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Testosterone and ageing

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Posted (edited)

I was having a conversation with my big brother at the coffee shop this morning about libido and testosterone.  He said to me that the more you grow older (especially in your 20s) your testosterone levels keep increasing. And that what makes your body more muscular and give you a deeper voice,  face hair and body hair ,and increasing sex drive .

But I did research it ..and found all the articles and studies show that testosterone levels reach its peak at the age of 18 or 19. And that explains why teenagers are horny all the time .but then according to my research, testosterone levels begin to decrease as you age even in your 20s. So who's right ? Does testosterone increase with age or decrease? 

Edited by Someone here

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Yes testosterone levels decline with age which is why some men choose to undergo TRT after 50s. 

Main role of testosterone in your body is for reproductive purposes, spermatogenesis, maintenance of erection and sperm motility and to maintain primal sexual characteristics, once you are past reproductive age, natural selection kicks in and you lose the ability to reproduce. Same way women lose gonadal oestrogen production post-menopausal, there is no need to reproduce any longer. 

Wanting muscle and stuff like that, which is associated with testosterone these days is a modern invention, evolution is still driven by the survival of species and once your reproductive window is done, evolution does not care about you anymore and your body starts ageing and losing its primal sexual features as well as its vigour. Even longevity is a modern thing, humans would rarely live past reproductive prime in ancient times. 


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32 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Yes testosterone levels decline with age which is why some men choose to undergo TRT after 50s. 

Main role of testosterone in your body is for reproductive purposes, spermatogenesis, maintenance of erection and sperm motility and to maintain primal sexual characteristics, once you are past reproductive age, natural selection kicks in and you lose the ability to reproduce. Same way women lose gonadal oestrogen production post-menopausal, there is no need to reproduce any longer. 

Wanting muscle and stuff like that, which is associated with testosterone these days is a modern invention, evolution is still driven by the survival of species and once your reproductive window is done, evolution does not care about you anymore and your body starts ageing and losing its primal sexual features as well as its vigour. Even longevity is a modern thing, humans would rarely live past reproductive prime in ancient times. 

 But I have read some studies suggesting that Testosterone decline is not inevitable with age. Older men in excellent health can maintain their hormone levels.

 when you consider all the possible influences, age had no effect on testosterone levels in these very healthy men. It's a separate issue when you consider unhealthy habits like smoking, drinking,eating junk food and never exercising etc. 

By itself, age does not cause a lower testosterone in healthy men, it's more likely that lowering of testosterone is a consequence of illnesses men acquire as they get older, like cardiovascular disease and obesity.

What do you think of that ?


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26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 But I have read some studies suggesting that Testosterone decline is not inevitable with age. Older men in excellent health can maintain their hormone levels.

 when you consider all the possible influences, age had no effect on testosterone levels in these very healthy men. It's a separate issue when you consider unhealthy habits like smoking, drinking,eating junk food and never exercising etc. 

By itself, age does not cause a lower testosterone in healthy men, it's more likely that lowering of testosterone is a consequence of illnesses men acquire as they get older, like cardiovascular disease and obesity.

What do you think of that ?

Sure thing, there is much you can do to slow down that decline such as remaining physically active, lean, keeping healthy BMI and maintaining a decent lean muscle mass but only to a degree. I am yet to conduct a deep dive into the topic myself so perhaps you are right that it is not inevitable in all men. 

There is also a dark side of keeping testosterone too high (especially synthetically) in older age and that is an increased risk of prostate growth through the DHT pathway but the last time I checked, this has not been confirmed. 

Anyway, I think the focus is too much on testosterone and not enough on things like blood sugar management, cholesterol levels, blood pressure, BMI, waste:hip ratio or ApoB, markers that, in my opinion, matter way more once you get pass 50s. 

Rapid decline in testosterone may be caused by a disease state as well and where that happens, it needs to be investigated. Exactly as you said

I am not a huge fan of antiageing because a lot of it is just mechanistic fuckery, marketing and fearmongering but I am a huge fan of healthy ageing rather than falling apart and relying on meds the last 30 years of one's life. That's imo more important than keeping testosterone at certain range. 


