Anyone know of a Yogi or Zen Master that uses Psychedelics?

[Razard86]

I think it maybe possible that there is one out there who does. I haven't actually looked but was curious if anyone knows of one.

[puporing]

Shunyamurti seems to have but he doesn't talk about it much and probably not using extensively though that's just my assumption on the ladder.

[Consilience]

Interesting how the overwhelming majority of masters have walked away from these tools huh? Im not aware of any that use psychedelics regularly. In the past as part of their spiritual journeys, sure. 

[Godishere]

@Consilience because they probably want to play the "yogi" or "master" character.

[Consilience]

16 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@Consilience because they probably want to play the "yogi" or "master" character.

Right. Couldn’t be any sort of deep cultivation of wisdom and clarity from enormous amounts of practice. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Consilience

[Godishere]

@Consilience I'm just speculating obviously. What's left to do after realizing you are one?

[Consilience]

8 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@Consilience I'm just speculating obviously. What's left to do after realizing you are one?

Well exactly (not being sarcastic this time). Once the fundamental point has be realized, there is little need to dramatically alter one‘s state. The truth is as it is in all moments, otherwise it wouldn’t be the truth. 
 

However out of compassion for others, there may still be the motivation to purify the mind. Purification = the cultivation of virtue, character, integrity, etc. Or the joy for creating a life well lived in a relative sense. 

[Jodistrict]

The scribes of the vedas talked about  "soma".  That would be a good place to start an investigation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_(drink)

[Godishere]

8 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Well exactly (not being sarcastic this time). Once the fundamental point has be realized, there is little need to dramatically alter one‘s state. The truth is as it is in all moments, otherwise it wouldn’t be the truth. 
 

However out of compassion for others, there may still be the motivation to purify the mind. Purification = the cultivation of virtue, character, integrity, etc. Or the joy for creating a life well lived in a relative sense. 

Yeah but isn't God just playing a game here. Compassion for who? All of those qualities are just survival mechanisms for the illusory self.

You're right the truth has always been and will always be here, now. But how conscious are you of that? Probably not very, otherwise you wouldn't you be trying to wake up "others".

A great reason why you would avoid psychedelics is because they are terrifying and reveal the truth which you have hidden in a bunch of lies. What fun is living knowing you're it for eternity. You can say I'm parroting Leo if you want but I have experienced the truth through psychedelics many times and I know for a fact that this is a game. A very serious game which I'm also very attached to and don't want to end. 

 

 

[Consilience]

33 minutes ago, Godishere said:

Yeah but isn't God just playing a game here. Compassion for who? All of those qualities are just survival mechanisms for the illusory self.

Compassion for your self. How awake are you really when the totality of existence is marred in illusion and ignorance? The compassion I speak of is totally transrational, totally transcendent of mind and will never make sense to the ego who’s adopted solipsism as a belief system. 
 

Quote

You're right the truth has always been and will always be here, now. But how conscious are you of that? Probably not very, otherwise you wouldn't you be trying to wake up "others".

Notice how the ego mind is trying to create rationalizations and draw logical conclusions. Again, what Im talking about is so far beyond the self clinging mind, it will never make sense. However, notice, if it werent for other beings and to some extent the whole of realty attempting to wake you up, you would have never stumbled into the truth. It’s only out of the compassion of these masters, and more deeply, the compassion from the self that you are in a position to be speaking from truth. Don’t take credit and don’t underestimate how dependent you were on reality for waking you up, like a child to its mother. That compassionate force that conspired to wake you up may or may not proliferate in your body mind, thus continuing this cycle of self-awakening in other beings. 
 

If what I said about others cannot be reconciled with the illusion of others, you haven’t awakened to the true depths of solipsism.

Quote

A great reason why you would avoid psychedelics is because they are terrifying and reveal the truth which you have hidden in a bunch of lies. What fun is living knowing you're it for eternity. You can say I'm parroting Leo if you want but I have experienced the truth through psychedelics many times and I know for a fact that this is a game. A very serious game which I'm also very attached to and don't want to end. 
 

No. The reason masters don’t use psychedelics is the realizations they provide are a waking, moment by moment, lived and embodied reality for the master. Of course this goes against the actualized.org dogma, cuts through a certain flavor of closed mindedness the forum has adopted. 

I never claimed you were parroting Leo. It is interesting you offer that up and attempt to side step it though. 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Consilience

[Thought Art]

There are many people who do both who just aren't teachers nor are they famous... many retreats in mexico etc offer this kind of thing

[Razard86]

I really am getting tired of people trying to separate the ego. You cannot separate the ego. You cannot talk non duality then create separation.

The ego is just as much a part of God as the part of God that is no self. The distinction is made between the ego to find the no self as the ego is the veil that prevents no self being realized. Once no self is truly realized, you discover the ego and the no self are ONE. 

