So I Have Been Recently Shown My Selfishness

[Razard86]

So there is a guy I met recently who is really into studying Metaphysics and Epistemology and he is HEAVILY into it I mean this guy could teach it as a Professor if he wanted too.  Me and him have talked to each other on and off again and as I have a forceful personality he was taken aback sometimes as we discussed. As I said before the guy is VERY INTELLIGENT but the issue is he is too dogmatic, puts many prophets on pedestals and still sees himself as some work in progress. He believe when he is so called "perfected" THAT is when his life will end. 

I have been telling him that he is already perfect as he is and he resists that message HEAVILY. He also does not understand that Love= The realization that there is no distinction which is another disagreement he has with me....which is so frustrating because I mean...its so obvious. Like once Leo made a video on that it just clicked...like a bomb went off in my head and it was like OF COURSE!!!!

If Reality wasn't Universal Love and devoid of distinction...distinction couldn't exist!! Also if Reality wasn't devoid of distinction...growth, change, impermanence couldn't be an aspect. It has to not be distinct, for it to be distinct. It cannot be ONE WAY, it has to be everyway....or we couldn't even have this imaginary world call life. 

The more I talked to him he kept telling me I was contradicting myself and I was like...its unfortunately an aspect when pointing to infinity. Anyway....what I realized is his biggest barrier to understanding himself as already perfect is because he was too attached to logic and distinction, and as a result couldn't realize what Love truly was. But one important message I also gained for myself through my interaction with him, is I kept forcefully trying to get him to realize this through various explanations and he was so smart he could talk himself through what I was saying even when I made a good point. No matter how many times I deconstructed his distinctions, he would avoid that and try to create more distinctions. Then he would start accusing me of making distinctions, to which I would explain that WORDS are distinctions so it can't be helped. Anyway it became some silly little egoic game.....but here is what I discovered through interactions with him.

I need to start offering suggestions, instead of telling someone directly how they should or shouldn't be because it can come across like I am trying to control them. So I should present my message whenever I communicate as, a suggestion so it doesn't come across as me giving orders or directives. At least that is how he interpreted my message. Its amazing how a person can argue with you that they shouldn't accept themselves as perfect just the way they are. Its proof positive when someone tells you why do I feel inadequate? Because you keep telling yourself you are, and you are very good at believing your own delusions. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Razard86

[integral]

You had to make him feel like he came up with the idea himself and then he would of believed it. 

[Guru Fat Bastard]

If it's not in their experience,then it's just an idea. You can only introduce the possibility. One strategy is through  a line of questioning such as "is it possible that you may be taking yourself to be something you're not"? Or, "Consider the possibility that you may be more than what you think you are".
"Without referring to thought, what are you?" "Body and mind are limitations,what are you beyond these limitations"?

You have to keep pointing to what is there, beyond the mental and physical aspects of existence. Until they experience something beyond these two limitations,then any statement that "you are perfect" or "you are god" or "love  and joy is your nature" are simply empty statements that require belief.
Experience doesn't need belief.

[Razard86]

55 minutes ago, integral said:

You had to make him feel like he came up with the idea himself and then he would of believed it. 

Lol normally this could work.....but like I said the man is very intelligent, the hardest people to communicate with about a potential blind spot are intelligent people. Its why I love Leo's realization that Love/Truth/Intelligence are ONE. This is what some Buddha practitioners and other groups will struggle with. When I tell you his belief in his being a work in progress is a core piece of his identity and is a construct he ties so much into his studies. 

I won't say its impossible as I understand that life is teaching the lesson that I am pointing him too which is the that everything is infinite love. But to put in perspective, he has died before, but it seems he is still struggling with his ego at the moment. But I agree with you that maybe...my approach was too direct. Sometimes to get someone to agree....you have to play the idiot, and as you say make themselves believe it was their idea. Let's just say maybe I'm too attached to not sounding stupid....lol. 

22 minutes ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

If it's not in their experience,then it's just an idea. You can only introduce the possibility. One strategy is through  a line of questioning such as "is it possible that you may be taking yourself to be something you're not"? Or, "Consider the possibility that you may be more than what you think you are".
"Without referring to thought, what are you?" "Body and mind are limitations,what are you beyond these limitations"?

