ivankiss

Constructive criticism for Leo

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@Emerald When the humanity is recognized..then what changes in power dynamics... how does relationship works if there is no someone above or under, how is polarity spark created then?

 

 


There is nothing safe with playing it safe.

 

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10 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

@Emerald What can an individual man do to stop this pattern in their own life? Or is that something that is so systemic and deeply ingrained that only a large scale shift in these expectations placed on men and the cultural values fuelling them will make a difference?

So, assuming your assessment is true, what can I do as a man to not be insecure about receiving love from a woman and to stop perpetuating this cycle?

The root cause of it is the polarization into the masculine side to the exclusion of the feminine side.

The entirely of humanity (including women) has this issue collectively.

But men are particularly susceptible to this polarization because they are taught that in order to be valid, the have to live up to certain standards of masculinity.

And with this pressure, men try to be more masculine and they try to suppress the feminine in them. And they become ashamed of the feminine in themselves.

So, the shamed feminine side goes into their Shadow. 

And this creates an intense disgust toward the feminine. But it also manifests as an intense longing for the feminine.

There is the part of them that wants to resist the feminine at all costs. And there’s a part of them that wants to integrate the feminine at all costs.

But the kicker is this…

All of this dynamic gets played out externally.

And they project their rejected feminine side onto women. And women become so powerful in men’s eyes for this reason. She represents his rejected feminine side.

And so she becomes the demon angel up on the pedestal, judging male worth.

And object of intense desire…. But with the power to bring about intense shame.

And this can snowball too…

Men reject their feminine side to meet masculine expectations and avoid shame. And they see women as the arbiter that can either redeem or condemn them through acceptance or refusal to integrate (which is interpreted externally as having sex).

And so men respond to this by further polarizing into the masculine and rejecting the feminine… which intensifies the projection and the perception of women’s power.

And me respond to this by polarizing into the masculine and rejecting the feminine…. And so on and so on.

So, the solution is to integrate the feminine side. It’s counterintuitive, but it is the only way to stop projecting tons of power onto women.


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10 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Emerald When the humanity is recognized..then what changes in power dynamics... how does relationship works if there is no someone above or under, how is polarity spark created then?

The power differential equalizes and the true polarity can be recognized.

It’s like the Yin Yang sign… the light side (masculine) and the dark side (feminine) are equal. But they are also polarized.

And everyone’s masculine/feminine ratio is different, so optimum polarization comes from finding someone with a complementary ratio.


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

First off, I didn’t say anything negative about men in the whole post. I really am just saying what’s evident to me about an emotional pattern that men are experiencing and how men and women are reacting to each other as a result.

You didn't. I just tend to want to check whether women who talk the big talk are walking their talk or not. Nothing personal. 

Also, on the one hand, you say that 'submission means to forcefully self-diminish to fit into a rigid role'. And, on the other hand, you say that 'a tyrant is born out of insecurity'. Wouldn't an insecure person in a position of power, or 'tyrant', be moving the line of what the other person's role is, to then disempower the other person? Because, with a role, comes power. So, wouldn't the fluidity of a role actually serve and enable a tyrant? 

For example, in a traditional patriarchy, if a woman's role is to cook, she has the 'power over the kitchen', in a certain sense. The man has to eat whatever she cooks. Now, if he doesn't have clear boundaries in what he likes and doesn't like, this will make him 'insecure'. And, this will make it so he moves the line with what she should cook and that'll become 'controlling and tyrannical', so to speak. (Apply the same logic to sex, if you want) But, if he has clear boundaries as to what he likes, she'll know how to be secure with him and things will run smoothly, even though the roles are 'rigid'. Right?! 

Edited by mr_engineer

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@Emerald I once had integrated masculine and feminine it was like neither of them were shining it created more struggle inside and seeing relationship as equal seems really weak and repelling to me..

In Vikings Vallhala series one guy could lead men to battle and was equal in relationship with a woman, looked really off to me...even tho its more concious way...


There is nothing safe with playing it safe.

