Danioover9000

Limits of left politics part 2.

12 posts in this topic

   What a really good video, builds so nicely with the previous one:

   Compare and contrast this with one of Destiny's:

and

   Just not high quality enough and too partisan and biased compared to Leo's take.

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   1:55:00 to 2:05:00 roughly, Leo does bring up good points about how stage green's pursuit of moral relativism, demonizing tradition morals, national morals and religious morals does lead to degradation of most parts of societies. I especially agree with him bringing up the weed and violent rap music part, there were some loosely related science experiments on water and plants, and both had two parts. The first water jug/plant had orchestral and/or spiritually themed music playing, along with a person saying nice and kind phrases to the plant/water jug. The opposite happened for the second plant and water jug, it had heavy metal rock and harsh things said to the [lant and water jug. When the samples were collected from both, and studied under a microscope, the first plant/water jug showed much greater unity and solidness of particles from the loving treatment and soothing orchestral/spiritual music, whereas the second plant/water jug had more deformed and rougher structures that formed.

   I like to think I have had an influence on Leo's choice of examples. It could have been heavy metal rock, or horrific gory paintings, or darker themed artwork, but no, it had to specifically be rap music. ?

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At university I am around so much stage green extremists I just gave up discussing whenever they start talking about any political issue, despite being a leftist myself. Open-mindedness is preached everywhere but it's hard to find someone who isn't blind by ideological rage.

They have open "debates" but any slightly different ideas that go against their values are heavily repressed, ironically.

I do empathize with them though

Edited by Espaim

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I think this second part was much better than the previous one. Many good points indeed.

Not gonna lie, stung a few times ;)

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I've been following for Leo's content for years now, but I think my appreciation for his work is at an all-time high. You don't see many teachers like this that can make so many good points on such a diverse set of subjects.

I think the biggest thing I took from this mini-series is just to have way more patience when it comes to politics and people's growth in general. Appreciate that you have had massive privileges and sit at the top of the spiral. And don't be so eager for change that you underestimate the intelligence of things already in place. Even when a society is ready to move up the spiral, there are still going to be big challenges with integration as the old falls away.


 

 

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agreed, I love challenging my own worldview, but it did leave me with a question. 

 valid criticism is that we are getting soft as a society with all our creature comforts and survival aint as cutthroat as it used to be. 

Leo says that we shouldn't coddle people and should make sure there is a challenge in life, but what does this entail? obviously, I highly respect the Amish, but society can't go back to those times, the toothpaste is out of the tube. 

I think Leo strawmans a bit, not that many people are content with just sitting on the couch all day watching NetFlix nor do I think that having an "easier" society will make this. there is an inert human drive to accomplish things, I just think we have to reimagine how society looks, its stupid to think that we will always be competing as society evolves and yes while there won't be people who create the same amount of value as others, we can't all be Elon musk or Jeff Bezos, so in that case, I think making survival easier will be good.

I don't think reality is dumb enough anyway, it has a trickster element to it, once we solve the problem of a hard survival life with creature comforts Ubi, etc, there will be other problems we don't even know that will come up. just wanted to hear your thoughts. There will always be a challenge to life, it's just a matter of the degree of how much challenge "the majority" of people should or could tolerate.

 

I do get a bit triggered by the advent that we should not try to make life easier because that will eliminate growth,

i think that if society ever got to a point where people en masse were complaining that life is too easy and life is boring and unchallenging then that would be a good time to address this notion,

 but the reality is that there is a shit ton of people through no fault of their own on the streets or maybe people who cant blossom into a fully-fledged human being without assistance by a compassionate hand whether it be governmental or individual.

I think that is one of my critiques of Leo's point, if everyone is challenged and struggling with basic survival and this is good, to me it makes for a much worse society than could be actualized when basic survival is met within reason for everyone.

I mean take me for example, i am disabled and i get disability money, but by no means is the challenge of life over.

I still struggle to master emotions, being compassionate, and understanding reality, integrating my shadow, seeing reality as it is and not how I want it to be and becoming more educated, I'm definitely not ambitious materially but there are many things i want to try and luckily not having to worry and slave at a 9-5 has given me that freedom.

I think maximizing human autonomy and our freedom to spend our time in whichever way we please is more important than forcing people to struggle for their survival.

i mean you could always adopt an ancient culture way of putting people through vision quests or rights of passage ( fasting, pilgrimage, boy scout bear Grylls type shit) to teach them the value of struggle, but i don't think in a civilized society of the future it should be a default reality for people.