You have to keep pointing to what is there, beyond the mental and physical aspects of existence. Until they experience something beyond these two limitations,then any statement that "you are perfect" or "you are god" or "love  and joy is your nature" are simply empty statements that require belief.
Experience doesn't need belief.

I wish this could work on him, he's shall we say too advanced. Any questioning I present in this manner he would take as an insult as he believes himself too advanced too be questioned in his manner, but too "impure" to be a Spiritual Master. He can teach the concepts, like I said the only part he is missing is the Love Awakening, outside of that the guy has a unique way of looking at the teachings in a way I have no seen others piece it together and express it. It is such an honor and wonder to see how different POV's can actually look at things and interpret it and express it.

Even though he has some dogma, he also is full of fresh interpretations. I would love to get him on the forums so he could express his POV, I just wish he could get the Love Awakening in his direct experience. He still is looking at reality from a numbers perspective trying to grasp it. And here is the kicker....he is VERY CREATIVE as well. He is a talented artist, his sketches are beautiful. So its confusing to me how a guy can be so developed both logically and creatively...and still have this blind spot. 

20 minutes ago, lxlichael said:

@Razard86 Imagine most peoples ego's as something that functions in the same way that you see a person prod, prop and decorate themselves in the mirror each morning for those that do. The mirror is a beautiful place to be for them and they trust it, it is giving them a reflection of truth so why would they judge it at all? They stand there, looking at themselves, preparing for their day, party, celebration, outing, date, sex or whatever it happens to be. Everything is working perfectly and everything else only requires some minor adjustments, changes and patience. The makeup, the hair, the eye liner or if you're more to the masculine whatever you require concerning the shaving, teeth, washing of the face or whatever it has to be, perhaps just checking to see if that's a new "birth mark" you're noticing and if it is are there others? This... is the perfect reflection of what the ego is doing in every single moment in the context of truth discernment but only truth discernment in the context of the ego. An ego that, of course, is at its own unique level of development, is connected with a certain level of operational cognitive and emotional capacities, along with all the relational ties it has to this reality that are of existential, social and linguistic in nature, various forms of "existence languages" which make up the formatting of the feedback loop that the ego learns as a routine to follow in the mirror. It is only when the ego begins to question what they see in the mirror do they find something new about themselves. 

"Is this a blue strand of hair (if you have pure green hair)? This is odd." A person says while looking in the mirror.

And so they investigate a little further that either yes it is, no its not or perhaps it was something entirely, perhaps they imagined the blue strand of hair altogether. 

When the person is done they switch off the blue light and they go back into the real world where the world either confirms that they have blue hair or informs them of the mistake and they become combative until any number of pathways are taken until either they change their mind or maintain their perspective. 

In this thought experiment, the ego is the mirror itself. It's you believing you're in a state of truth because you're the one looking in the mirror and so therefore you can ABSOLUTELY CONFIRM that this is the truth, not realising that the mirrors reflection was being constructed by the reality of the environment, so inclusive of the green light and the biases of their cognitive, emotional and experiential development on the information gleaned from the reflection. 

In the development of the ego, the most difficult thing to do is to not only question the ego but to question it in a way in which you're still in touch with truth discernment that'll be able to still move you in the right direction while handling the dissonance of still potentially being in the incorrect position. The ability to resolve this dissonance is related to a persons ability to resolve distinctions, discriminations and differences that emerge in the manifestation of the known and unknown world in their realisation of truth in the context of falsity. Questioning as well has to not only be done on a cognitive level but on a emotional and generalised energetic level in order to manifest a truth alignment that is congruent still with the resolving of that dissonance without the ego fooling itself. That's like running back and fourth on a see saw as gently as possible and sometimes as quickly as possible in order to maintain balance. Moreover, an even smaller percentage of people not only struggle with the questioning of what they see in the mirror but the entire mirror itself as a construct for the discernment of the reality of their position itself while maintaining this balance. This is another and or in part the meaning of the scene in the film The Matrix where Neo's finger touches the mirror in the glass and it to his amazement begins to engulf him. That started response he has is the definition of the ego being forced to question its reality while going through an ego backlash, many people fail to make it through the denial and regardless as to whether if someone does, whether they have gone far enough in their discernment is always dissonance they will both have to come to terms with and for those that are still serious about the pursuit towards truth, still maintain motivation towards pushing themselves further. That see-saw between heaven and hell in many ways.