 

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You can dissolve power dynamics with communication, although that is an infinity endeavour, with endless rate in changes, where the point is about beign trans-logical, I don't have communications with any beign like this, and I still 99.9% of the time disambiguate power situation, just by the organic choice of use of language. Ironically! Some don't like this many love holding diaological power against the opposition in a fight and this is even good in the bigger picture. I was also fairly toxic, as I notice how important disambiguation of power is in a power position, if there is more peace and harmony within a country, not if there is a war... at stake. See this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev deposed, dethroned, collectively sabotaged for introducing more liberal politics in eastern europe etc. 

I recently noticed this has I've been in a position of no power and realized how "disgusting" most humans are as a means for their materalistic survival, even if that means a house and a car for children etc. As we had a task to work on data disambiguation for a pregnant women and analyze the data. 

The level of self-identification with survival drives (sex/food/hunger/thrist) fundamentally beige and purple... is extremely low, it's very frustrating to even realize how much of society&world is fundamentally run on this, and how stage orange excess basically kills the good wonders of it. I have to stop looking at it. I was happy I remembered this, as this change the dynamic of most groups, as I legit am the dumbest person in the room and that is a good thing. 

Many engineers struggle tremendously with women, if all you here is model this, model that model model model. The mind is just spinning towards wanting and seeing more beauty consciously at best and unconsciously 100%, beauty and love are not the samething, how feisty this get's for women and how much support in strength and power is needed and mostly comes from vulnerable men, that is the irony of it all. 

I like what Emerald said a lot, I don't like to dive into the details to much, as the collective and the energy body of mine is very masculine I notice, many feminine beigns regardless of gender, enjoy this kind of energy. It's like the kick-ass marital artist attitude, with a certain level of grace. In dating I had a couple of super artsy/spiritual women like my profile for authenticity and they were very good-looking human beigns. 

Building character is 100% worth it, I am still quiet willing to learn game I can learn a lot from the dark side also, for various reason not recognized where a lot of dark desires are simply not adressed and there is a huge hidden moral and twisted logic behind it imo for self-survival and agenda. I saw this with my friends who were just out for the "good-life" house, family and kids. The individual is reduced it's insane my current landlord thinks about me more than my old friend who was engaged in his "family business", because she realizes how that level of collective depth is missing and I am glad for that level of insight! What my new chinese friend told me with A.I scared the living shit out of me. 

I also think families are very important I would not be where I am at without my family.

It's fundamentally a huge issue of striver&achiever mentality at best check out O'Fallon paper... like it's very obvious, as well as contemplate the 6 in the Enneagram as sx type they go for strength and beauty. We don't have a lot of healthy green to enjoy it's individuality and orientation towards growth and wholeness more naturally. 

The book the blue truth helps a lot for this perspective, engineers are very rigid about beauty&practicallity imo look at the zen of python, it's like a right they claim to have, as it's a highly regarded position within society, yet when it comes to liberal values, all of these achievments mostly fade, and if not embraced will be a striver&stage blue fundamental mentality, with a high cognitive capacity for yellow/turqouise thinking. 

Most engineers are stuck in striver&achiever mentality as you have to follow blueprints 99.9% of the time, it's very rigid and they see love as a conditional thing, and make things way to technical most don't care about this. The best engineers and professors are highly creative, they embrace a lot of stage green values of individuality. 

Dude how crazy women go for a hot men in engineering in terms of body language, it's quiet animalistic and I am injured out of existence lol. This is more a collective endeavour and a question of values imo, and it is a power struggle, people want responsbile people. 

Also constant growth can look very toxic, I find mastery to be something different and this is quiet difficult to put into words. For me I realized since Andrew Tate the world is more beige - blue, (heavy purple/red tribes lord mentality), then many like to admit. Anyway here are my two cents. 

If you are a 6'3 a.i engineer and many classes I have are full of nerdy type guys, who have healthy blue/orange = striver&achiever, a lot of ethnocentrism kicks-in and toxic masculinity in forms of "excess individuality", wholeness takes a lot of time. I am so fortunate to have holistic professors even in simply the attempt to be, it's insane. These people become so envious and jealous and bitter, at times I just began thinking more about god. I am more vulnerable myself, and I've seen some toxic stuff and most likely did even some toxic stuff in dating (not very toxic, yet maybe subtely toxic to some). 

The technical mumbo-jumbo is mostly survival business. Most engineers including myself want to good-life, yet things are unfortunately the way they are without metaphysics there is no proper orientation towards more wholeness, spirituality is missing so badly. 