In the other thread Leo you talked about how black people being systemically enslaved and oppressed for 250 years as a group ruins their IQ and other societal factors, to a way lesser degree imagine what this wage slavery and paycheck-to-paycheck living is doing to people, and we shouldn't try to alleviate that? and if you disagree to what extent is healthy/unhealthy?

plus there is always the truth that for the most beautiful society/garden you cant have all of the same flowers doing the same shit, some people are going to contribute little to nothing of "use" and just look pretty  like mystics, poets, artists, (flowers), some are going to be vegetables and have some use and value to nearly everyone, sure also there will be weeds but those will hopefully be in the minority, im not dumb enough to think this garden couldnt be overrun by weeds but i just think more plants can grow in well tended to environment. 

i might be spewing bullshit but to me this is  my perspective that I've absorbed.

 

we gotta balance our notions of challenge and growth with the reality of the person's ability to respond to it. i think over a mass scale the solution is to help out.

and if you think this is all a big cope because i don't want to provide value to society, my answer would be I probably agree. i am so far outside the norm of a typical human being that i basically believe i cant functionally contribute in the way most people want me to. so my pseudo-life purpose is for advocating for an easier survival for all, 

we do live in the dark ages and yes I am naive for expecting change so soon, but if the ideal isn't working together to make things easier and more autonomous for all to actualize a better life than i want no part in this game, reality is better off without this dream character

Edited by Gidiot

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Remember, this video series was focused on excesses of the far left. It does not mean that we can't improve systems and make them better. We can, we should, and we will.

You could not stop society from improving even if you wanted to. This the conservatives learn the hard way.

Government needs to be improved in ways that doesn't coddle or hand-hold people too much.

For example, why don't we have a government program that helps people develop self-discipline, or helps people become more creative, or more productive? That would be better than just mailing people checks. Or it might be better for government to offer jobs rather than giving out checks. Stuff like that, where you have to earn it and learn skills in the process. Rather than free university maybe it's better if students have to work for it a bit to earn it, like through some voulenteer work.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Personally I don't really care too much about Leo's specific policy proposals in the videos. I think they are likely hit or miss.

What I do think is gold is the way Leo is seemingly trying to think about it. In terms of a system. If you do X and want Y to occur, also Z, A and C will occur as well, and if you want to be in government, I think you need to take total responsibility for the choices you make.

I.e. it could be that the LGTBQ+ movement actually leads to more people getting raped, say because of an ego backlash by an angry male sub-demographic. 

Orange thinks it does this, imo, but to me its painfully unaware of its self bias, i.e. treats science as unbiased when science has a lot of self-bias.

Green also, imo, gets arrogant about its awareness of social constructs and doesn't take into account the needs that are met by these social constructs existing

In a way its like you gotta think about it like you're making a zoo. I.e. if a gorilla dies in your zoo, you as the zookeeper say what did we do such that this event occurred. You don't blame the freaking gorilla. Side note rip harambe. 

Edited by Ulax

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4 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Personally I don't really care too much about Leo's specific policy proposals in the videos. I think they are likely hit or miss.

I didn't make any.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura You said things like what you said here in your video, to my recollection.

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, why don't we have a government program that helps people develop self-discipline, or helps people become more creative, or more productive? That would be better than just mailing people checks. Or it might be better for government to offer jobs rather than giving out checks. Stuff like that, where you have to earn it and learn skills in the process. Rather than free university maybe it's better if students have to work for it a bit to earn it, like through some voulenteer work.

Would you not say this is you making a policy proposal?


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Those are just generic examples.

This video series was not about any particular policies. It was about where the left goes too far.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Gidiot I agree on many points here. In sweden we have all of these things. Ofc it isn't "free" because we pay very high taxes, but still the goverment takes care of everything. All you have to worry about is wake up and go to work and the goverment will take care of you. You go to school for free and if you wanna go to univeristy that is also completley free, so there is no reason to not get an education for socioeconomic resons. When you graduate and get a job and lose that job you get "A-kassa" that will pay 80% of your salary for the first 100 days. If you get sick you will get insurance that is based in your yearly earnings (And yes we have free therapy). If all of thoes fail you get on social security which will pay rent, food, electricity and even wifi!  We have all of these things (and we have had it for a long time) and the country is considered to be among the most innovative countires in the world. So does it really make people dumber? Becuase it doesn't seem like it, quite the opposite. More people are getting educations which in turns helps the society to grow.

Edited by Bad_anarchist

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