This goes for him. It goes for you. It goes for our interpretation of the both of you through this framework. 

 

 

I love you man....but your post....is rather complex, it would need deciphering. I would describe your post artistically like so vague...so open too interpretation, that you could call it art. Now I could attempt to decipher it, but along with complexity you also hit me with length....so I have complexity and length to contend with.....I understand the love of complexity is your thing, but unless you can deliver a message in a digestible way... it will get lost.

Currently...I can get the gist of what you are saying....do you want people to ONLY get the gist? Or do you want them to understand it at deeper levels? Here is a counter-intuitive insight.....the more simple your message....the deeper its complexity. The more complex your message....the more simplistic it is. Why? If you make it too complex....only you will understand it and others...can only grasp the edges....if you make it simple...they can turn it around, twist it, and play with it and discover ever more ways of looking at it.

[michaelcycle00]

I’m not trying to stir the pot but some of us try to “improve” because the entire world has told us that we’re inadequate with words AND actions. I’m rarely respected and lots of people try to take advantage of me because I look physically weak (I’m really skinny but it’s genetic so even when I’m eating nearly 4,000 calories a day I don’t get any bigger, and I can barely eat that much anyway). Not to mention I got heavily physically bullied during my school years, so if you think it’s as easy as ignoring them you are very wrong…. Actually hahaha now that I mention it when I did ignore them it got worse. So I’m trying to IMPROVE and get strong and capable so that I no longer leave the state of my well-being in some dumbasses hands - I’ll happily force them to respect me if I have to. This is my biggest ick with Psychedelic/meditation realizations, have absolutely 0 basis in the reality of the NOW but instead in some sort of perfect reality that as of now it simply does not exist. Literally can’t apply any of the realizations in a meaningful manner. I’ve read countless trip reports with realizations such as: “why do you let time dictate what you do or where you go” right like I don’t have a job to go to so I don’t starve to death; “dress conduct is the most dumb thing to be created by humans” right I’ll just go to this private school in sweatpants so they don’t let me enter class”. One dude even had a realization on DMT that he shouldn’t have any fear even if he was having a stroll in the middle of the night in a rainforest village of cannibals in Africa… like, huh?

Edited November 7, 2022 by michaelcycle00

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 It's hard for your colleague to be surprised. Most of you, if not all of you on this formula, are very intelligent people, often experienced by life as well. But what I say now will not be pleasant, nor will it be about spiritual growth. In many, many statements on this forum, there are statements, statements so absurd, illogical, and inconsistent that if God were to imagine this universe - it would blow itself up at once - due to the lack of internal consistency and logic. I am not saying that there are no universes that operate on some alien logic (perhaps n-dimensional space manifests in n-ways) or that exist based on no logic (as a little human, it is hard to imagine it yourself). Nevertheless, this manifestation in which you experience being human is marked by logic and consistency. We have so far discovered 42 physical constants. I'm not talking about the theories we build from them. They evolve. But physical constants don't evolve. If any of them evolved over time so that their value changed to 33 decimal places, that familiar manifestation of the universe collapses into a cu**. Change the charge of the electron, the proton's mass, or the matter's density. These physical constants enable any evolution of this known universe, including the evolution of life as we know it. And there are absurd statements here that mathematics is imagination. I can counter the claim that such a statement is rubbish taken out of a hat. Experiencing God and understanding God are two separate things. You can talk about the Absolute - you can try to conceptualize it linguistically for the purpose of communication - if you have made a minimal effort to reflect on what the Infinity is. Most of you here talk about Infinity with absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Because it is not easy to talk about Infinite using finite language. There is only one, a universal language that is truly infinite. And it's as logical as young can imagine. And this is mathematics. Much of the speech here is marked by emotional exaltation, which often ends the entire debate. Who is not as high, is out. In this way, a circle of mutual adoration of people inspired by the vision of being God, Super Alien God, or whatever you come up with is created. Like you don't realize that Infinity has infinite space for every experience, every manifestation. And it will never stop. You will never HAVE a full God realization because such a thing does not exist. There will be always something more to explore. But this is not the case in the first place I suppose. For most people here, at least.

