Posted January 16 4 hours ago, Nivsch said: OMG He just NAILED it. So good and so authentic. I felt like a melted icecream after heard him. And what about West Bank? I do not think people have issues with how Israelis treat the Arabs in Israel per say. Issue is more about West Bank that is treated like a terrorist state. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 16 4 hours ago, Lila9 said: the girl who was kidnapped by Hamas If Hamas are terrorist raping monsters devils how come they treated her so well? Even her father says so. No raping, no beatings, no nothing. Interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 16 (edited) @kenway I love how these Israelis are totally cold and non reactive to all the horrible stuff you send here everyday and just rationalize it away or totally ignore it. It makes sense why Hamas would target civilians in purpose, when Israelis do not see Palestinians as humans. Any sane human would protest to stop the killings, I saw some sane Israeli organizations are doing so. Most are not unfortunately. How are they better than the Gazans that celebrated on the streets I wonder? Edited January 16 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 16 3 hours ago, kenway said: The idea that the Zionists were "saving the Jews from the Nazis" is just woefully naive. And that's certainly true for the Religious Zionists, who really didn't give a fuck about either the Jews or the Political Zionist movement. In fact, they still don't. No, you don't really know. You demonize and dehumanize the Zionists movement, paint them as devils to suit your narrative, glued to a certain propagandist content which confirms your bias. 3 hours ago, kenway said: It's inevitable. The problem you have is that you're living in this "la-la-la" land where Israel can do no wrong to the extent that you don't recognise the current genocide that's taking place. To be absolutely clear: there is a genocide taking place. Right now, there are currently 1.9 million Gazans on a beach. If they don't get food and medical supplies within the next 10 days, they're all going to start dieing of disease and starvation. It's 1.9 million people. and Israel are deliberately not letting in the aid trucks. In your fantasy world, Israel got into this war for fun, that's hilarious, you definitely cannot understand what enemy Israel is facing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 16 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: 1 Hostage's fear and suffering = 100 Israeli soldiers/Gazan citizens suffering. This is sad. Inside of me I hope that the hostages who were declared as dead in Hamas captivaty are somehow still alive... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 @Lila9 In my heart I know you to be a decent human being and I know you mean well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Karmadhi said: And what about West Bank? I do not think people have issues with how Israelis treat the Arabs in Israel per say. Issue is more about West Bank that is treated like a terrorist state. They are treated like a terrorist state because they have committed and still commiting terror attacks. It's not out of nowhere. They deserve what they do to others. If they would have been peaceful, all was good and there was no need for checkpoints or military there. And there could be a place for negociating two states solution or even one, who knows. In reality, unfortunately, it's not the case. 2 hours ago, Karmadhi said: If Hamas are terrorist raping monsters devils how come they treated her so well? Even her father says so. No raping, no beatings, no nothing. Interesting. They didn't treated her 'so well', they treated her like they treat their hostages, did the bare minimum to keep her alive and God knows what she has seen there and experienced there, per her family, she still hasn't came fully to herself and doesn't speak or behave like she used to prior to the kidnapping. Only because she isn't physically injured, doesn't make Hamas crimes any less devilish and horrible and doesn't contridict the fact the Hamas are dangerous terrorists who made crimes against humanity. They have literally killed babies in their sleep and children, on October 7. What else they should do to make you realize that they are not innocent freedom fighters who are fighting for justice, or any western projection disconnected from the brutal reality of the middle east and the evil side of the human nature? By your logic, if a Nazi has passed by a disabled/black/Romani/Jewish boy (or anyone who was their target) without killing or raping him, it makes him clean, despite all the killings and the crimes he made against people he is targeting throughout his life. What a screwed logic I must say. 2 hours ago, Karmadhi said: @kenway I love how these Israelis are totally cold and non reactive to all the horrible stuff you send here everyday and just rationalize it away or totally ignore it. It makes sense why Hamas would target civilians in purpose, when Israelis do not see Palestinians as humans. Any sane human would protest to stop the killings, I saw some sane Israeli organizations are doing so. Most are not unfortunately. How are they better than the Gazans that celebrated on the streets I wonder? You call Israelies cold and at the same time justify Hamas crimes against Israelies. So you are no different, and actually, you are worse because you are supporting and justifying a terrorist organization who started this war by commiting