Posted January 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lila9 said: This is the conspiracy theory that you want to believe in, but has nothing to do with reality. Notice that in your view, all the people you consider "bad" (Zionists) were cooperating with the Nazis while the people you consider to be "good" (non-Zionists) were the victims of Nazis, this is a polished story to fit your narrative. I think that Japan were co-operating with US in WW2 and the atomic bomb was just a distruction from the REAL co-operation that we couldn't see because of the destruction Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Nivsch said: I think that Japan were co-operating with US in WW2 and the atomic bomb was just a distruction from the REAL co-operation that we couldn't see because of the destruction Israelis use the "Why dont Arabs take them, if they do not take them, it means they do not want them so they are bad" type of argument. Let me ask you this, why did Europeans kick out the Jews from Europe in the 1930s? Why they did not take them when they fled Germany? You do realize the Nazis used exactly the same arguments to justify their brutal policies, "Look these European countries do not want Jews either, therefore look how bad they are". How would you respond to this argument? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Karmadhi said: why did Europeans kick out the Jews from Europe in the 1930s? Do you mean Nazi germany. 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: You do realize the Nazis used exactly the same arguments to justify their brutal policies As long as you do this comparison you should not expect a willingness to discuss from any Israeli or a reasonable person here that I hope they won't fall into this trap. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, kenway said: I support a one-state solution shared by both Jews and Arabs predicated on a constitution defined by principles, rather than the current defacto ethnostate. Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values that will turn backwards women rights by centuries and maybe also will lead to the execution of LGBTQ. Ok. That is your opinion. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lila9 said: This is the freedom fighters that you hype. Terrorists are terrorists, not only dangerous to others, but also to their own people. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-steal-humanitarian-aid-received-from-intl-organisations-israel-defence-forces/articleshow/105870965.cms https://www.instagram.com/hnaftali/reel/C0wIk-esPns/ https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-stole-humanitarian-aid-sent-for-civilians-israel-defence-forces-gaza-war-101702174886917.html But hamas are angels freedom fighters that throw gays from rooftops that treatens their freedom, rape women for the freedom of sexuality and executed hundreds of PLO people to ensure their freedom in Gaza. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values that will turn backwards women rights by centuries and maybe also will lead to the execution of LGBTQ. Ok. That is your opinion. No. Providing it was done carefully and intelligently such protections would be a fundamental aspect of the protocol - that is to say embedded into the (principal-led) constitution by default, as well as policed by a more effective rebooted International legal system. You're thinking from a position of fear and prejudice. Besides, I don't think there is much alternative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 In any event, you still don't get it. Ontologically speaking you will experience the experience of all the Jews and you will experience the experience of all the Palestinians. That should be your guiding motivator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Do you mean Nazi germany. No I mean many European countries did not want to take the Jews that the Nazis kicked. Why so? I am not saying that Jews were bad, I am saying exactly that the argument "why dont these people take these guys" does not mean anything. Just like Jews were not bad and still Europe did not take them, Palestinians are not bad and Arabs do not take them. And unlike Jews in Europe back then, Palestinians have indeed their own land and state so no reason for them to leave on the first place. 59 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values I live in the West and I do not recall the government here to sterlize black women without their consent so they will not reproduce, the same way Israel did for Ethiopian Jews. Western values my ass... Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent | The Independent | The Independent Forced contraception of Jewish Ethopian women is tip of global iceberg | Lisa Hallgarten | The Guardian Some links from Western Media in case you do not believe me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Bernie Sanders urges Biden to revoke unconstrained financial support for Israel: 'Killing children is not the solution' Sen. Bernie Sanders says President Joe Biden needs to be tougher on Israel amid the war in Gaza. Sanders admonished Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who recently promised "nobody will stop us." 100 days into war, Israel's retaliation has killed nearly 24,000 Palestinians, 10,000 of them kids. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 24000 (~10,000 of them are hamas combatants) are the result of Israel's attacks on hamas and hamas's fortifications, combined with hamas's interest and constant efforts from day one to maximize civilians casualties as much as it can because this is their life's job in this war, because they know this is the only thing that can stop Israel from eliminating them. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 @Nivsch I wish that was enough to stop them. Apparently, nothing is going to stop Israel. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/right-now-it-is-one-day-at-a-time-life-on-israels-frontline-with-gaza Guardian Oct 10th - 2023 When talking about the maximisation of damage, let's try to keep things factual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Damage = material damage. 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) The more I think about this, the more I believe that it is not realistic for Israel to be super clean and respectful towards civilians when they were attacked by Hamas. The only solution to me, is for other powerful countries, including USA, Russia etc to basically force Israel into obeying international law. If someone murdered my friend, I would rush towards to kill them, it is not realistic for others to tell me, "get over it bro". But it is very realistic for others to stop me and hold me from doing so when I rush to kill him for murdering my friend. The same logic applies for Hamas ofc. Therefore, forcing Israel into obedience is the most realistic solution. The hurt person will not object to restraint, it is not realistic. However, I still think Israel has gone too far at this point. Killing 20x is overkill, but being totally clean is a bit not realistic. @Nivsch Edited January 15 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Having a break from this thread. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Damage = material damage. Hagari's statement clearly said whilst accuracy is considered the focus is more on the damage part of the operation. Naturally a lot of civilian death comes with damage and unnecessarily destroying buildings that aren't used by Hamas ie levelling the place to make it uninhabitable. This intention and goal seems to be clearer by the destruction of crops where food is grown. ''High resolution satellite imagery shows bulldozers were used to destroy fields and orchards. Tracks are visible, as well as mounds of earth on the edges of the former plots.” - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza#:~:text=The Israeli government is using,in Israeli forces' military operations. 1 hour ago, kenway said: Having a break from this thread. Peace. Above is why I took some time off. Saw the youtube video you shared earlier - didn't see anything propogandic about two guys walking around a neighbourhood even it was amongst a certain sect, neither was the way you shared it bad faith lol. The topic is a hypersensitive one to the ideological. Look forward to reading your insightful posts here again at some point. Edited January 15 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) @zazen Again I agree on problems and can discuss on them with an open mind. But In the big picture there is here an overreaction of the immune system in its fight against the highly sophisticated hamas virus. Nothing will change that. Let it sink a little bit. Agree or not, everything is OK you have the right to hold your opinion. My opinion won't change, not about the big picture. Edited January 16 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision and 2nd in Europe's public vote (May 11, 2024) 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
