New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

@kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵‍💫

Edited January 19 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

16 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

A great achievement to Israel.

EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire.

Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to.

Wow! Finally 🙌

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, jaylimix said:

But don't forget that there are many people on the other side that are now rallying behind Israel because of how the world responded after Oct 7.

- Denial of atrocities

- Silence on sexual crimes

- Laughed about atrocities

- Flip evil around and projected the evils of Hamas onto Israel

- Media blackout on Muslim countries to side with the Palestinians

- Want the destruction of a secular democracy and chose instead the survival of an Islamic terrorist state. Think the PLO is any better than Hamas? Think again. Heard of Pay-to-Slay? https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768735

- Made Israelis and Jews felt demonized and all alone, angry and sad. https://x.com/mewapawa/status/1748254131247284437?s=20

This is so accurate, I'm frustrated with human stupidity and irrationality.

How can modern humans favor a radical, deadly Islamic terrorist organization over a secular democracy? It requires a twisted perception of reality.

It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back.

[Lila9]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:24 AM, zazen said:

 

Lol, what a gross projection and distortion of reality. Look in front of your eyes, why you ignore what Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists organization do to Palestinians and Israelies?

 

[Lila9]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, Nivsch said:

@Lila9 Everyone here talks from his or her trauma and childhood experience and this is what determines their side in this conflict basically.

The fact though is that Israel did everything to avoid this war. From a billion dollars smart fence, through 1000s of work permission to Gazans in Israel and millions of dollar poured on Gaza with Israel permission.

However Gaza was already saturated from wealth and money and could be the second Dubai, but it didnt help since every dollar was directed into terror.

Absolutely. They have responsibility to be better, it's not Israel's responsibility to indoctrinate them from their deadly dogma which honors death and terror over their lives and the lives of their children. This ideology is greater than themselves and is spread across he middle east. 

Israel's responsibility is to do everything to protect its people from its enemies and do what it can to promote peace. If there is no partner on the other side who wants peace, as it was already proved so many times that Palestinians and the Arab world don't give a genuine shit about peace and see Israel as a state of subhuman Jews pigs who don't deserve to live autonomously, but only under Islamic rules, then there is nothing Israel can do about it.

It's up to them to leave the victim mentality, develop, improve and be better humans.

[kenway]

18 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵‍💫

UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF?

Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you?

 

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back.

It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other.

[kenway]

@Nivsch

@Lila9

Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for?

You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency.

The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct?

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by kenway

[Lila9]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

Considering they got their land stolen and treated like shit for decades  they act quite civilized I think. Switch your place with theirs for some months then talk.

Not stolen, Jews were in Israel and lived in Israel for thousands of years.

Even if Palestinians believe that their land was stolen, commiting deadly terror attacks rape, beheading, burning people alive, cutting stomaches doesn't justify this.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

So you suggest they bow down to the thieves that took their land? Most people tend to fight hard for their land. Look at Ukraine. I do not see them bowing down to Russia.

No, just to do the minimum and try to find solutions without killing? I think that would be enough.

Currently Russia stands with Hamas and supports it, which implies about the similarities between the two. Both of them believe in war for resolving territory issues over communication and negotiation, both of them started the wars and not surprisingly they are good allies with North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, and all the most "good" and "advanced", "developed", "stage green+", if not "turquoise" (I thought that maybe yellow would be an insult for them because they are so so developed), countries in the human society who never violated human rights... Interesting 🤔

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

The West Bank authority would be down for that if they got some normal terms. Meaning 50/50 split.

But will they stop the terror attacks? I don't think so.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

There are countless articles from respectable sources saying so. If you want to ignore them that is on you

Very likely came from anti-Israel biased sources who simp Hamas.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

The Hamas that your Neo Hitler Leader Benjamin has openly supported and founded? Interesting...

If any way to negotiate doesn't work, money must work, in his stage organge capitalist perception. He tried to bribe them, thinking that he can buy peace. This is his common tactic even in the internal Israel politics. He tried to prove to his loyal followers that he puts Hamas under control. It didn't work, obviously. A deadly Islamic ideology is stronger than money. Hate for Jews and the Israeli state is stronger than money. No matter how much Benjamin will try to bribe them, they will remain the same.

Mr. Benjamin is not a decent human being, which Israelies are trying to get rid of for a long time, he is a curropted leader, with many flaws, and together with his wife and sons, they obviously give the cringe, but Hitler? Lol, not.

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said:

If Israel minded its own business rather than steal land people would not be stuck in Gaza in the first place. From what I saw on the 1947 borders all the areas near Gaza were Palestine. All the areas Hamas attacked are Palestine. I am sorry for what happened to the people there but they do not belong to live there. It is stolen land. You can make the case about Israel existing but the UN plan of 1947 did not include all the areas near Gaza, the same areas Hamas attacked as Israel. Funny when thieves start crying once they are faced with the consequences of their theft.

This is the thing, that Israel minded its own business, was in attempt to create a state for Jews due to the persecution and the Holocoast.

The land was stolen from Jews before it was "stolen" from Arabs. Is stealing from the one who stealing from you is stealing?

What a philosophical question 🤔

 

[Lila9]

28 minutes ago, kenway said:

UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF?

Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you?

 

It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other.

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

[kenway]

21 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

But this is predicated on your relationship with Israel, and specifically, your belief that Israel is at war with Hamas, rather than Israel deliberately ethnically cleansing the Palestinian civilians. 

Exercise: If it became clear that the ‘war on hamas’ narrative was actually inaccurate, and rather intended to mask an ethnic cleansing campaign against Palestinian civilians, how would that modulate your position on Israel’s devilry relative to Hamas’s?