Sat Nam

[Razard86]

9 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

I’m not trying to stir the pot but some of us try to “improve” because the entire world has told us that we’re inadequate with words AND actions. I’m rarely respected and lots of people try to take advantage of me because I look physically weak (I’m really skinny but it’s genetic so even when I’m eating nearly 4,000 calories a day I don’t get any bigger, and I can barely eat that much anyway). Not to mention I got heavily physically bullied during my school years, so if you think it’s as easy as ignoring them you are very wrong…. Actually hahaha now that I mention it when I did ignore them it got worse. So I’m trying to IMPROVE and get strong and capable so that I no longer leave the state of my well-being in some dumbasses hands - I’ll happily force them to respect me if I have to. This is my biggest ick with Psychedelic/meditation realizations, have absolutely 0 basis in the reality of the NOW but instead in some sort of perfect reality that as of now it simply does not exist. Literally can’t apply any of the realizations in a meaningful manner. I’ve read countless trip reports with realizations such as: “why do you let time dictate what you do or where you go” right like I don’t have a job to go to so I don’t starve to death; “dress conduct is the most dumb thing to be created by humans” right I’ll just go to this private school in sweatpants so they don’t let me enter class”. One dude even had a realization on DMT that he shouldn’t have any fear even if he was having a stroll in the middle of the night in a rainforest village of cannibals in Africa… like, huh?

 I'm pretty sure I got bullied more than you do currently. How do I know? Because I have gotten into fights from 1st grade all the way to the 11th grade and also my freshmen year. Also two years ago some random 6'5 230lb plus guy tried to fight me in a CAFE because he believed when I walked in an aisle I brushed against his leg (I didn't) without saying "Excuse me." The situation ended peacefully fortunately.

I can tell you what your issue is as I use to be in your same boat. The reason people mess with you HAS NOTHING to do with how you look, but how you CARRY yourself. If you carry yourself as someone NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH, that actually lowers the likelihood that others will attempt to mess with you. Also not gaining weight is an issue you only have when you are young, when you hit your 30's that problem will completely disappear.

Now you said psychedelic realizations have no absolute basis in reality? That is a statement of complete ignorance. All realizations have 100 percent basis in reality....are you kidding me? The fact you think this means you aren't taking it seriously and are still too full of fear and selfishness.

Here are some ways it has a basis.

1. Everything you see IS YOUR MIND. So explain to me...how discovering that everything is your freaking MIND and you are completely and utterly FOOLING yourself that you are in a physical universe not applicable? Explain to ME how this isn't THE MOST APPLICABLE REALIZATION EVER?

2. If everything is your mind...why don't you figure out how your THOUGHTS, and EMOTIONS are influencing your reality? Instead of complaining about people using psychedelics for love realizations...why don't YOU USE THEM to see in real-time how your thoughts and emotions are changing your reality. You see psychedelics SPEED UP your reality and allow you to see how you changing your reality through your own POV. What you call LIFE is just your freaking mind.

3. Lastly psychedelics can make you have an EGO DEATH which is the SAME AS WHAT WE CALL DEATH. There is no distinction, the only difference is you didn't have to harm the physical body to do it. Once you DIE you realize...THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR and you are IMMORTAL. 

So notice the above I just mentioned....there is nothing else more important than this work. Once you realize how you influence your reality you can take accountability for how your thoughts and emotions influence it and take charge. You also are able to DROP YOUR VICTIM MENTALITY. How ARE YOU A VICTIM OF YOUR OWN MIND? ITS YOUR MIND!!! You also realize you cannot die, so your fears can start to fall away as you integrate this. 

So yes psychedelics are VERY APPLICABLE, there is NOTHING MORE APPLICABLE than Spirituality. Spirituality answers EVERY FREAKING QUESTION. It is the last stage in this game of life. Because its about dropping all the illusions that you are creating and you create MANY illusions.

Oh and I use to be very into physical fitness, here is how I use to look back in my 20's. 