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54 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Sure thing, there is much you can do to slow down that decline such as remaining physically active, lean, keeping healthy BMI and maintaining a decent lean muscle mass but only to a degree. I am yet to conduct a deep dive into the topic myself so perhaps you are right that it is not inevitable in all men. 

There is also a dark side of keeping testosterone too high (especially synthetically) in older age and that is an increased risk of prostate growth through the DHT pathway but the last time I checked, this has not been confirmed. 

Anyway, I think the focus is too much on testosterone and not enough on things like blood sugar management, cholesterol levels, blood pressure, BMI, waste:hip ratio or ApoB, markers that, in my opinion, matter way more once you get pass 50s. 

Rapid decline in testosterone may be caused by a disease state as well and where that happens, it needs to be investigated. Exactly as you said

I am not a huge fan of antiageing because a lot of it is just mechanistic fuckery, marketing and fearmongering but I am a huge fan of healthy ageing rather than falling apart and relying on meds the last 30 years of one's life. That's imo more important than keeping testosterone at certain range. 

So Many men in their 40s and 50s and above are taking exogenous (synthetic) testosterone or over-the-counter supplements ..is there any harmful side effects if not administered properly? And what is a healthy alternative?  I know a few like a balanced clean diet ,hitting the gym ,getting enough sleep and sunlight ( vitamin D)etc...but is there anything else ?


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Something hormonally  must be going on with guys continuing into their 20s. It might not be exact testosterone amount, but maybe how your body is able to use it or other factors.

Beard growth is regulated by something called DHT, which is a byproduct of testosterone.

If testosterone peaked at 18 or 19, then you expect a guy's beard would reach its maximum thickness at that age. But I've known plenty of 18 year olds with patchy facial hair that filled out by the time they were 25 or 30. All the guys I know continue to be able to grow thicker and thicker beards into their 20s. 

A 25 year old will also have a deeper voice, more muscle mass, etc than an 18 year old. Even if you take an 18 year old and 25 year old who never work out, the 25 year old will still usually have more bulk than the 18 year old.

I believe your studies that show T starts to drop even in the 20s. But then there is some other mystery factor here that continues to make guys more manly, even after their T starts dropping.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Yarco said:

Something hormonally  must be going on with guys continuing into their 20s. It might not be exact testosterone amount, but maybe how your body is able to use it or other factors.

Beard growth is regulated by something called DHT, which is a byproduct of testosterone.

If testosterone peaked at 18 or 19, then you expect a guy's beard would reach its maximum thickness at that age. But I've known plenty of 18 year olds with patchy facial hair that filled out by the time they were 25 or 30. All the guys I know continue to be able to grow thicker and thicker beards into their 20s. 

A 25 year old will also have a deeper voice, more muscle mass, etc than an 18 year old. Even if you take an 18 year old and 25 year old who never work out, the 25 year old will still usually have more bulk than the 18 year old.

I believe your studies that show T starts to drop even in the 20s. But then there is some other mystery factor here that continues to make guys more manly, even after their T starts dropping.

I think you make a valid points . Yes many boys in their teenage years become more masculine as they age to late 20s . And that can be explained only by increasing in testosterone level . However what's confusing me is I didn't find a single study that says testosterone increase as you age past the age of puberty .

There are rises in testosterone during a boy’s development, which coincide with major brain development. But these don’t happen at the age of 20. 

 

 

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It's one thing to look at the level of testosterone at one snapshot in time. It's another to look at a body that has been under the effects of testosterone for a long period of time. Picture a guy who has been on steroids for 1 month vs. 10 years.

 

21 hours ago, Yarco said:

Even if you take an 18 year old and 25 year old who never work out, the 25 year old will still usually have more bulk than the 18 year old.