Most prefer to see a kick-ass Andrew tate, as it justifies their worldview in so many aspects, it would make even 6w5 Infj melancholic/choleric Hitler proud lmao. 

Then again seeing onself as part of nature, apparently increased ethical behaviour..., so I dunno I get many engineers&nerds, as I naturally get some perks they will not have as I am a complete outlier. Healthy striving and achieving would even be very good for attracting women, many women like stable men. 

Beign injured showed me how harash masculine reality is even for geeky guys, and how important it is to focus on compassion in terms of beign lenient with stuff. etc etc. 

Edited by ValiantSalvatore

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27 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Emerald I once had integrated masculine and feminine it was like neither of them were shining it created more struggle inside and seeing relationship as equal seems really weak and repelling to me..

In Vikings Vallhala series one guy could lead men to battle and was equal in relationship with a woman, looked really off to me...even tho its more concious way...

That would indicate to me that the polarities weren’t really integrated.

This process of integration of feminine and masculine is subtractive not additive.

It’s about dropping resistance to both energies and allowing what naturally comes and not letting ideas and identities get in the way.

And for most men, that’s going to be mostly Yang/masculine energy with some Yin/feminine energy.

If there was the idea that you have to make yourself act more feminine or somehow get a 50/50 balance of both, this is not integration. The mind can’t do the integration. It can only step out of the way.

It’s about allowing the natural dance of Yin and Yang to happen within you and not micro-managing it with the logic-mind’s notions of masculine/feminine.

And this internal dance produces lots of libidinal energy that can be channeled in a variety of different ways.


Are you struggling with self-sabotage and CONSTANTLY standing in the way of your own success? 

If so, and if you're looking for an experienced coach to help you discover and resolve the root of the issue, you can click this link to schedule a free discovery call with me to see if my program is a good fit for you.

 

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@mr_engineer yeah was pretty happy to see some positive stuff about men too lol . The man hating stuff made me Hella umcomfy. Good to see a shift 

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There could be a shift to seeing women&men as whole and in unison, especially when it comes to desires, sex and spirituality and not only material acquisition co-creation is still a deep desire I would love to see. It's mostly about vacation and fun. I find this to be quiet superfifcal a deep adventure and romance looks a bit different ( see spiritual quest seekers). 

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23 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

@mr_engineer yeah was pretty happy to see some positive stuff about men too lol . The man hating stuff made me Hella umcomfy. Good to see a shift 

You're welcome. :)

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1 minute ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

There could be a shift to seeing women&men as whole and in unison, especially when it comes to desires, sex and spirituality

Great! That's what I feel like Infinite Love is. :)

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@Sincerity That is deep! 

I had more insights into the nature of consciouness and nature, although I guess on MDMDA I went into similar directions, I did not know it's neurotoxic, although I knew about the 2 months recovery.

I wish these gender roles would break and a lot of academics&professional&engineers would see the good in their striver&achiever mentallity as many function from a very high place of modeling and design cognitive from yellow, and love that, model and design the relationship and women you love! Make it also beautiful for the women. Letting go of models might be asking for to much. As thinking is needed, and I am quiet a crappy engineer still, as I just shifted more heavily into the domain and I'd like to see how far I can go in terms of responsibility here.

Positive role understanding would be a huge shift, from the overly individualistic ridden society of I hope humans can see each other in more unison, I find this war against men&gender tragic, in the senes that it's another ism. It's like the nuclear family is threatend by individualism (which it is with rampant consumerism etc.) I don't think any of this is realistic on a collective scale a few individuals might be able to go that deep without hurting themselves... 

Wish you the best! Hope you find someone you can be in unison with. 

Edited by ValiantSalvatore

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On 1/25/2023 at 3:53 PM, Leo Gura said:

For example, there are actually people on this forum who have managed to convince themselves that they understand what Consciousness is.

How dare they! lol This thread is so much fun.

Edited by Sincerity
Removed a ton of whitespace for readibility

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Nope none. Keep being you. Keep being raw, vulnerable and keep keeping it real. Why would we want to try to manipulate or change you or the content you put out there? Go somewhere else if you don't like it. Or think real hard about why what Leo did or said is bugging you. Is it something you see in your self and don't like?

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