Physical Fitness, Money, Status, Women, all these goals and pursuits only give you small dopamine boosts...they don't fix your core issues which are always...based on self-love. When you can be at your lowest in those categories and still love yourself the same as if you were hitting on all cylinders then you have achieved emotional mastery and have truly awakened to the mind game of illusions you are creating. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Razard86

[Razard86]

I posted the above picture because it relates to this clip by Leo. 

Every goal only gives you spikes....and then you return to baseline. The whole point of awakening is to realize that the baseline IS happiness and how to stay and connect to it NO MATTER what situation you are in. And as this video talks about you can raise that baseline through repetition. 

So again Spirituality answers all questions and gives you the power to change your life like no other medium out there because it actually takes you to the source instead of treating the symptoms.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Razard86

[wesyasz]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

1. Everything you see IS YOUR MIND. So explain to me...how discovering that everything is your freaking MIND and you are completely and utterly FOOLING yourself that you are in a physical universe not applicable? Explain to ME how this isn't THE MOST APPLICABLE REALIZATION EVER?

2. If everything is your mind...why don't you figure out how your THOUGHTS, and EMOTIONS are influencing your reality? Instead of complaining about people using psychedelics for love realizations...why don't YOU USE THEM to see in real-time how your thoughts and emotions are changing your reality. You see psychedelics SPEED UP your reality and allow you to see how you changing your reality through your own POV. What you call LIFE is just your freaking mind.

3. Lastly psychedelics can make you have an EGO DEATH which is the SAME AS WHAT WE CALL DEATH. There is no distinction, the only difference is you didn't have to harm the physical body to do it. Once you DIE you realize...THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR and you are IMMORTAL. 

So notice the above I just mentioned....there is nothing else more important than this work. Once you realize how you influence your reality you can take accountability for how your thoughts and emotions influence it and take charge. You also are able to DROP YOUR VICTIM MENTALITY. How ARE YOU A VICTIM OF YOUR OWN MIND? ITS YOUR MIND!!! You also realize you cannot die, so your fears can start to fall away as you integrate this. 

Now, open to the possibility, that reality and life aren't "your" mind, but the Mind itself. Just as you speak about "your" thoughts and emotions that influence "your" reality. Ego death, or death, however we call it, is something that reveals exactly that the ownership of all of it is illusory. All of that you experience is exactly for a reason to realize another form of ego built up. Don't you see? Who is telling the story even about its own death? Are you sure that the realization is that you cannot die, or is it that there is no one to die? 

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, Byun Sean said:

why are you trying to shove ideas down someones throat whos not open to it lol.

What are you some christian missionary? lmao

 

You see him as imperfect so you need to tell him your ideology to change him into who you want him to be.

 

And yet you are teaching him verbally to view himself as perfect. The irony lol.

Lol I love the projection. How am I shoving ideas down his throat. Please explain how words on a screen which he can completely dismiss is shoving words down someone's throat? This is exactly what I am talking about. You reveal you have a victim mentality and claim someone is taking away power.

Here is the things he can do. 1. Ignore my post. 2. Block me. Oh my GOSH look at that!!! He has the ability to take charge of his life. But NO!!! Through your perspective...HE IS A VICTIM!!! So you project your victim based mentality onto me and him because THAT IS HOW YOU SEE LIFE!!!

Thank you for revealing and illuminating your mindset. Keep it coming. 

6 minutes ago, wesyasz said:

Now, open to the possibility, that reality and life aren't "your" mind, but the Mind itself. Just as you speak about "your" thoughts and emotions that influence "your" reality. Ego death, or death, however we call it, is something that reveals exactly that the ownership of all of it is illusory. All of that you experience is exactly for a reason to realize another form of ego built up. Don't you see? Who is telling the story even about its own death? Are you sure that the realization is that you cannot die, or is it that there is no one to die? 

Its both however you want to look at it. The NO SELF/TRUE SELF debate is ongoing its why I say reality is a neutral and however you perceive it is based on what you project onto it. There is only a couple Absolute Truths, that reality is infinite, its love, its intelligent, and it is non sense. Other than that you can perceive and interpret however you want to interpret it.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Razard86

[wesyasz]

I know, you are right about the paradox - I do not exist, and yet I am.
There is only one Absolute, one Truth, and it is Love. It's not possible to communicate it to anyone, to convince anyone. If you truly want to communicate the truth to your guy, just love him. There is no other way, you cannot speak it, the moment you speak it, you'll get further away from it. 

