New War In Israel / Gaza

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This isn't what being rational means. They are not actually achieving their purpose, they in fact achieve the opposite.

I understand what you're saying, however the psychology of being severely victimized is that eventually your position is so dire that achieving your purpose becomes impossible, so your purpose now becomes to lash out and cause as much damage to the bully as possible. That's what happens when you've been backed into a impossible corner. Israel is responsible for this dire cornering.

In order to stop the violence Israel needs to give the Palestinians a decent out. Which Israel doesn't want to do because they want to selfishly grab more land.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You have more of a duty to advocate for the end of factory farms than you have for advocating for any type of human suffering that currently exists on this planet. Don't give me this nonsense about morality. You are completely and utterly self-serving, much more so than the Israeli's are.

 

And of course you guys were justifying what HAMAS did, don't move the goal post. I said from the beginning, the palestinians have every right to defend themselves. What constitues rational defense is another question. This is like a lion and a gazelle. Of course the gazelle can kick the lion if it tries to eat it. But the lion is not wrong for trying to survive, even if it is unfair.

This is what you are too biased to see.

   Why are you assuming some moral agency from me of moral duty of factory farms or other types of human suffering worldwide, when we're talking about why is Israel oppressing and mistreating Palestine for 70 years, which has nothing to do with other human sufferings and factory farms?

   Why are you assuming we're justifying HAMAs, when we're arguing and debating about Israel mistreating Palestinians?

   Why claim we're moving goal posts when you're swapping contexts left and right, change to other irrelevant contexts to write off and distract from talking about Israel/Palestine conflict?

   Why are you assuming we're too biased to see, or me too biased to see, when I can objectively see the power dynamic and power abuse from the Zionism in Israel's ethnostate structure onto Palestininas?

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I will cease this conversation with you because you are not able to engage with the substance of what I am saying.

   Why are you gaslighting me and others arguing against Israel's oppressing and mistreating the Palestinians?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

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Edited October 7, 2023 by Husseinisdoingfine
more videos to add

[StarStruck]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And how much better would you fare if you were a Palestinian?

Terror is bad, however people are not driven to terror by nothing. They are driven into it by gross injustices and lack of any alternatives. If someone is bullied long enough he will eventually lash out in violence. Israel does plenty of bullying of Palestinians, even if it's not direct violence. The whole problem is that Israeli is strong enough to bully Palestinians without explicit violence.

Power of media is critical power in war. People just don’t know the suppression of Palestinians. A lot of lessons in this war. 

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I understand what you're saying, however the psychology of being severe victimized is that you eventually your position is so dire that achieving your purpose becomes impossible, so your purpose becomes to lash out and cause as much damage to the bully as possible.

Sure, that is what will naturally happen. I think however the reality with HAMAS is not as simple. A lot of it is driven by outside actors, so while it is an outlet of palestinian valid frustration, I also believe it is a kind of dysfunctional outgrowth which is used by opportunists.

But you have to admit that the way Israel is going about establishing a foothold is far more ethical than pretty much any other historical example you could think of. I would say what is happening in China alone, with the Uyghur people, is worse in pure ethical terms. The killings, from what I understand, are mostly a result of the violent conflict and power struggle, and of course the deaths will affect palestinians disproportionately, so I would view that as a seperate issue.

But overall, I would say they are handling things farely well, considering how humans usually act.

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

Just now, StarStruck said:

Power of media is critical power in war. People just don’t know the suppression of Palestinians. A lot of lessons in this war. 

   Which is also called manufactured consent, because whatever media you consume, they can control the information feed to you, and present a one sided or distorted news, aka misinformation and propaganda.

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@StarStruck

   Which is also called manufactured consent, because whatever media you consume, they can control the information feed to you, and present a one sided or distorted news, aka misinformation and propaganda.

I don’t follow media 

[Jacob Morres]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

[comment removed]

Dude is just straight going bigot mode 

This comment is still up

Dude was a closeted white supremacist 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But you have to admit that the way Israel is going about establishing a foothold is far more ethical than pretty much any other historical example you could think of.

I don't think stealing bunches of Palestinian land is ethical.

By historical standards its not that bad, but standards also rise as mankind develops. For the 21st century, stealing land is not acceptable. 200 years ago it would be a different matter.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

New statement by Joe Biden:

@Leo Gura, you're opinion on America giving support to Israel after statements you made in this thread?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

??❌?? — Official statement from the Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

— The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia holds Israel responsible for what happened due to its repeated provocations and deprivation of rights of Palestinians.

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I don't think stealing bunches of Palestinian land is ethical.

It depends on the situation. I would reserve judgement. What is clearly unethical though is funding factory farms so that you feel a little more energy during the day.

 

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

For the 21st century, stealing land is not acceptable.

That's easy to say for you, not living in the middle east, surrounded by states and people who want to eradicate your race.

[StarStruck]

Israel is playing for the long game. Demographically Israel would disappear if it followed SD green policy. 

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

Sure, that is what will naturally happen. I think however the reality with HAMAS is not as simple. A lot of it is driven by outside actors, so while it is an outlet of palestinian valid frustration, I also believe it is a kind of dysfunctional outgrowth which is used by opportunists.

But you have to admit that the way Israel is going about establishing a foothold is far more ethical than pretty much any other historical example you could think of. I would say what is happening in China alone, with the Uyghur people, is worse in pure ethical terms. The killings, from what I understand, are mostly a result of the violent conflict and power struggle, and of course the deaths will affect palestinians disproportionately, so I would view that as a seperate issue.

But overall, I would say they are handling things farely well, considering how humans usually act.

   The fact you can equate China's Oppression and mass genocide of Uyghur people, very similar to how Nazi Germany Oppressed and did the holocaust onto the Jews, to Israel's oppressing and mistreatment of Palestinians, but then turn around and accuse me and other users arguing for the unethical ways those Ethnocentric Zionists, with their 2 party ethnostate, mistreating Palestinians as biased and justifying HAMAs when we did stated we're not justifying HAMAs, and mix in Veganism to muddy discussion, is just profoundly amazing that you could sit there with this reasoning and not realize how bad faith your were to me and other users here.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

⚡️#BREAKING Latest casualty toll according to Fox News correspondent:

-300+ Israelis killed
-1,500+ wounded
—————————————-
-252 Palestinians dead
-1,000+ wounded

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

 

@Leo Gura, you're opinion on America giving support to Israel after statements you made in this thread?

Of course US supports Israel.

My opinion is that the US should only support Israel if Israel agrees to stop grabbing more land. If Israel insists on settlement expansion then it should not get support or much sympathy. A thief should not be allowed to cry for sympathy. But a non-thief should.

Israel is like a child who keeps stealing food from the other children, but then cries when those children hit back. The solution must involve stop stealing food, not stealing faster and in more clever ways.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

5 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

New statement by Joe Biden:

@Leo Gura, you're opinion on America giving support to Israel after statements you made in this thread?

   Predictable he and his administration supports Israel, just IMO dishonorable given the data we have for the 70 years of Israel land grabbing. Time for a new president that'll make Israel more accountable and stop it's Zionism.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My opinion is that the US should only support Israel if Israel agrees to stop grabbing more land.

The precise Obama admin policy in a nutshell.

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course US supports Israel.

My opinion is that the US should only support Israel if Israel agrees to stop grabbing more land. If Israel insists on settlement expansion then it should not get support or much sympathy. A thief should not be allowed to cry for sympathy. But a non-thief should.

Israel is like a child who keeps stealing food from the other children, but then cries when those children hit back.

You forget the being surrounded by children who would kill them on the basis of their ethnicity if they had the opportunity.