguing then it's justifiable to reflect that bad faith. Or remain good faith. Yes, it's partly 'genocidal', but more likely it's just dehumanization, and negative stereotyping and caricature. It's like we can't get anti-semitic here and that's okay, but then the other side gets to be Islamophobic and negatively stereotype Palestinians and Muslims?  

[kenway]

1 minute ago, Merkabah Star said:

He throws out the virus word to deflect emotionally from the fact Israel is killing thousands of innocent children and adults, so he justifies it, like the nazis did with the Jews, by making them subhuman. All blame for children and civilians dying is put on the virus only. Israel are the victim. And like any virus it spreads fast. So it’s not just the terrorists, it’s the parents of the dead children for not teaching them to love Israel, then they are deemed part of the virus. 
 

this is a genocide. Labelling people a virus is genocidal and just fuels the bloodbath. 

 

 

I agree with this. 

There is clearly a mass delusion going on right now where many political zionists simply cannot accept the notion that they are now "the bad guys".

But what Israel is doing right now is truly one of the most evil things that we, as human beings, have ever done. And because of that, Israel will ultimately collapse. Not because of any rockets, or missiles, or guns or tanks...but for the weight of it's own heartbreak when it realises what it has done to its own brothers and sisters.

You will drown by the tears of your own remorse.

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

as for @Lila9 your posts are so whiney and flat now it’s impossible to reply to them. 

You just have no response because you know I'm correct. For you it's easier to attack me personally by saying that I'm whiney and flat rather than responding to the matter. Gotcha.

[Merkabah Star]

4 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

You just have no response because you know I'm correct. For you it's easier to attack me personally by saying that I'm whiney and flat rather than responding to the matter. Gotcha.

No. I just have standards. Yeah. 😀

[Lila9]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Exactly. And they are complaining we want to put an end to hamas while sitting in their (yet) safe home at the foot of the mountain from which they just moralize and throw instructions to Israel and to the 20 yo half-kids who are risking their lives right now. How low of a behaviour and how low self awareness.

Lol, their perception is indeed comes from ignorance and lack of real life experience of the conflict. All the info they gather is from biased X accounts. Intresting.

[Merkabah Star]

I’m sure most people commenting on this thread have been calling out Israel for human rights violations and this occupation issue for some time. It’s not their first rodeo. 

[Nivsch]

42 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Lol, their perception is indeed comes from ignorance and lack of real life experience of the conflict. All the info they gather is from biased X accounts. Intresting.

I would never dare to demonize an entire society without even visiting there and hearing its people firsthand, not to cherry pick some Rabi or an extreme leftist. This is just a matrix of stories and images in the mind of the demonizer without knowing how far it is from reality. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

Quote

Israelis aren't seeing the devastating pictures Australians see from the war in Gaza. They're watching a sanitised war

This is the tale of two wars. 

There are two wars going on in Gaza right now — the one the Israeli public is watching and the one the rest of the world is watching.

Each evening, Israelis are sitting down to watch their prime-time television news programs to see what happened that day in this war.

And each evening, the pattern is much the same — night after night pictures of Israeli soldiers walking through streets of Gaza; Israeli tanks driving across fields in Gaza; interviews with families of hostages taken by Hamas on October 7; a military progress update by Israel's Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari.

There will rarely, if ever, be a picture of a Palestinian. If there is, it will likely be a picture of a Hamas commander. The Palestinians portrayed are terrorists, not civilians who are victims. Watching Hebrew-language TV at night over recent weeks, I've never seen a Palestinian victim of Israel's attack on Gaza.

It's the whole Israeli media, not just television. The newspapers – with the exception of Ha'aretz – are much the same. Thursday's edition of the mass-selling centre-right Yedioth Ahronoth, for example, had page after page on the war – I counted 50 war-related pictures of Israelis, including seven on page 1.

There was one picture of a Palestinian – Hamas commander Yahya Sinwar.

And social media – as social media does around the world – gives Israelis the feeds they want.

All of which means that most Israelis do not see pictures of injured Palestinian women and children or the destruction of Gaza into kilometre after kilometre of rubble to the point where it will be difficult to rebuild it.

They will rarely if ever see a child trapped in that rubble, or a mother carrying her dead baby. They don't see the screaming children, or the toddlers who cannot open their eyes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-10/israel-gaza-media-watching-a-sanitised-war/103206528