[Razard86]

14 hours ago, lxlichael said:

 . I don't write for others outside of speaking to them via private message, I give things the necessary complexity for the issue. If I dumb myself down then I lose the audience I want to reach and if I successfully reach the "larger demographic" here, I lose areas for my own personal growth that need to be pressured and expanded upon when I write. 

I don't care for validation or approval.

I am able to be of service based on specific questions that others may wish to pose based on what I write.

I do write for others in the public sense, however there is a balance that is ultimately needed for my hand.

For you, given you have made this as a personal request, I shall adhere to it with honour.

......The whole purpose of communication is to transmit information you have to the individual or masses you are speaking too. If you don't write for others....then you are admitting to sharing just to get attention. If I speak to an individual my message is being addressed to that individual. Also...you aren't dumbing yourself down, adding complexity is not making something more profound its actually doing the opposite.

The sign of a master of a topic is the ability to explain it at all levels, if you can only express your thought in a way that only you understand...then that message serves nobody. If your message cannot serve anybody...then what is the point of sharing your message? Its like me giving people a Car that only I can drive and telling them that I'm not dumbing down my Car for them....then...don't give them the Car....just keep it to yourself because clearly....its only for you.

[Razard86]

19 minutes ago, wesyasz said:

I know, you are right about the paradox - I do not exist, and yet I am.
There is only one Absolute, one Truth, and it is Love. It's not possible to communicate it to anyone, to convince anyone. If you truly want to communicate the truth to your guy, just love him. There is no other way, you cannot speak it, the moment you speak it, you'll get further away from it. 

I completely agree....great insight your answer is really the answer to all of life's problems lol.

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, lxlichael said:

And if you believe that communication is for the purpose to be understood, as much as it is the responsibility of the writer, for their purposes, to write in a way that they’re understood… wouldn’t you agree that the purpose of writing back to someone is to do so in a way where you’re attempting to understand them?

 

^No I do not think its the recipient's job to figure out what you are saying...this is how things get misinterpreted, the less clear you are the more likely you are going to be misunderstood. If you want your message to be open to interpretation like a Picasso painting then that is fine, but if the goal of your communication is to get your message received then you need to do your darnest to achieve that result to the best of your ability.

The problem with intellectual types is they love to use word salad and big words to flex their intellect. Its not different than somebody like me who loves to write and talk, I clearly love to hear myself speak and write. That's not an issue, but if I enjoy that activity personally I am going to do my best to be understood. 

The only job of the receiver is to NOT INTENTIONALLY try to misunderstand you, but they should not have to make an effort to understand you. If they do that is on the speaker NOT the recipient. I'll give another example...if I am cooking for someone and I want them to appreciate my food, should I force them to comply with my tastes? Or should I cook in a way that palatable for them? The key to not being selfish, is to look at how your actions impact others and drop the need for others to adjust to you. The only time others should adjust is if they are trolling you and if they are, just ignore them because their goal is to irritate you lol.

Now your issue is an issue we all have from time to time, I don't like simplifying some things but I have learned over time that if I am speaking and nobody understands me....I'm better off speaking to a wall. Now we both know in truth...there is no difference between speaking to a wall and a person....but...don't you want to enjoy the illusion of an other that you are speaking too? If not...totally disregard what I am saying LOL.

[Heart of Space]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:12 PM, Razard86 said:

Lol I love the projection. How am I shoving ideas down his throat. Please explain how words on a screen which he can completely dismiss is shoving words down someone's throat? This is exactly what I am talking about. You reveal you have a victim mentality and claim someone is taking away power.

Here is the things he can do. 1. Ignore my post. 2. Block me. Oh my GOSH look at that!!! He has the ability to take charge of his life. But NO!!! Through your perspective...HE IS A VICTIM!!! So you project your victim based mentality onto me and him because THAT IS HOW YOU SEE LIFE!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.  

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Couldn't have said it better myself.  