unbelievable crimes against humanity, deliberately with a great celebration. There is no evidence that Israel deliberately targets Palestinian civilians. And no, videos of dead and injured people, while are highly unfortunate, don't prove that Israel deliberately and systematically targets civilians, like Hamas did and still do. It only proves that Hamas is hiding among the civilians and using them as human shields, locating themselves in schools and hospitals, the most sensitive places, failing to protect them from the consequences of their crimes. They couldn't do the bare minimum of locating themselves in a non civilized areas, it only shows how strategic and canny they are. Hamas themselves don't see themselves as responsible to their own people, they admitted, watch below. They benefit from the Gaza civilians deaths, which is cynically used to make them richer through donations and to bring them more support and more hatred towards Israel. The biggest enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and toxic doctrines alike. And by fighting Hamas Israel helping to the Palestinians, in the long term. If not Hamas, Gaza wouldn't be in the state it is now. This is a fact. If you are ruled by such terrorist organization, you are doomed to high suffering, either by the terrorists and their policies directly against you, or indirectly by being at a vulnerable position and by being at their mercy when they are intiating fighting against others. Edited January 17 by Lila9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 45 minutes ago, kenway said: @Lila9 In my heart I know you to be a decent human being and I know you mean well. I don't know if you are being cynical or not... But if it is genuine, thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Lila9 said: They are treated like a terrorist state because they have committed and still commiting terror attacks. It's not out of nowhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lila9 said: There is no evidence that Israel deliberately targets Palestinian civilians. Edited January 17 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 (edited) @Lila9 Everyone here talks from his or her trauma and childhood experience and this is what determines their side in this conflict basically. The fact though is that Israel did everything to avoid this war. From a billion dollars smart fence, through 1000s of work permission to Gazans in Israel and millions of dollar poured on Gaza with Israel permission. However Gaza was already saturated from wealth and money and could be the second Dubai, but it didnt help since every dollar was directed into terror. Edited January 17 by Nivsch 🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 @zazen This "massacare" list is fake and unreliable. And how do I know that? Because Israel surgical operations (~70% surgicality in average which is very good given hamas tactic) in the last 15 years are also displayed there as "massacare" 😂 Pure absurdity 🎠💈🎡🎪 🌻Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @zazen This "massacare" list is fake and unreliable. And how do I know that? Because Israel surgical operations (~70% surgicality in average which is very good given hamas tactic) in the last 15 years are also displayed there as "massacare" 😂 Pure absurdity 🎠💈🎡🎪 True, the word massacre implies large scale killing which isn’t the case for all of these ‘incidents’ if that’s a better word. The point is there’s been attacks from both sides which debunks the October 7th happening out of nowhere claim. Operation protective edge in 2014 killed 1’400 civilians of which 500 were children compared to 33 children on October 7th (15 times more) I don’t mean to compare numbers in such a crude way but it’s to make the point that people can understand why Israel is angry after October 7th but this understanding doesn’t come much from the Israeli side to why the Palestinians would be angry after Israeli operations. https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20160720_fatalities_in_gaza_conflict_2014 The civilian rate for the last 15 years differs between IDF and UN numbers. IDF have been shown to lie many times in the past and come out later to admit to things they’ve done. I’m not sure why many human rights groups or UN would lie - what could they all have against Israel. It’s not like all of them can be anti-Semitic or Hamas cooperatives. I can only go by what 3rd party groups say rather than trust either IDF or Hamas due to bias. Here are numbers from UN for each operation the last 15 years: 2008 - 1’150 (60% civilian) / 3 Israeli civilians killed 2012 - 100 killed (60% civilian) / 4 Israeli civilians killed 2014 - 2’251 killed (65% civilian) / 6 Israeli civilians killed 2018 - 1 commander, 2 civilians killed (66%) , 0 Israeli civilians killed (thankfully not many deaths in this operation as it was a small covert one) Regarding October 7th: As all Israelis take part in the army and become citizen-reservists couldn’t it be that Israel can also claim that their soldiers who die are also civilians. Like the outpost near the border that Hamas attacked on October 7th - they were stationed there as guards but labelled civilians at the same time. This can be used almost as a human shield to portray any attack from Palestinians as a civilians attack. Likewise the settlement expansion can be used as a political human shield against a future Palestinian state. Edited January 17 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
