New War In Israel / Gaza

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 How many people died of direct bombing? Gazan population is much smaller than that of Yemen. Also a lot more people would have died of famine if not for the intervention of many nations.

[Bobby_2021]

Just now, LSD-Rumi said:

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

Exactly my point. You can shit on Israel as much as you want since they are holding themselves to a higher standard. Saudi do not have any such standards, bombs indiscriminately and no one will criticize them since they are a Muslim country. 

I am pointing out this hypocrisy. 

War reveals your "true" human nature. This is a reasonable response to terrorism. You have no grasp for the damage these terrorists can do to the world when we tolerate them.  You need some other "fascist" to take them out. And they will be taken out. There is no place in the world for terrorism.

On top of that democracy is imposing peace with violence. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021 As the world beoming more developed, it is upholding higher standards to human rights in war. Israel reaction was very overblown and shocked the world especially with the presence of social media.

Israel bombed the hell out of Gaza for two reasons:

• It wanted to take a revenge and satisfy the the Israeli population who was filled with rage over what happened. The Government wanted to compensate for ots failure in protecting borders by bombing the hell out of Gaza.
• Israel wanted to minimize its soldiers casualties and military losses by aggresive bombing before land invasion. So civilians life is not a concern compared to this goal.

I can undestand and relate to the POV of Israel but the problem was that the bombing was inhumanely aggresive. It like nothing we have seen before. Israel basically turned Gaza into ashes. Gazan people lost their homes, properties and everything they worked hard for, for decades.

Edited March 10 by LSD-Rumi

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

All your ideals will fly out of the window the moment you head a gun shot outside. Almost all of the Palestinian supporters are falling for this fallacy all the time. War time ideas are wholly different from peace time ideas. Throw out everything you learned from actualized, because it will not fly here. It will not help you defend against terrorists.

You do not negotiate with terrorists. You do not make deals with them. You eliminate them.

The longer you are willing to tolerate terrorists, the more they terrorize you. It is number one priority to eliminate the terrorists. There should be no ceasefire until the terrorists cease to exist.

The best way to do that is to level their tunnel infrastructure to the ground or below it. At some point, enough is enough. 

I think if most people had terrorists outside their home peoples minds would change. It is easy to judge from a western country on the other side of the world. I do try and understand that life in Israel is hard. The issue people have is the civilian deaths. 25,000 women and children dead is really unacceptable and not justified. You aren’t just fighting a war with an army against another army. You can’t use the hamas hide behind civilians narrative either. It’s gone way beyond that now.  All the world is seeing is collective punishment, which is a war crime. Nothing to be proud of. 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Bobby_2021 Israel likes to show itself as a developes democracy. But during this war, the world saw its real nature and it was shocked to the core.

Exactly. They have shown themselves to be not developed and very much middle eastern/arab in their behaviour. 

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

I think if most people had terrorists outside their home peoples minds would change.

Let’s also notice the “terrorist” inside our own minds. How it creates doubts, insecurities, and irrational fears in you. Like an invisible bully. 

[Nivsch]

40 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

Exactly. They have shown themselves to be not developed and very much middle eastern/arab in their behaviour. 

This is true to Ben Gvir party.

Not to 90% of the Israelis who are westerners average and developed just like the west.

This paragraph goes very deep (in my opinion) into the psychological complexity of all of us but seems the strongest (on average) in the west left.

This is not to say we don't have to be humane as possible in this war, we have to. But this is still a worth thinking and learning from statement.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

You can’t use the hamas hide behind civilians narrative either

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Israel.  Hamas basically turned Gaza into ashes. Gazan people lost their homes, properties and everything they worked hard for, for decades.

Corrected it for you. 

[Bobby_2021]

Israel is following the war ethics from what I hear in the news. Before bombing a building they will announce to vacate it. They follow all standards of a modern ethical military.

I understand your concern.

Bombing civilians.

They are sadly and unfortunately the collateral damage. It's not easy to get rid of terrorism. There is a heavy price to pay. That's the only way to deal with terrorists & cowards.  But the price for tolerating terrorism is going to be brutal manifold. 

Whatever the world should not tolerate terrorism. Democracy and liberalism doesn't mean you give a free pass to terrorism. 

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Israel is following the war ethics from what I hear in the news. Before bombing a building they will announce to vacate it. They follow all standards of a modern ethical military.