1. There are states you can reach...where you discover that the present moment you are currently experiencing....is a complete an utter mental construction. Mathematics? Do you not realize that mathematics can only exist if you have sensory perception? Explain to me does mathematics exist when you are in deep sleep? 

2. You talk about mathematics so lets continue, the more science studies the Universe they keep learning how things are interconnected. Ancient tribes KNEW things like the Stars and Planets impacted our environment and that information is not currently accepted by Western Science. But they can at least admit the Moon impacts the Earth. What if you were to realize....that all of the galaxies that currently exist in the Universe were all influencing each other? 

How would you feel if you discovered that distance doesn't exist, that everything is perfectly connected  to each other and so all life is being controlled and controlling each other simultaneously? What would you say about MATHEMATICS then? HUMANS created mathematics, Alien representations of what we call Math if they have discovered how to transcend the limits we currently have in our construction and modeling of the universe would have mathematics that reflect that distance....is imaginary.

Something you don't seem to understand...is HOW CAN YOU HAVE MATH IF ALL MEASUREMENT IS IMAGINARY!!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/

 

  Go and read this....if LOCATION doesn't exist, and DISTANCE doesn't exist, then that means ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE ILLUSION. 

So now you have a conundrum about your so called Mathematics and Science. You see knowledge and its applicability is entirely relativistic and the broader in scope you go the more and more you start to realize....that previous knowledge isn't applicable anymore. 

Humanity is in the Dark Ages when it comes to knowledge and that is due to our biases. If we could stop playing games and become more honest then we could do REAL SCIENCE. How do you deny the connection between your own mind and what you deem real and unreal. Do you realize how childish we would look to a more advanced species? They would LAUGH AT US. Because of our dishonesty intellectually it took us 2000 years to discover what Mystics were saying 5000 years ago!!! THIS is why Leo says there is no difference between Truth and Love.

You can't even find truth, if you succumb to your biases. What use is double blind procedures, and all your other attempts to get rid of bias...when that bias...overlays your own reality. What if every Scientist you have in your industry shares the same bias? Then they will never discover the TRUTH no matter how many models they use.

This bias can not only be seen in Science...but in entire civilizations. Its why we have a lack of parity and so much discrimination and confusion because every POV thinks it knows what's true and believes it operates in a physical objective reality. That one big assumption....screwed EVERYTHING UP!!! LOL!!
 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Razard86

[Lila9]

The more you try to control someone or something, the more resistance you get. By your attepmts of wanting him to think like you, instead of convincing him in something that might be valubale to him, you just create contempt towards your ideas.

When you try to control someone he has no reason to be controlled by you, unless you some horrible emperor who's his life depends on your mercy, he has no good reason to accept your authority, especially if he is an intelligent person. 

When you feel like you have a good grasp on something and you feel that the other person doesn't have it, it might be beneficial to introduce it in non judgmental, not attached way. Let go of your attchment of him thinking the same way as you or agree with you, in that way his energy would be focused on what you say instead of being focused on defending its ego. 

You need to find a way to overcome person's ego if you want him to listen to you. It's a form of art, I think that it's the same form of art that good sells people master.

If he's passionate about Epistemology and Metaphysics, he may get to your conclusions by himself in the future.

Anyway, both of your perspectives are correct. It's true for him that he is still in the process, he has an intellectual modesty which is awesome, he understands that he has more to achieve and improve himself as a mortal human being, and on the other hand, it's also true that he is perfect as he is, from God's pov.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Lila9

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 First of all, you can post here and enjoy your comfy western life because humanity have discovered and is discovering laws of Nature of this particular 3-dimensional space + time manifestation in which you, as infinite consciousness, incarnates into the imagined experience of being human in imagined 3D space + time. Is this so hard to understand? This imagined manifestation has its imagined, but very precise laws and encoded description of its nature. Which btw points towards something much, much bigger than you, as a human, can even imagine. This is all for your enjoyment, for sake of thrill of exploration. Where do you find a problem, if may I ask?

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 infinity welcomes everything. Mathematics is included??. Maybe you still need awaken to that???

[Kuba Powiertowski]

 Do you know that you cannot lie in mathematics? It's really the most beautyful language fot me...