Science Fraud: The Nature of Serious Science

[r0ckyreed]

Just read Leo's blog post on Science Fraud.

While I agree that science, like spirituality and like EVERYTHING ELSE, can and will be corrupted by humans. Of course, fabrication is not something science is immune from. Spirituality is also fabricated!!! Look at how many people post that they are awake like it's a f**king new scientific breakthrough, when in reality, their minds are just fabricating themselves deeper into the matrix. 

Sometimes, I see this with Leo when he has made grandiose claims in the past such as the healing powers of consciousness, water fasting, etc. I think I understand why Leo makes the grandiose claims at times, because he wants to get people excited and invested in the process of deconstructing reality. The issue is that people fall in love with a fantasy of consciousness and not the reality of it. Just like how Leo was super hyped about the idea of water fasting only to find out the reality of it was abysmal and over-hyped.

I see the same with meditation. People claim meditation will enlighten you but it doesn't. Meditation in moderation is beneficial, but these 10 day retreats are so over-hyped. I haven't tried psychedelics, but I can assume it may probably be the same thing. Everything is so over-hyped that when you get to it, it is like what is the big deal. This happens with sex, alcohol, drugs, spirituality, you name it.

Back to the main point here, science is our way of discovering what is true. Leo's fabrication of his scientific results from blog post that he did for a school project is not real science. Now, you could argue with me that there is no boundary between science and pseudoscience, but your lack of making nuanced distinctions isn't actually making you any smarter. You could even argue with me that there is no such thing as smart or dumb because foolishness and wisdom are one. 

Hahaha this is exactly the definition of a fool. Nobody ever really has contemplated what a fool even is. A fool is simply consciousness without distinctions. When a mind lacks the ability to make distinctions, it lacks the ability to observe the fine-tuned differences between things in reality. Part of oneness is recognizing difference. A fool will lack the ability to make distinctions whereas a wise person does not. A perfect example of this is race. A Trump is foolish because they cannot make distinctions between what is corruption and what is not. They will conflate all black people together for instance or they will deny race all-together (i.e., color-blindness).

Just like Leo said there is Proper Philosophy and improper philosophy, there is also Serious Science and improper science. You cannot do Serious Science as long as you are influenced by money. The issue I have is that when Leo is critiquing science, he is never critiquing Serious Science but stupid/improper science. A one-sided analysis of critiquing stupid science is a biased way of critiquing science as a whole. Serious Science is the same as what has been called Proper Philosophy.

There is no Serious Science without Proper Philosophy. We should not even call mainstream, corporate, and university "science" even Science because it is not Serious Science. When you are making critiques of "science," you really are critiquing stupid science and not Serious Science. Serious Science is the process of critiquing the stupid science that is spewed everywhere and calling out that stupid science is not even science at all. That's like me saying that meditation is the same as Serious Spirituality when in reality it is just a navel gazing merry-go-round that won't get you anywhere. And of course, a Zen teacher will tell you there is nowhere to go! Because with that 40 year meditation practice, there will be nowhere to go! When you spend 40 years sitting on your butt and counting your breaths, you existentially connect to one thing and disconnect from another.

EDIT: I am coining the term Serious Science, and I may post a video or article here articulating more of what that entails. It's too much to explicate here.

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Holykael]

Psychedelics are not overhyped. They are the only legitimate tool to change your consciousness

[OBEler]

@r0ckyreed you dont know how wrong you are about psychedelics. You cannot overhype them in terms of spirituality.

Let me tell you I tried almost every fancy spiritual exercise/technique out there with many results. My first high dose lsd trip blew everything I learned so far out of the window. It blowed my mind completely. I needed to process over a year what happened, my spiritual progress never really was happening before this first trip and I  so glad that I did this. 

If I could travel back in time I would skip all these time consuming exercises and books I read and would straight go to psychedelics.

I am not overhyping right now. I could express this importance of taking psychedelics even stronger and it would not be overhyped. Only people who took seriously psychedelics would understand, so sorry for you. 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by OBEler

[r0ckyreed]

It’s funny how my take on psychedelics was the only thing taken from the thread. Psychedelics are so overhyped. Drug intake does not equal understanding of reality. There are plenty of people who use psychedelics and become more deluded. You are missing something. Psychedelics are a hallucination.  

I can count on the hands of every churchgoer how many people I know who use psychedelics but have no better understanding of reality than I do.

Contemplation is the ultimate tool for Serious Science. No amount of psychedelics will increase your understanding of reality if you lack the skill of contemplation. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[OBEler]

@r0ckyreed Yeah you are right, still if you take them in spiritual context and not recreational, it will give you the in your opinion overhyped results you read. 

 

[Hojo]

Psychedelic showed me that your pov field is completely empty of everything. Science is a fiction. Science stops existing  outside of your head. Its metaphysical its only there cause you say its there its a limiting belief system why would you use it outside of convenience. It stops existing when you stop questioning

Edited June 19, 2023 by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

All my critiques of science apply directly to the most serious science you can think of.

You cannot get away with saving science by making a distinction between proper and improper science. This begs the question. You have no epistemic basis for making this distinction.

