Nivsch

The ego is fine. Removing the ego is the wrong goal.

37 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@gettoefl

That is just some theory you are trying to speak to me, but I am living it. As "I" said there is no sense of self, sense of perceiver or sense of ego left. I don't understand how someone could say that having ego is good thing if at least for me it is complete opposite. Less ego you have the more you will start to be rather than do and that's why it's called as inner being instead of inner doer. Still even saying that you are being is wrong, because there isn't even that.

when you look in the mirror, it that ego or god that is looking back at you

do you eat meals every day? why do you do this?

do you hope that your writing helps others or is it just mental masturbation going on here?

do you wish to be here tomorrow, i mean here chatting

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@gettoefl

Wherever "I" look towards "I" see just perceptions and that is same with the mirror. I don't find "I" or "ego" from the mirror and so shouldn't you. I eat meals, because that is something which is enjoyable and keeps this illusion going on. I write because it is just activity I like doing, but at the same time it is one thing which used to be game I liked to do - to help "others". I wouldn't need tomorrow to happen, but if relatively that would happen I would be extremely happy like I am NOW from this what I have.


Who told you that "others" are real?

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31 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@gettoefl

Wherever "I" look towards "I" see just perceptions and that is same with the mirror. I don't find "I" or "ego" from the mirror and so shouldn't you. I eat meals, because that is something which is enjoyable and keeps this illusion going on. I write because it is just activity I like doing, but at the same time it is one thing which used to be game I liked to do - to help "others". I wouldn't need tomorrow to happen, but if relatively that would happen I would be extremely happy like I am NOW from this what I have.

how did you achieve a shift to an ego free existence

do you expect deeper realisations or do you think you have gone all the way

is today/this moment perfect or what could make it better

what is the best thing about this moment / today

if you don't wake up tonight after going to bed, what do you want the world to know

 

 

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@gettoefl

"I" did achieve it by meditating towards sense of self so many times and so long that it didn't make any sense that "I" would be perception. I guess there are infinite amount of different realizations one can have so absolutely there are things to do. This moment is perfection and the best thing about this moment is maybe that there is nothing that needs to be done. If I wouldn't wake up tomorrow the world wouldn't exist in a sense, but relatively I would want people to understand how beautiful it is just to be.


Who told you that "others" are real?

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18 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Self-transcendence does not come through a weakening of the organism. It comes through the mastery of all domains of life.

Transcendence_Hierarchy.png

When it really done like this it seems ok to me.


☀️ Stage Yellow is to be Green to all the views within YOURSELF.

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19 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@gettoefl

"I" did achieve it by meditating towards sense of self so many times and so long that it didn't make any sense that "I" would be perception. I guess there are infinite amount of different realizations one can have so absolutely there are things to do. This moment is perfection and the best thing about this moment is maybe that there is nothing that needs to be done. If I wouldn't wake up tomorrow the world wouldn't exist in a sense, but relatively I would want people to understand how beautiful it is just to be.

last question, was there a particular moment when everything changed and if so what was the main difference from that point forward, did life change or have things pretty much stayed the same

thanks for answering my questions today - bless you

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@gettoefl

Relatively my life started to be more calm the more ego dissolved. One time when I was running I understood that, while everything "around" "me" was happening automatically, even the body is moving by itself and there is no single thing which someone controls. After that whenever that is under concentration it can be seen that I can just relax while the body does what it does. Even NOW this writing is happening automatically. You can ask more questions and I wouldn't mind.

With love -joNi- 👋🏼


Who told you that "others" are real?

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23 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Nivsch

That sounds that you want to take ego to the "highest" levels and that will not work. From my perspective it seems that the your survival mechanism is so strong that it denies being survival mechanism or otherwise it would be deleted. What do you say about "my" state then, because there is no sense of self, sense of perceiver or sense of ego and "I" am as happy as "I" could. I don't understand how you can say that removing ego is wrong goal, because at least for "me" it gave massive happiness.

Because your purest, unconnectable (language transcended - cannot be put into words) inner-child's desires will keep chasing you until you will be conscious to their presence and listen to them.

And you will also feel unexplainable pain as long as you cant see them clearly enough. Therefore shadow work and authentic self realization are one.

What all this things are?

EGO.

You may say 'no this is not exactly the ego'.

But they are connected to the ego wants, just that these are the most profound wants.

Maybe ego is just a word, but this is not just a word game here but a real issue, because if you underestimate the ego you also suppress your much deeper self expression wants to be uncovered.

Edited by Nivsch

☀️ Stage Yellow is to be Green to all the views within YOURSELF.

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I think you are sort of right, in the sense that a lot of people here (including me) lacking a holistic approach in life. Putting all our stats on spirituality without having a proper foundation can cause some anomalities. Especially some of us young actualizers make this mistake, to unconsciously parrot some of Leo's values and beliefs and then saying "I only care about Truth and enlightenment and nothing else matters".

I think for most us thats a cope. Most of us are lacking a proper normal foundation in life. Very few people is cool with going just for enlightenment and at the same time not caring about other things at all. Even Leo is caring about other stuff as well, and he has a conscious business built up. Leo is still careing about woman, about his business about actualized.org, about this forum and about his channel and about what image he has on the internet.

