Leo, should I pursue enlightenment first or dating first?

[Loba]

@Zeroguy I am!  I'm treating my small self with the love and attention she needed, as well as my body with the daily care it needs, and journaling to understand my emotions, with that, medication, meditation, healthy food and exercise, and everything is getting better. 

Thanks dude, you went through that process, too, huh?

[Zeroguy]

@Loba Love you!

Yes I did.Still am to some extent.Narc mother in my case.Blacksheep role.

[Loba]

@Zeroguy Aww thanks man! <3

That's great to to hear, yeah it is a lifelong journey but in a way we luck out being the blacksheep because we can see the truth and we are given the option to heal, whereas narcs, sadly, they can't heal.  My mom isn't a narc, she has bpd so she is kinder than a narc, would not wish a narc parent on my worst enemy.

[Breakingthewall]

@Loba bpd is pure love compared to the horrible narc (bpd are very difficult people too of course, i had a gf). i think that even if i were fully enlightened, like buddha or more, i will always retain some of the sadness of having a narc twisting my life since childhood. poor narcs, they are the most unfortunate beings of creation, strange, crazy, vampire of love, aggressive, harmful. having a narc father is quite an adventure, getting out of the labyrinth, an achievement

Edited March 6, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Loba]

@Breakingthewall True, my mom has bpd but she actually has empathy and can love people, it's just the controlling aspect that I have a hard time with and she was violent when I was little until my teens, and grew out of it.  It messed me up, but not like a narc, I've never met a genuine narcissist in my life before, not a real one - only people labeled as it by begrudged peeps.  But the actual disorder sounds like hell; no empathy and needing to be "witnessed" to feel one is alive does sound horrible.  I feel bad for narcs, mostly because I have not had to be around them, I've just heard of the symptoms and when they say it can't be cured, I feel bad for them - a terminal mental illness.

On that note, I might have bpd in relation to relationships, but not affecting friendships or acquaintances.  I'm not sure because I've only had one long term relationship and the other person was very unhealthy so I don't know if he just made all my future interactions this kind of  "split behaviour", but I see my mom's behaviour in myself when it comes to men.  I'm working on it, it seems to be going away.

Hmmmn....  What was it like for you growing up with one and how did you know you were dealing with a narcissist?  I've heard it's like, really weird, to put it mildly.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Loba said:

What was it like for you growing up with one and how did you know you were dealing with a narcissist?  I've heard it's like, really weird, to put it mildly.

narc is a label, but yes, something like that. the narc cannot be healed because at the core of his being there is a huge bleeding wound. it is a being made of pure anxiety. but I guess he could be cured if he really wants to. a narc like what I have seen has a very short life, the effort to maintain it is tremendous, you have to put up with that performance with various addictions, self-deception all the time without relaxing for a second, etc. a true curse for those who suffer from it. Growing up with something like this close by fills you with fear, confusion, with barriers, with insecurity, but courage is against fear, so at the end can be an advantage. Even the animals of the house got crazy and they had to be euthanized within a year, but the dog loved him.

the problem with the narc is that it can inspire love. They occupies all the space, and it hurts you without you realizing it. It's like those insects that inoculate you with an anesthetic to be able to suck your blood. 

you are granted the privilege of being close to the great sun, in exchange for surrendering your self-esteem... vampirism ?

Edited March 7, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Carl-Richard

Remember that desires are only outcome of unacceptance of this moment and when you love present moment no matter what the desires cease to exist. My opinion is that you shouldn't even fulfill your dating desires when in relationship, because that way you become too needy and the whole relationship is unhealthy and most like it won't last for a long.

Your life is desire. Undesire is death.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

When everything is automatical I wouldn't call that desire anymore, but my question is that how what you said had anything to do with my response. I agree with these little "pointers" you try to give, but my point was just that you don't need "I" or even "other" to relationship.

It's not like after enlightenment you would stop doing anything, but how I see it is that you start to do even more things, because you see beauty in everything. My approach is that you should awaken in one way or other one asap and then enjoy beautiful life without constant thoughts of things you "need" to do.

Enlightenment does not rob your life purpose, but if done correctly it boosts it and makes it even more clear. It's skill of making things important and meaningfull even if it would be unimportant and meaningless in absolute level.

Remember that the "game" on this forum is not to make as many responses as possible, but to have high quality in every response and topic opener. One rule in this forum is that topic starters with little content is being locked, but with this logic you should lock yourself from answering, because you are doing it right NOW.

Short funny-smart responses are great in meme/joke section, but they have little use in actually helping someone so I would suggest you to add little more content to answers other than one sentence. Vink Vink there were and are still people who do the same so please think again your point of answering, thank you : )

 

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

When everything is automatical I wouldn't call that desire anymore, but my question is that how what you said had anything to do with my response. I agree with these little "pointers" you try to give, but my point was just that you don't need "I" or even "other" to relationship.

It's not like after enlightenment you would stop doing anything, but how I see it is that you start to do even more things, because you see beauty in everything. My approach is that you should awaken in one way or other one asap and then enjoy beautiful life without constant thoughts of things you "need" to do.

Enlightenment does not rob your life purpose, but if done correctly it boosts it and makes it even more clear. It's skill of making things important and meaningfull even if it would be unimportant and meaningless in absolute level.

The premise of "doing" itself doesn't make sense when you're in a state of non-doership. When you can't do anything, you can't date. Simple as that  

 

26 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Remember that the "game" on this forum is not to make as many responses as possible, but to have high quality in every response and topic opener. One rule in this forum is that topic starters with little content is being locked, but with this logic you should lock yourself from answering, because you are doing it right NOW.

