Magnus Carlsen opts out of the World Chess Championship 2022.

[mr_engineer]

The way I see it, this is Magnus taking a step out of the rat-race. Because what was driving him was not his greed for success, it was his passion for the game, his intuition, his creativity. 

It looks to me like the chess-world will start moving into Stage Green because of this decision from Magnus. It won't rely on so much cut-throat competition for prize-money and it'll rely on more co-operative endeavors like brand-deals, sponsorship, coaching, chess edutech, etc. 

Thoughts? 

[integral]

Magnus has said many times that all he cares about is winning, it's not about art.

We are a long way before anything transitions to green, The chess world is a highly competitive place like all sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/07/21/magnus-carlsen-gives-up-world-chess-title/

He said that he was bored and doesn't have a lot to gain.

Edited August 1, 2022 by integral

[mr_engineer]

@integral He did say that he'd play if Firouzja won the candidates. Because he would like to play an opponent who is young and inspired and creative. 

And Nakamura thinks that Magnus would play if he won the candidates! Apparently, he's not playing cuz he doesn't want to play against Nepo. 

He is one of the best artists on the chessboard. They call him the 'Mozart of chess'. And he did say in his documentary that his intuition plays a huge role in his games. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by mr_engineer

[integral]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

@integral He did say that he'd play if Firouzja won the candidates. And Nakamura thinks that Magnus would play if he won the candidates! Apparently, he's not playing cuz he doesn't want to play against Nepo. 

lmao well Nepo Is really boring and I wouldn't be surprised if he was so bored he didn't wanna play him. It's not a challenge for him, his personality wants a challenge.

[mr_engineer]

I don't think all he cares about is winning. Cuz a winner would play the WC no matter what! 

For example, a Kasparov or a Bobby Fischer would want to reign the world of chess for as long as they can. Kasparov was the reigning champion for a good 20 years or so. 

It's never happened in the history of the game that a World Champion doesn't defend his title because the rat-race is too much or too boring for him and he's not motivated to do it. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

I don't think all he cares about is winning. Cuz a winner would play the WC no matter what! 

For example, a Kasparov or a Bobby Fischer would want to reign the world of chess for as long as they can. Kasparov was the reigning champion for a good 20 years or so. 

It's never happened in the history of the game that a World Champion doesn't defend his title because the rat-race is too much or too boring for him and he's not motivated to do it. 

You could posit the precise opposite. Bobby Fischer and Kasparov continued to play chess because they loved chess, even though they have already conquered the field they continued with the risk of eventually being beatne.

Magnus Carlson does not love in and of itself, but only winning and being the best. If he stops playing now, his title will never be able to be challenged, and because he doesn't care about chess that much, he can move on from it.

[integral]

2:19 they ask him How he views the game, explaining his mindset art versus winning.

Edited August 1, 2022 by integral

[Danioover9000]

   Was it true that his parents replaced the toy ceiling with a chess board when he was just a baby? Apparently the few chess players who make it as 1% world class have had very early training of chess.

[Bobby_2021]

He is not able to handle the pressure of playing consecutive games.

Too much to lose, too little to gain. I mean, he already proved the point. He is the champion of the world. And people will continue to believe even after he stops defending the world championship.

He decided it was time to step aside as a king, instead of being dethroned as a pleb. Classy move be Magnus.

This has nothing to do with green behaviour. He still loves to see his opponents scramble to find the moves lol. 

[Leo Gura]

Classic chess is just too boring. They should all switch to Fisher Random.

[mr_engineer]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Classic chess is just too boring. They should all switch to Fisher Random.

They do have Fischer Random tournaments from time to time! Kasparov plays in them. 

I think the resistance to making a full switch will be from the opening theoreticians. Who have spent their entire lives researching and mastering one opening. Most of the chess-world hasn't really mastered all the openings in the traditional starting position! When we do that, I think more starting-positions will slowly be introduced. 

If you notice Magnus's objections, they were relative to the time-controls. He said that he wanted a faster time-control to spice things up. But, the World Championship is so traditional and it has such a long-standing legacy that people don't want to let go of it. Change is very slow in chess. I guess things may change now. 