This reminded me of a picture that was taken earlier this week of me and my brother 😂:

received_611256570108841.jpeg

I'm 24 and he is 20. Guess who is who 😂


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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@Carl-Richard you are the skinny one :P


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On 06/07/2022 at 4:35 PM, Someone here said:

o Many men in their 40s and 50s and above are taking exogenous (synthetic) testosterone or over-the-counter supplements ..is there any harmful side effects if not administered properly? And what is a healthy alternative?  I know a few like a balanced clean diet ,hitting the gym ,getting enough sleep and sunlight ( vitamin D)etc...but is there anything else ?

There's plenty one can do including everything you listed already. Keeping a healthy BMI, avoiding smoking, alcohol, excessive microplastic exposure and keeping saturated fats and salt low will probably help. 

In terms of synthetic support, you can either have medically administered testosterone replacement therapy or exogenous synthetic growth hormone. They target different systems and are taken at different doses. Where TRT is aimed to maintain basic physiological functions and taken at levels comparable to standard male levels, anabolic steroids are hyperdosed in order to stimulate extreme muscle protein synthesis. 

Both therapies have risks associated with them. There is a potential link between TRT and early-onset heart disease but I've never taken a deep dive into this topic to know the risk: benefit ratio. 

The risk of anabolic steroids is cardiac arrest, prostate cancer & other malignancies due to excessive cell cycle stimulation, sepsis (when guys use dirty needles) and gradual narrowing of arteries because growth factors also stimulate the growth of soft muscle tissue inside tunica media. 

Commit to a life of health & physical activity and you'll be just fine. If you smoke, then stop. If you drink, then don't. Don't become fat and don't become diabetic. Everything else is mostly fluff. 


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14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's one thing to look at the level of testosterone at one snapshot in time. It's another to look at a body that has been under the effects of testosterone for a long period of time. Picture a guy who has been on steroids for 1 month vs. 10 years.

 

This reminded me of a picture that was taken earlier this week of me and my brother 😂:

received_611256570108841.jpeg

I'm 24 and he is 20. Guess who is who 😂

Damn bro you either got mad cake or no cake at all (my guess: Skinny guy so leaning towards brain more than body, interested in this work, apparently a recovering weed addict, forum moderator, life is counter intuitive so you're the puffer)

 

Is it true that Scandinavian days are extremely long during the summer? Balkan gossip 

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46 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

Damn bro you either got mad cake or no cake at all (my guess: Skinny guy so leaning towards brain more than body, interested in this work, apparently a recovering weed addict, forum moderator, life is counter intuitive so you're the puffer)

Big boi with the cake 😂

 

49 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

Is it true that Scandinavian days are extremely long during the summer? Balkan gossip 

That's true. This picture was taken in Spain though :)


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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@Michael569 thanks for the info .

5 hours ago, Michael569 said:

If you smoke, then stop

I wish I could..it's my drug :(


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On 2022-07-07 at 2:00 PM, Carl-Richard said:

received_611256570108841.jpeg

The rumours where really starting to get out of hand this past year, I couldn't bare a minute more without knowing. I was not disappointed. :D

Next we need to see you shred that guitar, shirtless. ^_^

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22 minutes ago, integral said:

The rumours where really starting to get out of hand this past year, I couldn't bare a minute more without knowing. I was not disappointed. 

Next we need to see you shred that guitar, shirtless. ^_^

xD Hahaha careful with that Law of Attraction, clearly that is going to happen too now :D


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Carl-Richard

Quote

 Hahaha careful with that Law of Attraction, clearly that is going to happen too now 

6nw97d.jpg

The physics of hype trains, you got it baby. :ph34r:

Edited by integral

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On 06/07/2022 at 4:15 PM, Someone here said:

But I have read some studies suggesting that Testosterone decline is not inevitable with age. Older men in excellent health can maintain their hormone levels.

Yes. In fact testosterone levels have been falling from generation to generation so that a 70year old in 2000 had the same avg. t levels of a 25y old in 2020.

 

Nutrition

Training

Lifestyle

Supplementation

 

this makes or breaks your health and so your testosterone levels


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