Science is not fraud, but there is certainly fraud within science. Don't strawman me.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You cannot get away with saving science by making a distinction between proper and improper science. This begs the question. You have no epistemic basis for making this distinction.

But didn't you do this with Proper Philosophy? 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This begs the question. You have no epistemic basis for making this distinction.

What epistemic basis is there for making any distinction? There is wise science and foolish science. It would be foolish to conflate the two together. Sometimes, we have to take action and make distinctions before we have the right knowledge.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

All my critiques of science apply directly to the most serious science you can think of.

 

It seems like your critiques are towards foolish science and the social system of it. You seem like an advocate for Truth, which is the hallmark for science. 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Science is not fraud, but there is certainly fraud within science. Don't strawman me.

Okay. We are in agreement. 

My whole thing is that we have to make distinctions; otherwise, there is nothing we can talk about or critique. And we may not have any epistemic basis right now, but we have to start off somewhere.

We have to make a distinction between True Science and pseudoscience. I mean, the same could be said about Spirituality where people conflate Actualized.org with being a cult. But those people are fools because their definitions, distinctions, and understanding would be so limiting to not draw distinctions between spirituality, religion, and cults. They aren't the same. Science should not be excluded from this. There is science and pseudoscience and there is corrupt science and authentic science. It is hard to pinpoint what counts as science or pseudoscience, but we cannot just assume that everyone who claims they are doing science is doing science. That is one of the reasons why we have scientific fraud. 

But on the other hand, science like religion is so broad that even atheists overlook it. When they say they are "men of science," which science? Shamanism? Psychedelic science? Academic science? Corporate science? And when they say that "religion is the root of all evil," which religion(s)? 

I feel like people's view of science is so narrow and focuses on academic science. That is like a person focusing solely on Christianity when it comes to religion. Like when someone hears the word science, academic/mainstream science could be the first thing that comes to mind and Christianity with religion. Our concepts of science and religion are so broad that it is hard to critique and deconstruct it without finding a common ground. The common ground with religion that I notice is groupthink. There is no religion without a group. Whereas, science is more flexible and can operate in groups like in academic science or can be an independent practice. 

Science is about curiosity and investigation whereas religion is mainly about belief and conformity. And sure, there is overlap between the two where a religious person can be curious and a scientist can be a conformist (especially when it comes to academic/mainstream science), etc. etc.

Edited June 20, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

But didn't you do this with Proper Philosophy?

I am AWAKE. So I can do such things.

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

It seems like your critiques are towards foolish science and the social system of it.

Science has always been foolish from the dawn of time up through today. The fundamemtal problem is that there is no method to distinguish true vs false science.

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

You seem like an advocate for Truth, which is the hallmark for science. 

It is NOT the hallmark of science. Science doesn't even know what Truth is. No scientist can tell you.

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Okay. We are in agreement. 

My whole thing is that we have to make distinctions; otherwise, there is nothing we can talk about or critique. And we may not have any epistemic basis right now, but we have to start off somewhere.

If you are so keen on making distinctions then fine, make this distinction: truth vs science.

[Jowblob]

7 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

It’s funny how my take on psychedelics was the only thing taken from the thread. Psychedelics are so overhyped. Drug intake does not equal understanding of reality. There are plenty of people who use psychedelics and become more deluded. You are missing something. Psychedelics are a hallucination.  

I can count on the hands of every churchgoer how many people I know who use psychedelics but have no better understanding of reality than I do.

Contemplation is the ultimate tool for Serious Science. No amount of psychedelics will increase your understanding of reality if you lack the skill of contemplation. 

I have asked 4 people irl that took lsd if they understood what it was, they didn't and i just got some gibberish back ... All of them said they went crazy, you have no idea how deep you can go on psychedelics or what understanding you can get. When you take a psychedelic it is up to god to give you a godly experience, most people won't gonna get it is because theyre too selfish and are buried far too deep in their own ego fighting god. Psychedelics are probably the only thing that can get you as close as possible to understanding reality, because you don't say this and don't understand this, anything that you write becomes invalid because people see you lack the understanding.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Jowblob

[puporing]

Psychedelics are good but also I recommend some openness to your peers, they may have information to share that you are not yet accessing to help you access. Coz exactly like few of you say psychedelics alone can't give you everything/full understanding if you are not ready for it, pointers help and then you can check it out yourself/verify things. It's like we're throwing each other ropes to climb the tree or something.

When it comes to science I guess, I did do a degree in it so I know a little bit. I know the conflict between "inconvenient truths" that honest/rigorous scientists (in the relative domain) vs corporate interests to snuff them out. Think tobacco industry and climate change/environmental sciences.

The training of scientists is to be as little biased as possible and this is a topic that comes up in training if I recall (observer bias and many other biases). But that's no guarantee someone is going to (and able to) follow that once they're out of school (or even when they're in school). "Honest science" tends to make no money as it prob should be to be objective, so it's mostly on the collective to make such funding possible or individuals that somehow can fund it. 

But I think fundamentally science has not yet bridged with spirituality much is because these scientists are not ready to wake up themselves, if so they would land somewhere like here.

Edited June 20, 2023 by puporing

[Vibroverse]

A Hegelian conceptualization of science might help you.