The other trap some of us falls into, is the "spirituality will solve all my problems trap". Trying to use spirituality and enlightenment work as a copeing mechanism to deal with life, without really faceing with the challenges head on. Doing spiritual work will increase your happiness in life, but there are aspects to life that really can't be skipped without faceing them head on. There is no one technique or method that will help you to solve all your problems at once.

Working on our ego (growing up) part is really important too and can't really be replaced with enlightenment work. Getting more connected to our values, what do we actually want to do, and how do we want to express ourselves in this world.

At the end of the day, until physical death you will have to live with your finite ego self , so then you might as well start working on it .

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You can’t remove the ego forever anyway if you’re walking through day to day life, anyone who thinks that is most definitely delusional. 
Reality is non-dual at the deepest level but that doesn’t deny the validity of the relative, dualistic manifestations that arise and appear on the surface as we currently experience. Ego is a necessary part of that. It is simply that the soul is “behind” that appearance you could say and is deeper than those things. 

The part of the psychological structure of ego that is distorting one’s perception and thus bad is the belief in its seperate-ness from the world around it. That sensation is useful in a day to day practical sense, but if one buys into it as the ultimate truth they are cutting themselves off from the world. There is a time and a place for seperate-ness and a time and place for dropping that, because enlightenment is a negative not a positive addition onto one’s experience. By dropping it you see things as they really are, and you could say that ego is a beautiful part of what makes up that infinite whole. So yes integration into our grounded human experience is necessary whether one likes it or not. 

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@Nivsch This one perspective might be of some value to you. Consider this diagram

flowoflife.jpg

Think of molecules that form cells, single-cell organisms that cooperate on some level and eventually they evolve into multicellular animals, animals that form societies, herds, packs, clans, nations. Lets leave the human herd alone, because it is a loaded question. Think of the cells in your body. If one gets damaged and stops seeing past its own borders, that it is actually a whole larger organism, you, the bigger picture, will call that cancer. And an even bigger picture might call that something else entirely. On each of these steps, there are borders that an ego imagines. The next step transcends those borders.

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.......The ego is the greatest trickster....because even though it isn't real BOY does it feel real. I thank you for this thread because I was ruminating over the no self-concept and this thread reminded me of the power of the ego.

1. The ego does not exist. There is no self. What is the easiest way to understand this? Easy...we will use the example of you going to sleep. When you go to sleep you experience your dream usually from a first person perspective (sometimes I experience it from a third person but you get my point) and you IDENTIFY with that perspective as being YOU and everything else as being other. But when you wake up, you realize that it was ALL YOU. You dreamed and created EVERYTHING.

2. This is how reality works. You are DREAMING your LIFE. But because you have attached yourself to the current perspective you think that is you. As a result through that attachment you create a self or ego and thus you become who you are. Understand that ego always creates story. Ego is always engaged in activity. That the key to discovering yourself is in BEING. Being is stillness, not thinking, not emoting, not doing anything but just stillness. You do it long enough....and the dream will start to reveal itself every so slowly as a dream.  

3. I thank you for this thread.....it reminded me of the illusion of ego as for some reason I was starting to forget.


"Physical Reality is the Manifestation of your Will. If you're not conscious of that then you're not truly awake." -Leo Gura- The Super Conductor

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From an IFS perspective, you want to treat all parts of you with compassion, and unburden them from extreme roles, whilst developing connection with them. However, also you want to become increasingly self-led. I suppose that is a similar idea of transcendence to traditional spirituality. The IFS defined self can be compared to God to my opinion. So you can also see it as being increasingly god led.

So, there is an integration of transcendence, acceptance, connection and liberation.

Edited by Ulax

No bad parts. All parts welcome.

Compassion/ understanding with boundaries.

Life is art.

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god see ego wherever he go

because ego is god's game of playing finite

just like when i dream at night, i kit out a dream character to see and engage the world

i can dream lucidly then i know ego is nothing but the point whence the dream emanates

so just as ego enjoys seeing ego everywhere so god enjoy seeing god everywhere disguised as ego

god well knows the left hand is part of its body but the left hand may not know it is part of god's body

god doesn't try to persuade the left hand to give up its false identity

ego will give up the illusion when it is ready

until then surf is up and beer is in the cooler

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On 13.5.2022 at 0:28 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Self-transcendence does not come through a weakening of the organism. It comes through the mastery of all domains of life.

Transcendence_Hierarchy.png

Also I think that you are not supposed to ever think about the yellow triangle, because it has to develop spontaneously when the time is right. If you try to reach it consciously this is always going to be too fast/too soon in my opinion.

Edited by Nivsch

☀️ Stage Yellow is to be Green to all the views within YOURSELF.

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1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Also I think that you are not supposed to ever think about the yellow triangle, because it has to develop spontaneously when the time is right. If you try to reach it consciously this is always going to be too fast/too soon in my opinion.

Yup. Up and through, not up and out :) 

 


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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There is ambiguity about the term "ego" but it most commonly does NOT apply to the unconscious mind.  It applies to the conscious mind.  Jung refers to the integrated conscious-unconscious as The Self.

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