This is why no matter what you accomplish, even if you enter the state of no self, even if you were to completely annihilate the ego and and become infinite you would still be the awareness that is I AM. 

You cannot escape I AM. There will always be I AM whether formless or form. So please stop the demonization of the ego, it is through ignorance this happens. This has been revealed to me and I realize it might be the biggest trap of all. Demonization of the ego, makes you keep searching. True enlightment reveals there is nothing to search for. I truly understand what they mean....you have always been enlightened. The search was all illusion, the separation is illusion you are already one. 

You have constructed a false belief of what God is (your true self is) as long as you keep searching for this imaginary concept you have created of what God your true self is....you will search for eternity. Maybe that's what you want?

[Consilience]

12 hours ago, Godishere said:

@Consilience I'm just speculating obviously. What's left to do after realizing you are one?

Somehow missed this question, my bad. In short, purification. 

Purification has to two main consequences as far as I can tell,

1) The frequency of clearly experiencing the truth increases. The moments where there is mindfulness, attention recognizes the truth, when there is headlessness, ignorance of the truth.

2) The way the body mind expresses the truth increases. This involves the uprooting of the conditions of suffering and conditions which block deep emotional, human oriented well being, virtue, integrity, fearlessness, authenticity, energy, etc. 

Furthermore, there also seems to be depths and degrees to which one can realize the truth yet this is somehow in accord with the truth being completely absolute and always present. How this so is an active inquiry for me and where I personally don’t have much clarity around. It seems to be as though Im running into absolute paradox. Continued practice usually involves this deepening. 

[Inliytened1]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I think it maybe possible that there is one out there who does. I haven't actually looked but was curious if anyone knows of one.

Because they didn't need psychedelics.   Leo is the only master I know of.  I didn't need them.

[Breakingthewall]

most teachers had not realized the truth, what happens is that when you work for decades in spirituality, it seems that at some point you make the decision that you are enlightened by autosuggestion, and others believe you and we have a teacher. people who have really realized the truth are usually not teachers, since it is something that cannot be taught. 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

most teachers had not realized the truth, what happens is that when you work for decades in spirituality, it seems that at some point you make the decision that you are enlightened by autosuggestion, and others believe you and we have a teacher. people who have really realized the truth are usually not teachers, since it is something that cannot be taught. 

Interesting point.   But I can tell you that most enlightened beings do not need psychedelics.    This is because they are already gifted.   Leo is an interesting case indeed.   He was gifted with intelligence and intuition but he was not gifted spiritually.  He needed stronger tools then meditation.   Most masters  require little to no tools.  I meditated for two weeks if that.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I meditated for two weeks if that.

Let's try to define the thing. the truth is that we are an unlimited well of total intelligence, total love. limitless wealth. or what is the same, absolutely nothing. the nothingness that is flowing holiness. you recognize yourself completely in infinity, you were always that and you had forgotten. you are home again and your home is total existence. It is as if they make a hole in your chest where you look out to infinity. realizing this constantly, imo is enlightenment. anything else is misery, and something pushes you to find a solution to your misery. So you say you had an enlightenment experience after 2 weeks of meditating. and then? The hole got closed? What did you do to try to escape from the misery?

 

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's try to define the thing. the truth is that we are an unlimited well of total intelligence, total love. limitless wealth. or what is the same, absolutely nothing. the nothingness that is flowing holiness. you recognize yourself completely in infinity, you were always that and you had forgotten. you are home again and your home is total existence. It is as if they make a hole in your chest where you look out to infinity. realizing this constantly, imo is enlightenment. anything else is misery, and something pushes you to find a solution to your misery. So you say you had an enlightenment experience after 2 weeks of meditating. and then? The hole got closed? What did you do to try to escape from the misery?

 

There is awakening from this dream.  And then you are awake.  If you are not awake, you are still sleeping. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There is awakening from this dream.  And then you are awake.  If you are not awake, you are still sleeping. 

that is not like that. the metaphor of the dream is very good but it is not exact. what you call the dream is infinity. every spit on the ground is god. reality is magic shining. everything is depth without limit. the human mind tends to superficiality, for survival. enlightenment is to break the crust of ice you walk on and dive and merge with the water. there's nothing like: now i'm awake and i know i'm god imagining reality. everything is one thing, everything is organic, indefinable. Either you do it in real time, or you're skating on the ice crust

 

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

that is not like that. the metaphor of the dream is very good but it is not exact. what you call the dream is infinity. every spit on the ground is god. reality is magic shining. everything is depth without limit. the human mind tends to superficiality, for survival. enlightenment is to break the crust of ice you walk on and dive and merge with the water. there's nothing like: now i'm awake and i know i'm god imagining reality. everything is one thing, everything is organic, indefinable. Either you do it in real time, or you're skating on the ice crust

 

That is beautiful.   But there is also a moment when God wakes up to itself.   A moment when God says "Oh my God.  I am awake.  For the first time. I'm awake,"