[Leo Gura]

Really, entirely new board games need to be invented. Chess is such a stale game. It could be made much more interesting but people are just conformist about it. Chess pretends to be creative when it really isn't. And honestly it is sad to see grown ass men devoting their entire lives to something as unoriginal as chess. It's like watching a herd of sheep who think they are extremely smart. Reminds me of how science works. It's a stupid endeavor that only a very smart person would fall prey to.

This is basically the case with all sports.

[Yali]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is basically the case with all sports.

All sportsmen are a "herd of sheep"? That's a bold statement to make. I respect athletes for their dedication to their craft. @Leo Gura

[Dryas]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Chess pretends to be creative when it really isn't. And honestly it is sad to see grown ass men devoting their entire lives to something as unoriginal as chess.

I think with chess it’s about a different kind of creativity. The kind where you grind and grind to maybe reach a point in some game where you execute a beautiful, creative move/idea/tactic/strategy. The grind is probably addictive and has ego attached to it but understandable. 

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura Lol!! 

The next thing you know, Leo starts calling the hierarchy of international masters, grandmasters, super-grandmasters and the rating-ladder in and of itself a cult. 

For me, personally, it is a very good hobby. Gives me practice in thinking. I wouldn't do it professionally, though, cuz I don't find it meaningful to find the best move in every position. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Yali said:

All sportsmen are a "herd of sheep"? That's a bold statement to make.

Of course.

The only reason people care about any particular sport is because others around them do.

[mr_engineer]

To all the people saying that it's 'too boring' - in my experience, people don't say that because they see chess as this boring, predictable game that one human has absolute mastery over and is just passing down to the rest of the chess-world. Like our grade-school. It's because it's so complex for them that they personally don't understand it. 

With all due respect, Leo, you're the first reasonable-sounding person I've talked to who thinks that chess is boring. All the other reasonable people I've talked to about this say that it's too complex for them. (And the unreasonable people think it's boring because they just suck at it and don't want to admit it.) But, if your solution to the fact that it's boring is to make Fischer-random a thing, which is also something I haven't heard much of, it's not a very popular opinion, this means that you think it's too simple/simplistic with the same starting-position. In which case, let me assure you - it's not! 

Humanity has not outgrown the first starting position of chess. And there is so much growth happening in chess the way it is right now, it's ridiculous. Computers can't solve it with calculations as deep as 20 or 30 moves. And I mean, calculations into every possible position those many moves deep! 

Edited August 2, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Classic chess is just too boring. They should all switch to Fisher Random.

This is true. But I can't get myself to accept this and play fisher random, which would get players to put their brains to full use instead of blitzing out computer moves.

 

4 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

The next thing you know, Leo starts calling the hierarchy of international masters, grandmasters, super-grandmasters and the rating-ladder in and of itself a cult. 

It is indeed a cult in many ways. Chess players are weird. The players moves pieces on a weird board and accepts certain configurations of pieces as winning and losing etc.

Astoundingly similar to ouija boards and stuff.

I got similar vibes when playing tournaments the first time. The people are quite distinct from the normal culture that it's so obvious that you now belong to some weird cult with it's own rules. 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Chess pretends to be creative when it really isn't.

So true. More than half of the game is computer moves at the world championship level. 

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Really, entirely new board games need to be invented. Chess is such a stale game. It could be made much more interesting but people are just conformist about it. Chess pretends to be creative when it really isn't. And honestly it is sad to see grown ass men devoting their entire lives to something as unoriginal as chess. It's like watching a herd of sheep who think they are extremely smart. Reminds me of how science works. It's a stupid endeavor that only a very smart person would fall prey to.

This is basically the case with all sports.

   Come on, let go of the sport hating.

[Yali]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

The only reason people care about any particular sport is because others around them do.

Yea, many athletes are groomed into their sport but they wouldn’t be able to maintain their work ethic if they weren’t internally motivated and passionate.

@Leo Gura

Edited August 4, 2022 by Yali