4-HO-5Meo-DMT Martin Ball

[OBEler]

@Girzo oh man.. Thanks for the info. It sounded promising.

Maybe they putted some DPT in Martin balls shroom sample. Dpt is also oral active. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by OBEler

[Girzo]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I could certainly tell the difference between mushrooms and 5-MeO-DMT in a blind test.

That would be true on a full dose. But on a 1 gram shrooms versus a few milligrams of 5-MeO? I wouldn't be so sure.

People claim all kind of stuff. Like they can distinguish 4-AcO-MET from 4-HO-MET. Or that they can tell difference between 1A-LSD and 1P-LSD. I call bullshit on that. 

By the way, as we are on the topic:

How much would you say 5-MeO-MiPT differs from 5-MeO-MALT?

Is there a serious difference on a full dose?

 

 

oh, and if someone wants to side with the church, here is their response: https://psilomethoxin.com/psychedelic_capitalism/

Everyone can make sense by themselves if their arguments make sense. IMO, they are super-weak. They are referencing Shulgin, as if Shulgin ever tried to do anything practical in that domain. No. Shulgin has nothing to do with this method of feeding shrooms tryptamines, other than theorizing about it without deep knowledge about mushrooms and enzymes. He was a chemist, not a biologist.

Although, synthesis of new drugs using specially engineered enzymes is a super sexy idea that's in development right now. Making leaps as big as AI tech is making, or so I have heard. But it comes from the scientific community and not some hippie folks. And the enzymes don't come from the mushrooms.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Girzo

[Girzo]

Ah, here's some calculation why I call this church a scam.

An ounce of dried mushrooms costs around $6 to produce. (Yes, it's that cheap and sellers have ridiculous margin on this product, but also people grow them on a small scale, but it is that cheap on a large, non-regulated scale from my analysis. Legal psilocybin mushroom growers have more costs, because they have to work according to regulations and properly dispose of waste and have a high-tech sterile laboratory.)

This church is selling it at $355 per ounce, that's minimal amount plus a year subscription to their church. THAT'S $349 OF PROFIT ON A FIRST TIME BUYER!!! They have claimed to have 500 members back in October, at this rate of growth they easily have over 1000 members now. $350 000 for a year and a half of work doesn't sound bad, ain't it? And you also get to be a star on podcasts.

This is all what I have to say for their claims of being a non-profit. It doesn't matter, they still probably funnel this money out of organization in various ways, for example as wages for their work for the organization (I haven't really checked that, it's my assumption, maybe they indeed save that money for some truly non-profit use).

Edited April 21, 2023 by Girzo

[Thought Art]

@Girzo Hmm, but growing mushrooms is dangerous. Plus, it’s 5meo mushrooms 

[Girzo]

@Thought Art yeah, maybe I shouldn't look for malice when stupidity is enough of an explanation.

They might really be so high on hopium and copium that they really believe they are dealing legal substances.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Girzo

[Thought Art]

@Girzo okay don’t be a jerk here though.

The cost of materials to make something doesn’t matter. What matters is the results. There are man hours that go into running websites, accounting, paying rent, keeping the lights on, paying staff, etc… it’s not really 6 dollars per ounce to get it to the customer or…. Church follower.
 

I don’t have a solid opinion on it yet. But, I like the idea of the church and of the 5meo mushroom. 
 

Making money isn’t an issue to me. What matters is they have a quality product, that is at least affordable and that people are able to access higher states because of their work. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Thought Art

[Girzo]

They have no proof, every evidence leads to the fact they are selling normal psilocybin mushrooms.

It's very irresponsible and bad for psychedelic community to start a hype train without having any material evidence of your claims.

I feel justified in pushing hard against them.

[Thought Art]

@Girzo Well… many people have experience with both shrooms and 5meo… you’d think Martin Ball would know the difference. 

[Girzo]

@Thought Art do you have other accounts of MB trip reporting it at dosage other than 1g?

[OBEler]

@Thought Art Martin ball could be tricked.just put some DPT in mushroom powder. There you have your 5 meo shrooms Version.. 

[Thought Art]

I don’t really know

Creating a fake product and fake claims is a damn bad business idea… the psychedelic community isn’t that large. Would be really bad for them.