[Lila9]

37 minutes ago, kenway said:

@Nivsch

@Lila9

Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for?

You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency.

The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct?

 

 

 

Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. 

[kenway]

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. 

Thanks. I figured that might the case but I just thought I'd ask.

Appreciated.

[Bobby_2021]

17 hours ago, kenway said:

For example, how are you even defining the word "terrorist" or "terrorism"? When you say:-

All terrorists even look and act the same way. It's not that hard to define what a terrorist looks like. 

For example if Israel was a terrorist state, then you wouldn't be protesting here to stop the bombing. You can do that because there is chance that they might listen.

Actual terrorists do not care.

I am not going to bother defining a terrorist for you. It's willful ignorance.

There is standard definitions for terrorists groups and the states even have their list. What's in here that is worth philosophising about?

Israel is no angel and they have their share of terrorising Palestinians by flying jets above the speed of sound over their homes. In that case they should build a proper government, use the funding they get from Iran, among the supplies from UN to defend themselves instead of resorting to terrorism.

Hamas, Houthi, Hezbollah all are wings of Iran. They are looking for a reason to eliminate Israel. I wish they gets wiped off the map for good as the world could reach more stability.

I trust Israel to get it done. 

3 hours ago, jaylimix said:

Islamic States + Dictatorship + Communism

i.e.

Palestine/Iran + Russia + China + North Korea

This.

2020-29 decade has seen/seeing a temporary decline in globalism and these fringe powers are seeking to grab their pie in a dying attempt as the world moves on to more freedom and liberalism.

They absolutely hate that US is the leader of world and seek to dethrone them using cowardly tactics.

They know that there will be huge backlash from the world for inflicting such destruction on civilians so they choose to build bases right in the middle of civilian infrastructure. They are taking advantage of the liberal values we have and that's their last resort. That's cheap and cowardly. 

[Vrubel]

@Lila9

43 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. 

It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions.

 

 

Exactly, for how evil you think Israel is, Palestinian culture is pretty much rockbottom bankrupt. And with culture I don’t mean any of their Arabic quaintness but how you became a hero of the nation by killing innocent civilians. 
Then people are outraged that this war is so ugly and pamper the Palestinians because they fit their overly redundant narrative of a poor, oppressed people overlooking their absolute moral bankruptcy. You can’t have an honorable war with these kinds of people. In a more honorable situation a fighting party would do everything to save their women and children. They seem to do the exact opposite and glee when their own women and children are “martyred” and they get more pampering from international actors and thus encouraging them.

They totally swim in the compassion and level headedness of Israel and the world but they themselves hold to no standards. 
It’s obvious that 7/10 happened exactly because Palestinians knew they would not get genocided. 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

How can modern humans favor a radical, deadly Islamic terrorist organization over a secular democracy?

Israel is not a democracy because it does not respect human rights. A democracy treats all as equal. So it is not.

Also it kills far more so it gets more blame. Hamas killed 30 kids, IDF 10.000. Why should we hate on Hamas so much? 30 kids is nothing compared to 10.000. Therefore IDF is more hated.

Numbers matter.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF?

Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you?

UNICF, similar to UNRWA is a totally co operator with terror supporters. I am not an expert on that at all but I have read many evidents to that I will try to find a post I saw just couple of days ago. In meanwhile:

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/unicef-opt-continues-its-partnership-with-terror-tied-groups-and-other-disturbing-developments/

Edited January 19 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

Just now, kenway said:

But this is predicated on your relationship with Israel, and specifically, your belief that Israel is at war with Hamas, rather than Israel deliberately ethnically cleansing the Palestinian civilians. 

Exercise: If it became clear that the ‘war on hamas’ narrative was actually inaccurate, and rather intended to mask an ethnic cleansing campaign against Palestinian civilians, how would that modulate your position on Israel’s devilry relative to Hamas’s?

Israel isn't interested in ethnic cleansing, it's not its intention in this war. If Israel would have wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, they would have done that so much earlier. It's a war on our safety and future on this land. After October 7 attack the Israeli collective consciousness realized that it cannot longer live with Hamas, it's either them or us. This is a question of survival.

People here always talk about prior October 7 attack conception vs October 7 attack conception, there is a collective change in the conception. This word 'conception' is heavily used here, to empathize a paradigm shift Israelies are collectively going through.

If we thought that we could live with Hamas, somehow, or negociate with it, somehow, now it's clear that it's impossible, as they are passionate about destroying Israel, and nothing can change it. Nothing can be done to change it, no peace accords, no money, nothing. As so many times Israel tried to soften them, Benjamin, i.e., tried to bribe them. Now, after October 7, there is a collective realization that the only way, to ensure a sane survival and future for Israel, is by destroying Hamas before they destroy us.

 

 

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

how you became a hero of the nation by killing innocent civilians. 

Well those people are seen as thieves that stole their houses and killed them for decades.

So they are not innocent in their eyes. It is like Jews getting their hands on Nazi civilians after the holocaust, they would not hold back.

Even if Ukranians got their hands on Russian civilians at this point there would be atrocities even though Russia has not even done 1/10 to Ukraine what Israel has done to people in Gaza and for 35x the time lenght

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

A great achievement to Israel.

EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire.

Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to.

This is great news. 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

@Nivsch

@Lila9

Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for?

You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency.

The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct?

Paid? 😂

The last time I was "paid" by IDF was in 2009 when I got 100$ a month for the shoppings in the market in my base.