 

Not true, they do not use the warning bomb policy currently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking#2023_Israel–Hamas_war

example, here bombed residents said they received no notice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_camp_airstrikes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war#cite_ref-80

Edited March 10 by Raze

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

+1 🧡

[Raze]

20 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

Just FYI, Israel hasn’t actually presented proof all or even most of the civilian deaths are the result of human shields. In fact in this conflict I haven’t seen evidence of any human shields being used so far. Civilians just living in the area where you are bombing is not being used as a human shield.

Amnesty international investigated the previous war and did not find evidence of Hamas using human shields during that conflict for example, even though thousands of civilians were killed

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2111782015ENGLISH.pdf#page47

There also was evidence of Israel using human shields 

https://www.btselem.org/human_shields
 

 

Edited March 10 by Raze

[Nivsch]

@Raze Actually many proofs for that has been displayed by Israel.

To deny the human shield is like to deny oct 7th.

This is the ABC of a terror organization most basic behaviour who has no other chance to survive against a powerful military but through this way.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch

[LSD-Rumi]

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Hamas will and should cease to exist. They can choose their final tomb. Doesn't matter that they are amidst civilians. Hamas tunnels will be destroyed.

Hamas is the one committing war crimes by using civilians as a human sheild. This is not enough to deter Israel. 

Corrected it for you. 

Both Hamas and Israel carry the responsibility. Children's blood is on their hands.

I came to Conclude that Hammas doesn't value the life of its own people. They deal with them as their life is nothing valuable when it comes to the ultimate goal which is eradicating Israel.

This is what happens when you become so obsessed about a "rightous" goal and allow yourself to slowly break the barriers of morality to achieve what you call the truth. You slowly will turn into a devil without your knowing. This applies to both Hammas and Israel. 

Edited March 10 by LSD-Rumi

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bobby_2021

37 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Israel is following the war ethics from what I hear in the news. Before bombing a building they will announce to vacate it. They follow all standards of a modern ethical military.

I understand your concern.

Bombing civilians.

Hahahaha.

I cannot but luagh. When the Supreme court judge you by genocide, you should know you did something wrong. 

 

[Nivsch]

@LSD-Rumi But it didn't.

This was just South Africa government who invited hamas leaders to their office during the same month in when they submitted their claim to the court.

The court did nothing tangible/operational because it also understood this "genoc*de" legend isn't a serious thing.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

3 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

Exactly. They have shown themselves to be not developed and very much middle eastern/arab in their behaviour. 

You have a poor understanding of what "developed country" means.

It's the under developed countries that sit and tolerate terrorism and allow them to run a much.

Will Dubai allow this bullshit? No. They ban all this and will put you in jail for this nonsense. 

A subset of the Muslim countries are horrifically underdeveloped and a significant faction of elites from the developed countries fund the terrorists, even if they may half heartedly condemn it. 

-------------------

Using civilians to reach their goal is not despicable but the standard operating procedure for terrorists. Bending to their demands is like bending to the will of the terrorist. You are behaving exactly like they want you to behave. 

You don't have to let this happen. 

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

The court did nothing tangible/operational because it also understood this "genoc*de" legend isn't a serious thing.

They ruled there’s a plausible case for genocide taking place (the final verdict takes years) and they listed tangible measures to be followed which Israel didn’t but instead violated mockingly via IDF members own hands.

The majority of Israeli society might be moderate but the issue is with the groups that wield influence and set the country's policy and direction. Considering its relatively small population size, the extreme rhetoric coming out of Israel seems disproportionately high. When examples of such rhetoric are highlighted, accusations of cherry-picking often follow by ultra Zionists, yet if an equivalent volume of footage were shared depicting Muslims with the same extremist elements they feel fine to attribute these views to a 2 billion-strong Muslim population, branding them together.

Extremist groups are a reality across all societies, including Islamic ones. The crucial factor is the extent of their influence over a country and its citizens. It's important to consider whether these radical voices have political allies who share their views, or if they are marginalized, wielding influence only within their own 'sacred' communities and places of worship. The distinction between political support and isolation can significantly affect how these groups impact broader society and policy.
 

 

 

Article about the above Rabbi (whose school is funded by the government - should it be defunded? Should aid be cut to Israel just like UNRWA?) - 

https://jewschool.com/174135-174135

One of the notable Israeli historians;

 

Edited March 10 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@Bobby_2021 Which means all the so called developed countries like UK, Sweden and the like are indeed very developed relative to the muslim countries, but in the broad sense even them are still only half-baked developed because, among other things, the reasons you mentioned.

Edited March 10 by Nivsch