Short funny-smart responses are great in meme/joke section, but they have little use in actually helping someone so I would suggest you to add little more content to answers other than one sentence. Vink Vink there were and are still people who do the same so please think again your point of answering, thank you : )

Even if you read 500 books on spirituality and you don't wake up, you will still ask questions. This is why Nahm's style of communication is unironically genius.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

Proper communication through words always has some hidden "premises" and it is even impossible to avoid all of them and this is the point where the one who is receiving the message must try to understand what the other one wanted to point out and not listen/read everything as it was written/ spoken. 

Quote

you don't wake up

HAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!! you got it wrong, because there is no one to wake up. AAHAHAHAHAH so hilarious  (this was joke)

As you can see even your messages have hidden "premises", but all I should do is to try to understand what was tried to be communicated rather than address immaterialities. That is what healthy and working commication is - trying honestly understand what the other one is trying to say and not point all seemingly wrong "premises".

And I don't know how you see this conversation, but at least for me I understand these things of everything is automatical, because there is no you, only thing exists is this movie so others don't exist and point of life is to be happy which means to accept present moment as it is. I wasn't originally even talking about these things, but I just wanted to point out that enlightenment does not stop you from dating. (yeah there is no I/you to date, but just try to understand what was being said and don't go for wordplay)

 

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

but I just wanted to point out that enlightenment does not stop you from dating. (yeah there is no I/you to date, but just try to understand what was being said and don't go for wordplay)

and I'm saying it literally stops you from dating. You can't date when you're dead.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

Remember that the movie can still present content of dating even if there is no one to date or no one to date with. It's not like when so called ego death or end of sense of self happens that after this the movie won't play anymore. That is the main problem newbies have, because they think that ego death means that whole show cease to exist, but that is not the case and phrasing it like you do it right NOW can be pretty confusicing to newbies.

That was why I originally started saying that enlightenment does not stop dating possibility, because otherwise people would think that after enlightenment there is nothing to do and everything is useless. That is depression, nihilism and deception. It does not matter what happens, but still the point of anything is to have fun.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Kksd74628
corrected one word

[Breakingthewall]

48 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

. That is what healthy and working commication is - trying honestly understand what the other one is trying to say and not point all seemingly wrong "premises".

Man you don't understand nothing. It's not about any of that, the goal here is to show how smart you are, and that I'm deeper than you (poor guy). with the time you've been here you should have learned it

[Kksd74628]

@Breakingthewall

Yeah I see that many people are trying to show off here, because that is one more thing they need to do in order to grow. I am here just trying to make spirituality less painful for people by suggesting people to use simpler way to communicate. If you know how much you know then you should know that you don't need to show that to anyone, because you know it already : )

[Carl-Richard]

48 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Remember that the movie can still present content of dating even if there is no one to date or no one to date with. It's not like when so called ego death or end of sense of self happens that after this the movie won't play anymore. That is the main problem newbies have, because they think that ego death means that whole show cease to exist, but that is not the case and phrasing it like you do it right NOW can be pretty confusicing to newbies.

That was why I originally started saying that enlightenment does not stop dating possibility, because otherwise people would think that after enlightenment there is nothing to do and everything is useless. That is depression, nihilism and deception. It does not matter what happens, but still the point of anything is to have fun.

"The relative self keeps existing but you're not identified with it" is an accurate statement, but it doesn't capture the seriousness of the situation. It makes it seem like it's something trivial that you can shrug off. No, from the perspective of the relative self who transitions into this state, it feels like absolute death, and the ramifications are obvious: you will be dead forever and you will never come back, or even more accurately, you will be perpetually dying. Of course the upshot to that means immense bliss and peace, but it's by no means a joke. You're framing it as a failure to communicate while it's more a difference of emphasis. Enlightenment is not a joke. When you're given the opportunity to surrender, the question of dating or not dating should've been decided a long time ago.

[Byun Sean]

Which one feels more motivating right now?

 

If not why not pursue both?

You should look at consciousness work and relationships as long term projects that involve transforming you into your greatest version. Thus, you don't need to settle or choose one or the other. You can have it all! 

 

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

Maybe you have had hard time in "spiritual path", but that does not mean that it is same for everyone. For some it is easier to accept that everything happens by its own and there is no you which is controlling anything. I was jogging 6 months ago and I was watching that everything around me is changing and moving by its own and then I was oh fuck even this running is "outside" which is happening by its own.

I have always been extremely stable and for me all these things were relatively easy to accept, because I really wanted to know and it was one of my games I wanted to play. Game of knowing more and having deeper knowledge. One reason for suffering is misunderstanding and without that there would be nothing to be feared. No-self and illusion of self both are movies and only thing that happens in ego death is change in movie and that's it.

It's only you which is making it big thing and when there is you left to make it big thing then it is not being taken to all the way just saying. One important thing is to trust the process, be curious of what happens and have smile on the face while doing spirituality, because it is completely same as doing dating. In dating you also could fear that something bad happens, but that is only a thought and you should go and see what happens if anything  

 

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Maybe you have had hard time in "spiritual path", but that does not mean that it is same for everyone.

Yeah I don't like death.

[Kksd74628]

@Carl-Richard

I wouldn't phrase it like that or it inevitably sounds wrong and bad. What "ego death" just is, is completely deleting sense of self from the movie. You make it sound so scary and hard stuff and yeah it can be for some people, but that is not what it for real is. I mean, if you like having control then it can be hard for you, but for me I kind of always wanted to just be and relax in automatical process so for me it actually was good thing.

[Carl-Richard]

46 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Carl-Richard

I wouldn't phrase it like that or it inevitably sounds wrong and bad. What "ego death" just is, is completely deleting sense of self from the movie. You make it sound so scary and hard stuff and yeah it can be for some people, but that is not what it for real is. I mean, if you like having control then it can be hard for you, but for me I kind of always wanted to just be and relax in automatical process so for me it actually was good thing.

Good for you.