I know very little about the substance and organization. 
 

I am open to whatever is true… 

 

Seems unlikely to me they are trying to scam and con people. But, I have no idea.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

12 hours ago, Girzo said:

Psilomethoxin church is a SCAM. These mushrooms contain no novel compunds. They are plain psilocybin mushrooms, here's the analysis: https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/64358de9736114c96352edf9

It makes one wonder, why would anyone ever believe reports of people saying they can differentiate between psychedelics, when even an expert like Martin Ball isn't able to correctly identify his experience as a normal psilocybin trip.

Honestly, I wouldn't believe even Leo's report. I actively disbelieve his claim of having a higher sensitivity to psychedelics. From when Leo shared his dosage and trip report, it always had matched what to be expected from that dosage.

Sad news, because I have been interested in revival of this mushroom-make-new-substance concept, it would be really cool if true.

Just seeing this btw

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Girzo said:

How much would you say 5-MeO-MiPT differs from 5-MeO-MALT?

Is there a serious difference on a full dose?

They are very different.

[Leo Gura]

Making an appeal to "faith" here is pretty bad.

[Razard86]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:24 AM, Leo Gura said:

No.

My trips are as natural as it gets.

Only lately I have started to crack down on myself and get more rigorous because being too flowing leads to getting lost in distractions and not going really deep existentially. Getting more rigorous is where the serious gains happen.

If anything, you guys suffer from not being controlling enough with your trips, doing stupid stuff like watching cartoons and other distractions, when you should sitting still and introspecting.

It's easy to waste a trip doing silly things that feel fun.

1. This is an argument of expression. Your mind is more serious, more logic driven as a result you judge things like cartoons as distractions. There are NO distractions, there are no GAINS, only a logical mind that is too focused on results would see flowing, or creativity, or cartoons as distractions.

You are getting lost in ego, and as a result are contradicting yourself and many of your videos. How can an undifferientiated field of awareness that is only appearing to be different ever have anything be a distraction? To quote you Leo "Once you awaken there is no difference between anything as it is all being done FOR YOU. 

So there are no distractions unless you are trying to get some where....but here is the funny thing Leo. You can literally awaken through any avenue....Cartoons, Sports, Medicine, ANYTHING. An open mind, radically open mind can be transported through any avenue. It's the judgments, and the bias, that distorts this truth and creates antiquated methods of ONLY THIS WAY WILL AWAKEN YOU.

Don't play the same game the Gurus play of judging the path (how they judge psychedelics because it deviates from their method) I could literally teach if I wanted how you can awaken through Cartoons. In fact viewing Cartoons in a heighted consciousness can actually spontaneously give you insight into the interconnectedness of many things. 

I find the same happens with music as well. There are no wasted moments of consciousness, consciousness can connect everything together to provide an insight. 

[OBEler]

@Razard86 There are definitivey distractions in trips. dont mix the absolute with the relative otherwise it gets unpractical. Or do you like to marry your mom? because your girlfriend and your mom are the same. no difference...

 

[forestfog]

I have experimented with the churchs mushroom and can confirm it has a - albeit subtle - 5-MeO-DMT energy to it and doesn't build up tolerance. Different from psilocybin or DPT. The article claims they only found psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin in *their* sample suggesting people like me are having a placebo...:) 

The effect is gentle and can't be compared to 5-MeO in potency, but it does seem to pleasantly lower the minds reactivity serving thus as a good introductory for a full release 5-MeO-DMT session. 

[Girzo]

@forestfog I don't deny you having a unique experience.

I deny it comes from anything other than psilocybin.

Yes, it is placebo. Mind is a powerful force easily capable of changing experience subtly.

Provide more details on set and setting, like dosage, and what exactly you can pin point as differing from standard experience.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Girzo

[Thought Art]

On 2023-04-21 at 3:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

Making an appeal to "faith" here is pretty bad.

Can you clarify please?

Edited April 23, 2023 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

Can you clarify please?

The church is defending themselves by saying that their claims of these mushrooms containing 5-MeO was based of faith. That's a damning admission. They should have done a proper chemical analysis of their mushrooms.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Leo Gura