New War In Israel / Gaza

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Thats exactly what IDF did.

If so, then I'm wrong, but for now it seems more like he's pretending to do that in the face of public opinion, but deliberately punishing civilians, everything will be analyzed in detail and then we can make an opinion based on the facts.

[DawnC]

47 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What horrible videos have you seen? I have read what they showed the journalists and it is horrible but it is not torture. It's possible that there have been, I don't deny it, I'm just interested in knowing the truth about that.

Unfortunately for me, since I'm interested in geopolitics and international relations, and I understand a little bit of Arabic, I was connected to Telegram channels before 7/10. I was exposed to original videos by Hamas in Telegram channels on 7/10. I saw kidnappings in brutal ways, executions, burned bodies, and body parts torn off. I saw a body torn apart from a brutal, ongoing beating. I saw naked women's bodies on a truck. I saw two burned bodies that were tied to a burning bed. There are evidence of body parts being cut off and brutal rapes, which I intentionally avoided. I think I'm emotionally stable, but this is just too much.

Edited November 3, 2023 by DawnC

[DawnC]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Then why pretend in the first place that they care about a peaceful two state solution?

There is a huge difference between having a desire to live peacefully with your neighbors and caring for them the same way you care about your own people.

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

Listen. Who is Iran posing a danger to? 

The Gulf countries, Middle Eastern nations, stability in the region, Ukraine, the US and Europe, along with Iran's secular and moderate populations—essentially, the Iranian regime poses a threat to the civilized world. Their entire belief system is built on opposing America and the West, and they are determined to gain control over their entire region. Ask yourself what made the Abraham Accords possible. The moderate Gulf countries understand this threat better than any of us.

[hundreth]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

I have seen videos of shootings and of a girl with the broken legs in a van, but the Israeli government insists on generalized torture, burning children alive and things like that, 3 days ago they said they were going to show images the next day, and then they didn't. Much of the anger towards Hamas is because of this, and it justifies the bombings for many. Would be interesting to know if it's true

There's many more videos than that. There's literally a video out there of Hamas surgically opening a pregnant women and pulling the baby out while the live mother is screaming in horror. Are you living under a rock? 

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, hundreth said:

There's many more videos than that. There's literally a video out there of Hamas surgically opening a pregnant women and pulling the baby out while the live mother is screaming in horror. Are you living under a rock? 

I wouldn't call not visiting weird websites to watch gore videos - living under a rock...

[hundreth]

10 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

I wouldn't call not visiting weird websites to watch gore videos - living under a rock...

There's no weird websites, many Hamas videos were widely circulated the day of the attack. They were all over, the combat footage subreddit made the front page. Breakingwall keeps suggesting reports of brutalities and torture by Hamas Israeli propaganda. If he's so interested in seeing the footage, it really isn't difficult.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

There's literally a video out there of Hamas surgically opening a pregnant women and pulling the baby out while the live mother is screaming in horror

If that is true, why has it not been talked about or shown as an example of Hamas's brutality? 

I guess you understand that it is easy to tie a guy charred by a bomb to the bed or upload a video of another massacre, but the reality is that the IDF has the cameras of the Hamas terrorists in their possession, and they have shown a selection of 45 minute images to journalists, and there is no torture 

https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2023/10/26/israeli-accounts-share-deceptive-video-accusing-hamas-of-killing-a-pregnant-woman

Edited November 3, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[hundreth]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If that is true, why has it not been talked about or shown as an example of Hamas's brutality? 

I guess you understand that it is easy to tie a guy charred by a bomb to the bed or upload a video of another massacre, but the reality is that the IDF has the cameras of the Hamas terrorists in their possession, and they have shown a selection of 45 minute images to journalists, and there is no torture 

https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2023/10/26/israeli-accounts-share-deceptive-video-accusing-hamas-of-killing-a-pregnant-woman

So this is the hill you want to die on? You're disputing Hamas' brutality? That's what you consider propaganda?

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Nasrallah appeared from his underground bunker addressing thousands of people who slept in the streets the past night waiting for him to speak.

He said the same bullshit he was expected to say when shit hit the fan. He said the attack was is purely Palestinian and that they already entered the war from the 2nd day.

So Nasrallah who threatened Israel every time he appeared with thousands of rockets and hitting nuclear sites can't do more than what he already did which is attack few empty villages here and there and injuring a soldier and exploding a radar and occasionally shelling a Syrian site instead of an Israeli one. That's it.

These guys are only good for killing their civilians and raping their women and producing Ceptagon. A dog never bites its tail and Nasrallah will never attack Israel. He will just keep this bs and rot and die someday when someone assassinate him thus ending his life without a single war where he actually attack Israel.

He appeared to say "you guys are on your own in Gaza" which is hopefully a good thing so people will understand Iran is not gonna fight Israel.

 

I've seen you post this sentiment quite a bit, that you're disappointed other Arab governments and terrorist organizations don't attack Israel.

Seems you really want to see an escalation. Am I reading you correctly? 

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

There's no weird websites, many Hamas videos were widely circulated the day of the attack. They were all over, the combat footage subreddit made the front page. Breakingwall keeps suggesting reports of brutalities and torture by Hamas Israeli propaganda. If he's so interested in seeing the footage, it really isn't difficult.

How come nobody here saw them, then? Even on reddit, I've only seen the one with the girl in the truck (although you can call reddit a weird website, imo).

I am not disputing Hamas's brutality, just saying that Israel and Western media could do a better job at showing it.

 

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

How come nobody here saw them, then? Even on reddit, I've only seen the one with the girl in the truck (although you can call reddit a weird website, imo).

I am not disputing Hamas's brutality, just saying that Israel and Western media could do a better job at showing it.

 

Consider yourself fortunate not to have seen them. 

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, hundreth said:

Consider yourself fortunate not to have seen them. 

that's beside the point though, no?

I've actually went to the combat footage subreddit, typed hamas in the search bar, turned off the safe search, went to the very bottom of the posts, and then used browser search tool with words: torture, woman, women, prisoner, hostage.

And I couldn't find a single torture video. I am not sure if they are getting deleted, but they are clearly harder to find than you make them out to be. So "living under the rock" description is not very fitting in my opinion.

[hundreth]

Just now, Something Funny said:

that's beside the point though, no?

I've actually went to the combat footage subreddit, typed hamas in the search bar, turned off the safe search, went to the very bottom of the posts, and then used browser search tool with words: torture, woman, women, prisoner, hostage.

And I couldn't find a single torture video. I am not sure if they are getting deleted, but they are clearly harder to find than you make them out to be. So "living under the rock" description is not very fitting in my opinion.

Yes, they were deleted in the following days because Reddit has some sense. They mostly circulated through Telegram and WhatsApp groups. Every Israeli has seen them, which explains some of the anger.

Maybe it's because I'm in this circle, but the first couple of days they seemed to be everywhere. That's where the "under a rock" came from. But these videos have been documented by mainstream media. Breakingwalls is complaining that mainstream media isn't showing them? Not sure what he wants exactly.

I still believe they aren't hard to find if you care to look. I still have them in my Whatsapp history.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

So this is the hill you want to die on? You're disputing Hamas' brutality? That's what you consider propaganda?

No, I'm just trying to find out if the Israeli government is lying when they talk about torture, and if they are, understand why they lie.

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, I'm just trying to find out if the Israeli government is lying when they talk about torture, and if they are, understand why they lie.

Hamas documented their own doings. Which is why the world at large was sympathetic to Israel in the early days of this conflict. I'm sure there are instances of the Israeli government lying, this isn't one of them. If you're going to pick on a claim they've made, choosing this one actually attempts to minimize Hamas' atrocities and you won't find many who share your sentiment even among anti Israelis. 

[Karmadhi]

30 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Which is why the world at large was sympathetic to Israel in the early days of this conflic

Leo  has said that Jews tend to have a lot of power in the US lobbying and therefore US (and europe because of US) tend to support Israel a lot.

What do you think about it?

Also there is some sort of racism towards Arabs from the west unfortunately.

I feel like if it was not Israel but another arab country attacked the same way Hamas did, they would not react the same way. 

 

[hundreth]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Leo  has said that Jews tend to have a lot of power in the US lobbying and therefore US (and europe because of US) tend to support Israel a lot.

What do you think about it?

Also there is some sort of racism towards Arabs from the west unfortunately.

I feel like if it was not Israel but another arab country attacked the same way Hamas did, they would not react the same way. 

 

Yes, this is true to some extent. But also realize the way this is portrayed is that Israel "controls" the United States for nefarious reasons, etc. when the reality is more nuanced. The United States and many other western nations greatly benefit from Israel as a trade partner, technology partner, safety / intelligence partner, military outposts, etc. They are friends. Israel contributes a lot.

Of course you will react differently when a close friend is attacked vs. a stranger. Not sure what you find strange about this. 

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Hamas documented their own doings. Which is why the world at large was sympathetic to Israel in the early days of this conflict. I'm sure there are instances of the Israeli government lying, this isn't one of them. If you're going to pick on a claim they've made, choosing this one actually attempts to minimize Hamas' atrocities and you won't find many who share your sentiment even among anti Israelis. 

It seems like you don't understand it. I'll explain it to you again: the government of Israel said that Hamas intentionally and horribly killed and tortured children and babies, that it approached three-year-old children and tortured them. Then they said that they were human animals for it, and that revenge was necessary, then he started bombing civilians in Gaza.

Don't you understand that they said that about torturing children to justify killing thousands of Palestinian children? but then the images from the terrorists' cameras were shown, and well...there is neither torture nor murder of children. For you this is very good, you don't want to think about it, whatever, but for me it is an important part of this matter

[Something Funny]

@Breakingthewall but according to @hundreth there are actual videos of that.

It kind of makes sense that super gory videos aren't just available to everyone on youtube. Maybe if you did some mkre research you could find them?

@hundreth if you could point out how people can find proof of what the below refers to, that would be helpful in my opinion.

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Don't you understand that they said that about torturing children to justify killing thousands of Palestinian children? but then the images from the terrorists' cameras were shown, and well...there is neither torture nor murder of children.

 

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Breakingthewall but according to @hundreth there are actual videos of that.

It kind of makes sense that super gory videos aren't just available to everyone on youtube. Maybe if you did some mkre research you could find them?

@hundreth if you could point out how people can find proof of what the below refers to, that would be helpful in my opinion.

 

Since I know, there is no video from the cameras of Hamas terrorists shown by the Israeli government with torture and murder of children. There are videos on YouTube, but they have to be from that day, not just any video that someone has uploaded and says it was from 7/10